Commentary on The Journey from the Basement

[timsk]

Gentlemen,
Allow me to make what I hope is a constructive suggestion . . .

In an earlier post to this thread I said that I (personally) don't see any value in live calls. This thread is one of the reasons why, as anyone following it will surely have noticed that the core contributors to it - most of whom are advocates of live calls - are arguing with one another about what constitutes a 'live call'.

So, I suggest that those of you who are committed to the concept of live calls start a fresh thread where you can thrash out a 'once and for all definition' that everyone can understand and agree upon. If, and it's a mighty big if, FoMo, tar, Lúidín, hhiusa, Lord Flasheart et al can all find common ground on this one point, then the call for live calls may have a future. Unless and until some sort of consensus is reached about the what must (or must not) be in place for someone to claim to make live calls, then I fear these arguments are set to continue for a long time to come.
Tim.

 

[tar]

Gentlemen,
Allow me to make what I hope is a constructive suggestion . . .

In an earlier post to this thread I said that I (personally) don't see any value in live calls. This thread is one of the reasons why, as anyone following it will surely have noticed that the core contributors to it - most of whom are advocates of live calls - are arguing with one another about what constitutes a 'live call'.

So, I suggest that those of you who are committed to the concept of live calls start a fresh thread where you can thrash out a 'once and for all definition' that everyone can understand and agree upon. If, and it's a mighty big if, FoMo, tar, Lúidín, hhiusa, Lord Flasheart et al can all find common ground on this one point, then the call for live calls may have a future. Unless and until some sort of consensus is reached about the what must (or must not) be in place for someone to claim to make live calls, then I fear these arguments are set to continue for a long time to come.
Tim.

You are kidding Tim you want another grade Z discussion , its a waste of time no way going to get involved .

Re the benefits of live calls , it may sharpen your own skills hence you are not trading alone and there's someone watching you - give it a try - , so the main benefits are for the caller himself not the audience , although they may get an idea or 2 and they may learn from others mistakes as well . If live calls dont have any value to the caller nor to the audience then other trading discussions dont have any value either that goes without saying .

 

[Lúidín]

seems fine to me tim..as you said..would bring a bit of reality to posted live trades..good suggestion

 

[hhiusa]

Do you even read your own posts hhiusa , who is really angry here

A live call consists of this : live entry , follow up , live exit .

Live exit alone is useless - cherry picking - , you come here and post a live exit when you are profitable thats not a live call . Sorry .

No. It is pretty clear that you do not read well. I never said post a live exit alone. Pay attention. Stop focusing upon the defintion of live.

If you were serious about following it up with me, then you would know if the price was reached chances are I bought some. If it was not reached, then I did not. I post the buy order with the sell order later.

Wow. I will translate for you. buy order = entry. sell order = exit. I posted both.

 

[tar]

Wow. I will translate for you. buy order = entry. sell order = exit. I posted both.

Thats ok but without a follow up for your open positions which are in the red then the whole process is useless , hence you buy and hold , coming back later with an exit for a profitable stock is cherry picking . You need to follow up on all your trades live .

 

[Forexmospherian]

You are kidding Tim you want another grade Z discussion , its a waste of time no way going to get involved .

Re the benefits of live calls , it may sharpen your own skills hence you are not trading alone and there's someone watching you - give it a try - , so the main benefits are for the caller himself not the audience , although they may get an idea or 2 and they may learn from others mistakes as well . If live calls dont have any value to the caller nor to the audience then other trading discussions dont have any value either that goes without saying .

Hi Tim

Basically any trader entering a trade on a broker platform is making a real live call

The price is at the time of entry and then set in stone - and if its on a live broker account then it will mean the trader will either be exiting with a profit or a loss ( Ok could be just b/e) but 95% of the time a change in the capital account balance.

My problem is many show previous statements - and they have been altered or tampered with ( classic one last year was Mr Fox and his 1 million live account and him making vast amounts of money every day).

