The Journey from the Basement

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Rognvald said:
Glenn

Well posted but this ("...few people can undergo the “starving artist” phase of skill-building. ") should really read


"...few people can or are prepared to undergo the “starving artist” phase of skill-building. "

I am sure that if Socrates sees this he will wish to comment
Yes, quite so, and in addition to my post above I will tell you that the price in life terms is huge. Years, without seeing a film, or a day out, or a nightclub or a theatre or a funfair, and days and days of graft and long nights of the same often till the early hours with meals served on trays at one's desk until the problem was cracked. I remember leaving my house and walking down the street to be amazed to see everything changed. New shops, new restaurants, new bars, and then coming home and telling my wife who was not surprised but explained some of them had been gone for 3 months or more. The price enormous ~ the reward ~ beyond priceless ! Of course very few people are able or capable of putting a ship's hawser through the eye of a needle only because they were told in the first place that it could not be done. But if you dare to dare and persist against all odds, and if you have the right character, you will eventually succeed, and earn your right to true freedom beyond what you can imagine.
 
Trips we take in the name of becoming better traders

To some of you this may seem strange but here it goes.

Emotions connected to being in ‘dangerous’ (loosing position in trading) situations are usually very strong and cause a lot stress to us (freeze us). It’s amazing how certain stimulus, almost unnoticed in everyday life, gains a different significance when in ‘danger’ (danger to our normal HP) or in a situation to which we (HP) haven’t yet developed a reaction pattern.
As we all know emotion induced decisions can only be described as pure reactions and mostly lead to disastrous results. I feel part of the problem lies in the fact that we are not able to deal with it because we are not equipped – TP – for it (being able to see the emotions for what they really are and why they are born).

Some time ago I ‘developed’ an exercise that put me in a highly stressful situation and allowed me to become the ‘watcher’ of my emotions. I feel it’s got a different purpose to Socrates TV watching (in my view, that is), as it focuses on a stream of emotions. I don’t suggest you do it but one can develop something similar to create this environment, if one wants to. It can be fun too…maybe ;-) but it has risks too.

The situation I put myself in is as follows:
I board a train without buying a ticker – I can do so because at my station there’s no way to check your ticket when you get into the station. Here lies the first stimulus for the emotion flow – through who I am I believe this is stealing, pure and simple.

The cause of stress/emotions is threefold: my believe system, the monetary penalty and the embarrassment caused by being caught.

The journey is about 30 min long so there’s plenty of time to watch the emotion induced thought process and vice versa.

I watch my reactions to every noise (maybe a ticket controller coming into the carriage), people that get in at every stations (could they be my ‘punishment’ for not having a ticket).

At all times I stay connected to the inner me and watch what’s going on and why it causes the emotions it does.
When I finally get off I buy a ticket for the rest of my journey (yet again I can do it without being caught there without a ticket) and buy another ticket to cover the journey I just covered without a ticket to be squared with the BR….. and I breathe ;-)


The first trip was ‘excruciating’ and I didn’t think I could do it again. Since then I have done it a few more times and I am at peace most of the time. I can be at peace because I fully accepted the responsibility of my actions. If I got caught the first time I had a number of excuses (how immature but HP wanted to be right by persuading the ticket controller to believe me). If got caught the last time I did I would simply say ‘sorry, I don’t have a ticket. How much do I pay?’ (take my stop loss). The peace of mind allows me be very present and watch what’s going on inside me (no, HP is still there and will throw me off balance at any given moment) and take account of it.

One can draw a lot of parallels between this and trading.
 
Way ahead of you here it seems- I am almost obsessive about doing the 'right thing' in society,but can separate that guilty feeling in your scenario,getting almost 'holier than thou' with taking losses,or in the scenario paying the ticket AND the fine.We are brought up in the UK to be risk intolerant,and to remain 'little people' .That's the real issue-Americans take it in their stride,and losing your job/home/fortune is considered a rite of passage-and nobody judges them.We have to fight against the 'British way' Better to be a fool for 5 minutes than a fool for a lifetime.
 
Windlesham1 said:
Way ahead of you here it seems- I am almost obsessive about doing the 'right thing' in society,but can separate that guilty feeling in your scenario,getting almost 'holier than thou' with taking losses,or in the scenario paying the ticket AND the fine.We are brought up in the UK to be risk intolerant,and to remain 'little people' .That's the real issue-Americans take it in their stride,and losing your job/home/fortune is considered a rite of passage-and nobody judges them.We have to fight against the 'British way' Better to be a fool for 5 minutes than a fool for a lifetime.
The consequences of this is that it breeds in the National Psyche a festering sentiment that is corrosive. This sentiment can best be described as "Resentment Against Achievement". It leads people, against their inner better judgement to do things they ought not to do. This is as a consequence of not being sufficiently open minded to allow themselves to instead of whinging and grumbling and complaining, seek to find solutions and "work through" whatever obstacles they encounter. The ultimate difficulty is that, in a society which is tolerant in such large measure as to epitomise the nanny state and nanny state thinking with it, the public is not prepared to endure what is seen universally as unnecessary graft.

But when the results of graft, sustained really serious graft are shown, then because of the above all the nastiness floats to the surface in terms of envy, greed and sheer maliciousness. I tell you this because this is the reason why all these discourses are deliverd by me in the form of discussions to stimulate realisations , and not in the form of structured lessons. Therefore this thread has been devoted to discussion, not tuition.The other benefit is to make people aware of the true direction in which they have to propel themselves in order to allow themselves to succeed, and the debunking of nonsense.
 
I have a total of 815 PMs . I promise all of you I am working on them and will reply to all of you in due course. Many thanks for your most interesting private traffic and kind and supportive messages. I am very busy, but I will deal with them all, I promise.
 
Socrates posts are generally very clear and easy to understand - what exactly is it that you are finding difficult - can I help?



Windlesham1 said:
I didn't understand any of that!
 
Reply to rognvald-not sure where the hard graft and nanny state come from-are we all talking in riddles here? Hands up anyone else who understood socrtaes reply to mine. No offence or insult intended.
 
Windlesham1 said:
Reply to rognvald-not sure where the hard graft and nanny state come from-are we all talking in riddles here? Hands up anyone else who understood socrtaes reply to mine. No offence or insult intended.
I'll have a second shot Windle - maybe this one will stick.

Socrates was agreeing with your analysis of the maldemeanour of the British psyche. In general the British would rather whinge, whine and complain rather than graft. I view I agree with as a generalisation.

References to 'nanny state' are where the controlling powers reduce self-reliance by assuming wider and deeper measures of 'protection' for the general population at the expense of allowing proper development of the people. This leads to further dependence upon the controlling powers and reduced capacity or desire to look after oneself or others.
 
Good, very good, Bramble.
The irony is that risk intolerance leads to even greater risk.
I will expand on this:~

If you are to evolve as an effective trader, you have to act via the TP according to what is laid out before you enabling you to observe impartially and to act accordingly.

You must not succumb to acting via the HP according to what you feel ought to happen or should happen, or otherwise. The HP cannot be tamed and trained to do this because its construction does not allow it.

If you cannot or will not construct a properly armoured and completely segregated TP you ought not to be trading at all with the serious expectation of repeated bullseyes. This is because of the risk of compounding disadvantages which emerge as consequential components of having emotions and opinions. These are a product of the nature of humanity itself, expressed via the HP, and cannot be changed, let alone eliminated.

All of this is OK for the public. When we speak of the "public" we mean civilians in the middle of a war zone. This is not detrimental or otherwise. The public has the right to aspire to share in the wealth that surrounds it. Some members of the public may aspire to become traders. Traders, real traders, are like battle hardened troops in a war zone. Thery are very different to civilians or even part time soldiers.
I keep on using this analogy because it is the best way to describe the problem.