A more recent one by 10% club was challenged - it was a proper statement for December - but many could just not believe it as it showed a 30% increase on a live 100K capital account.

So statements alone or even broker entry slips etc are not the answer in isolation

For now I am the odd one out - as I will not show the forum my own live account(s) but the nearest trader who his closest to proving he his trading ongoing his Tar - he calls in advance and even informs us of his wins and losses along with a broker slip. I should imagine his account is live money - whether he trades on 1 lot or 50 lots a pip or point is not really our business and he is profitable.

I think the last thing we all want to see is the "Blue Peter trade" - one done from yesterday or last week with no mention of it at the time and then backed up with a dodgy statement - when the trader might have both bought and sold at the same time on 2 accounts and chose to only show the winning trade.

I am sure Tar and many other traders - including myself are very wary of traders with a no stop strategy - ( loads on copy site) and they end up showing loads of winning trades making say 1000 + pips or point as a month and not closing the losing trades and not showing them - which might be over 2000+ pips/ points underwater and sinking more.

There is common ground - Both tar and myself have kept our calls going for over 6 months plus in a trading journal and both of us have a working stop policy and so any other traders can see - it is possible to make a winning strategy and to make money from trading - if not every session or day - over the course of a week or month or quarter etc

I personally know of one very well know trader who is also a vendor and sell courses who trades live on his website and as taken a live 10k to 100k challenge with 2 years in front of an audience along with showing his statements on his website ( Charlie Burton - the trader featured on the BBC programme)

He dedicated a live money account for proving to his clients he can talk the talk and walk the walk - and well done to him.

Neither tar or myself are vendors and therefore I don't thinks its anybody's business whether we make £1k a month or £25k a month - surely that's private and confidential -

Maybe we can do a new live account challenge on a copy site with all the stats as mentioned by Lord F - its another way of showing whether you are a profitable consistent trader - or one that's blow's up every 3 or 6 months ??

By taking live trades on a forum - it up's the anti - shows you have confidence in your method and places you under more pressure - I find that good - its shows you are willing to accept you might be wrong - I am wrong most days on some of my scalps - I accept it - its part of trading - but basically most days I make my target - all down to consistency - whether I have just 1 loss or 5 losses .

I think its good Luidin / hhiusa / Tar / metrader etc are making live calls - whether pending or market and telling us about them in advance or as they happen

Long many it continue

Regards


F

 

[hhiusa]

Gentlemen,
Allow me to make what I hope is a constructive suggestion . . .

In an earlier post to this thread I said that I (personally) don't see any value in live calls. This thread is one of the reasons why, as anyone following it will surely have noticed that the core contributors to it - most of whom are advocates of live calls - are arguing with one another about what constitutes a 'live call'.

So, I suggest that those of you who are committed to the concept of live calls start a fresh thread where you can thrash out a 'once and for all definition' that everyone can understand and agree upon. If, and it's a mighty big if, FoMo, tar, Lúidín, hhiusa, Lord Flasheart et al can all find common ground on this one point, then the call for live calls may have a future. Unless and until some sort of consensus is reached about the what must (or must not) be in place for someone to claim to make live calls, then I fear these arguments are set to continue for a long time to come.
Tim.

I agree. However, it is ridiculous for people to argue about what is a live trade. I have been trying to get people to stop focusing upon the definition and just post something. Everyone is too buy arguing about what people are doing wrong, instead of stepping up and demonstrating a trade, any trade.

I made it pretty simple. Let's stop hiding behind defintions and do something. Why is it so hard for people to post a picture in the live trades thread?

IB lists the financial instrument, the cost, the price, the exchange, trade value, time, order ID, exch. exec ID, order exec ID. These are all that is required. Who cares about the "live" part. If you are fabricating the parts in blue, then you are pretty inventive. @Forexmospherian talks about a "blue peter trade". I find statements from IB to be very reliable as they list so much information that it would be hard to doctor the information and make everything line up. It lists everything I have asked for in this paragraph and then some. I understand @Forexmospherian's concern about blue peter trades. They should be pretty obvious when they occur.

I am partially in agree with @Forexmospherian. If someone is going to post a statement not a trade, then there should be at least 3-6 months worth of trades. However, that should be a separate issue and a separate thread. I did not want this to be a dick measuring contest. Just post some trades. I do not care if you post the one winner you have out of 20 losers.

 

[tar]

IB lists the financial instrument, the cost, the price, the exchange, trade value, time, order ID, exch. exec ID, order exec ID. These are all that is required. Who cares about the "live" part.

lol why you need all these , not everyone is trading with IB , we mostly trade cfds and forex so there is no exchange , what exactly is gained from order ID and exec ID ? You see you are the one who is argumentative . Why stop here add your account # and your full name and notarize the statement by a notary public , otherwise its not a live call !

BTW many members here including flash and fugz dont consider a call without a SL a live call , and thus your calls are not live what a shame ...

 

[hhiusa]

lol why you need all these , not everyone is trading with IB , we mostly trade cfds and forex so there is no exchange , what exactly is gained from order ID and exec ID ? You see you are the one who is argumentative . Why stop here add your account # and your full name and notarize the statement by a notary public , otherwise its not a live call !

BTW many members here including flash and fugz dont consider a call without a SL a live call , and thus your calls are not live what a shame ...

Again. grow up. stop bickering. post something worthwhile. Not everyone has to participate. Only those that are willing to post trades should open their mouth.

There is still something listed in the exchange column for a forex trade even thought the market is decentralized. IB lists theirs as IDEALPRO and FXCONV. I will post a forex trade. There is still a lot of information given for a cfd trade.

@Lúidín has shown an example of an option trade and a futures trade. It has all the requisite features. financial instrument, the cost, the price, the exchange, trade value, time, order ID, exch. exec ID, order exec ID.

All brokers will have this information. All brokerage firms are trading the same US market. All those exchanges list the same information. There is nothing saying you have to participate if you only trade CFDs.

 

[Lúidín]

Hi Tim

Basically any trader entering a trade on a broker platform is making a real live call

The price is at the time of entry and then set in stone - and if its on a live broker account then it will mean the trader will either be exiting with a profit or a loss ( Ok could be just b/e) but 95% of the time a change in the capital account balance.

My problem is many show previous statements - and they have been altered or tampered with ( classic one last year was Mr Fox and his 1 million live account and him making vast amounts of money every day).

A more recent one by 10% club was challenged - it was a proper statement for December - but many could just not believe it as it showed a 30% increase on a live 100K capital account.

So statements alone or even broker entry slips etc are not the answer in isolation

For now I am the odd one out - as I will not show the forum my own live account(s) but the nearest trader who his closest to proving he his trading ongoing his Tar - he calls in advance and even informs us of his wins and losses along with a broker slip. I should imagine his account is live money - whether he trades on 1 lot or 50 lots a pip or point is not really our business and he is profitable.

I think the last thing we all want to see is the "Blue Peter trade" - one done from yesterday or last week with no mention of it at the time and then backed up with a dodgy statement - when the trader might have both bought and sold at the same time on 2 accounts and chose to only show the winning trade.

I am sure Tar and many other traders - including myself are very wary of traders with a no stop strategy - ( loads on copy site) and they end up showing loads of winning trades making say 1000 + pips or point as a month and not closing the losing trades and not showing them - which might be over 2000+ pips/ points underwater and sinking more.

There is common ground - Both tar and myself have kept our calls going for over 6 months plus in a trading journal and both of us have a working stop policy and so any other traders can see - it is possible to make a winning strategy and to make money from trading - if not every session or day - over the course of a week or month or quarter etc

I personally know of one very well know trader who is also a vendor and sell courses who trades live on his website and as taken a live 10k to 100k challenge with 2 years in front of an audience along with showing his statements on his website ( Charlie Burton - the trader featured on the BBC programme)

He dedicated a live money account for proving to his clients he can talk the talk and walk the walk - and well done to him.

Neither tar or myself are vendors and therefore I don't thinks its anybody's business whether we make £1k a month or £25k a month - surely that's private and confidential -

Maybe we can do a new live account challenge on a copy site with all the stats as mentioned by Lord F - its another way of showing whether you are a profitable consistent trader - or one that's blow's up every 3 or 6 months ??

By taking live trades on a forum - it up's the anti - shows you have confidence in your method and places you under more pressure - I find that good - its shows you are willing to accept you might be wrong - I am wrong most days on some of my scalps - I accept it - its part of trading - but basically most days I make my target - all down to consistency - whether I have just 1 loss or 5 losses .

I think its good Luidin / hhiusa / Tar / metrader etc are making live calls - whether pending or market and telling us about them in advance or as they happen

Long many it continue

Regards


F

see my live option trades this moring for cl and es..now in the red..which i have no bother showing..i said the cl trade was high risk before i got filled..and it still is..but i am willing to take on the risk..and might even take on some more risk depending on what happens

how do expect to show anyone how you trade if you dont do as i done..it must be a live call..meaning right at the present time..and it must be backed up with broker details..which i showed for my 3 option trades

the outcome is irrelevant..we are talking about posting live trades..nor pretending we are someone..or something..we are not

common sense!

 

[Forexmospherian]

see my live option trades this moring for cl and es..now in the red..which i have no bother showing..i said the cl trade was high risk before i got filled..and it still is..but i am willing to take on the risk..and might even take on some more risk depending on what happens

how do expect to show anyone how you trade if you dont do as i done..it must be a live call..meaning right at the present time..and it must be backed up with broker details..which i showed for my 3 option trades

the outcome is irrelevant..we are talking about posting live trades..nor pretending we are someone..or something..we are not

common sense!

Hi Luidin

Marked the question - bold and underlined

Easy

Here's one of the examples of today on the EU

This comment appeared on my thread at 12 13 pm ( I typed in at 12 12pm

EU

Approx 30 mins from above comments

So far scalp buy above 45 as made 0757 and still rising

As mentioned - 0760 area is a R

Price was at 0757 and I said the R ( resistance or reversal ) was at 0760

At 12 15/16 pm it stalled at 0760/1 and it was a scalp sell

It dropped then over 30 pips over the next hr or so

All my followers know my stop size is 7 pips max - normally 3 -5 pips on the EU

I then produce a chart of trade in motion

I then indicate where support is and next times to buy

All my followers know of my key times in the hour to scalp

Maybe - if I tried harder I could wipe everybody's bum as well - but nobody as requested that yet ;-)
#
We risk 5 pips to make 20 - 30+ pips

Accuracy is Key no drawdown or as small as possible

This happens anything from 10 to 30 times a day over a 10 hr session - I cover 4 to 6 hrs - time spent on charts most days under 2 to 3 hrs of actual trading

Intraday is about detail - its possible to work in the "noise" and coalface and make money - has you say - no books really advises that - but then again the trade do not want clever so and so's working out the puzzle in that much detail ;-)

Everyday I can produce calls in advance of moves

I even advise traders my key times to look for scalp crossover set up's - again in advance

To support the thread - there are between 2 and 4 other traders who do show their statements as well as sometimes making calls etc

Regards

F

 

[MajorMagnuM]

I agree. However, it is ridiculous for people to argue about what is a live trade. I have been trying to get people to stop focusing upon the definition and just post something. Everyone is too buy arguing about what people are doing wrong, instead of stepping up and demonstrating a trade, any trade.

I made it pretty simple. Let's stop hiding behind defintions and do something. Why is it so hard for people to post a picture in the live trades thread?

IB lists the financial instrument, the cost, the price, the exchange, trade value, time, order ID, exch. exec ID, order exec ID. These are all that is required. Who cares about the "live" part. If you are fabricating the parts in blue, then you are pretty inventive. @Forexmospherian talks about a "blue peter trade". I find statements from IB to be very reliable as they list so much information that it would be hard to doctor the information and make everything line up. It lists everything I have asked for in this paragraph and then some. I understand @Forexmospherian's concern about blue peter trades. They should be pretty obvious when they occur.

I am partially in agree with @Forexmospherian. If someone is going to post a statement not a trade, then there should be at least 3-6 months worth of trades. However, that should be a separate issue and a separate thread. I did not want this to be a dick measuring contest. Just post some trades. I do not care if you post the one winner you have out of 20 losers.

if it does develop into this please PM me as i reckon i will win by a fair margin

 

[hhiusa]

if it does develop into this please PM me as i reckon i will win by a fair margin

Win what besides a dick measuring contest? Conflating your ego with your self-worth.

 

[hhiusa]

Why is it so hard for people to post a picture in the live trades thread?

IB lists the financial instrument, the cost, the price, the exchange, trade value, time, order ID, exch. exec ID, order exec ID. These are all that is required. Who cares about the "live" part. Again put up or shut up.

 

[mike.]

Why is it so hard for people to post a picture in the live trades thread?

.

Have you not figured it out yet ????

Nobody likes your attitude and arrogance, ( apart from luidin )

So i would imagine the thread to die off pretty soon.

No offence, just saying what others are thinking.

 

[Lúidín]

Hi Luidin

Marked the question - bold and underlined

Easy

Here's one of the examples of today on the EU

This comment appeared on my thread at 12 13 pm ( I typed in at 12 12pm




Price was at 0757 and I said the R ( resistance or reversal ) was at 0760

At 12 15/16 pm it stalled at 0760/1 and it was a scalp sell

It dropped then over 30 pips over the next hr or so

All my followers know my stop size is 7 pips max - normally 3 -5 pips on the EU

I then produce a chart of trade in motion

I then indicate where support is and next times to buy

All my followers know of my key times in the hour to scalp

Maybe - if I tried harder I could wipe everybody's bum as well - but nobody as requested that yet ;-)
#
We risk 5 pips to make 20 - 30+ pips

Accuracy is Key no drawdown or as small as possible

This happens anything from 10 to 30 times a day over a 10 hr session - I cover 4 to 6 hrs - time spent on charts most days under 2 to 3 hrs of actual trading

Intraday is about detail - its possible to work in the "noise" and coalface and make money - has you say - no books really advises that - but then again the trade do not want clever so and so's working out the puzzle in that much detail ;-)

Everyday I can produce calls in advance of moves

I even advise traders my key times to look for scalp crossover set up's - again in advance

To support the thread - there are between 2 and 4 other traders who do show their statements as well as sometimes making calls etc

Regards

F

no one is disputing anyones ability..all is asked is to post details of a live trade..it really is that simple!

 

[Lúidín]

Why is it so hard for people to post a picture in the live trades thread?

IB lists the financial instrument, the cost, the price, the exchange, trade value, time, order ID, exch. exec ID, order exec ID. These are all that is required. Who cares about the "live" part. Again put up or shut up.

i really don't know..trading involves winners and losers..i am losing today..nothing to hide..my trades are posted..but i am not a bit worried bout it..maybe others are!

 

[tar]

Classic lulz ! After all this discussion hh ends it with this bit : "Who cares about the "live" part." ! :clap:

 

[hhiusa]

Classic lulz ! After all this discussion hh ends it with this bit : "Who cares about the "live" part." ! :clap:

Exactly. Post a trade confirmation. It is obviously not live as you are not streaming a video of you trading. You have not posted anything worthwhile in fact.

Stop getting hung up on semantics and put your money where your mouth is.

 

[Lúidín]

Have you not figured it out yet ????

Nobody likes your attitude and arrogance, ( apart from luidin )

So i would imagine the thread to die off pretty soon.

No offence, just saying what others are thinking.

i neither like nor dislike anyone..except the germans..and i said the reason why

i say things as i see them