Skirting and dodging around the problem does not solve it. In fact it makes it worse. Not everybody is cut out for this. I once assumed that anyone can be taught. To my horror, I found it not to be the case. Some people will never make it. If you cannot confront and overcome this you ought not to be in this theatre.
If you remain in the theatre in your HP you must accept the consequences. In your HP you ought not to be in this theatre of activity at all.

This is because a refusal to confront and overcome the above in very large measure heightens and exacerbates the risk element and the emotions attached that everyone acting via a HP is condemned to experience. No one is exempt. We as traders have to overcome this. As the process is invisible and intangible to any observer other than another trader who has developed the correct faculties, the public
who are civilians in a war zone they believe to be a funfair, do not understand or accept it. They think it is some sort of trick. They become envious and malicious as a result of them not being able to replicate it.

Therefore aspiring traders who take the wrong route through this cannot and will not sustainably succeed.
The public do not see any need to undergo all this hassle, they view it as unnecessary, but of course they may be right in a lot of things, but not in this.

My post was not to contradict what it is Windle has to say, but in fact to reinforce it.
 
I hadn't intended to stir the mighty socrates into action,but not sure I take the points about graft-I consider trading as much fun as the telegraph crossword-only slightly challenging,but not hard work.The nanny state-I think we have 2 of these.The state which you reinforce in my piece is protectionism from an old establishment that resents newcomers,the other is the government who want to churn out good little PAYE victims.I have never considered this an option for myself,and I think anyone coming from a regular job to trade must find it very difficult. I sometimes hanker for the camaraderie of a workplace,but my freedom is everything-and only trading can give me that. I think I have a solid TP that is currently on holiday.
 
I come from a farming background and have become a full time trader. The farming community can treat you like a leper cos in their eyes if you ain`t got a pitchfork in your hand you ain`t working. The freedom is priceless but a lot of people think you do nothing all day. I think you have to create a persona to handle outside influences as well as trading.
 
I think a very good way of catching HP taking control (not only in trading) is to observe the following:


“When a condition or situation that the mind has attached itself to and identified with changes or disappears, the mind cannot accept it. It will cling to the disappearing condition and resist the change”



Your HP refuses to accept the changing condition and makes you blind to what’s really happening.
 
"Information shock" as Socrates has identified...........?

Interesting note from Lambchops above - apart from being a "leper", probably being called a 'gambler' as well - a perceived persona that is possibly inescapable in this occupation....?
 
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Your HP refuses to accept the changing condition and makes you blind to what’s really happening.
If you use a Stop Loss, this defines that the conditon has ended and that a new conditon for you to consider has begun. It's easier for a SL to handle this than to allow your HP to interfere.
Hopefully you have decided your SL when you are in TP without the emotional baggage.
 
brys said:
I think a very good way of catching HP taking control (not only in trading) is to observe the following:


“When a condition or situation that the mind has attached itself to and identified with changes or disappears, the mind cannot accept it. It will cling to the disappearing condition and resist the change”


Your HP refuses to accept the changing condition and makes you blind to what’s really happening.
I have a minute because this has gone quiet for the time being... Spot on ! And if you examine it very carefully you will deduce there is an emotion attached to the attachment that mucks up everything.
 
oatman said:
If you use a Stop Loss, this defines that the conditon has ended and that a new conditon for you to consider has begun. It's easier for a SL to handle this than to allow your HP to interfere.
Hopefully you have decided your SL when you are in TP without the emotional baggage.


Thank you for your comment.

Yes, that's correct and thank GoWd for stop losses. However, this is the mechanical part of trading. Sometimes even when you are stopped out the initially anticipated condition prolongs, or as you mentioned, a new condition is emerging and requires a consideration. If your TP is blinking you are very likely to get in at the wrong time or try to get back at the market etc.
My goals, as perhaps many others’, is to keep TP in the ON position at all times.
 
brys said:
Thank you for your comment.

Yes, that's correct and thank GoWd for stop losses. However, this is the mechanical part of trading. Sometimes even when you are stopped out the initially anticipated condition prolongs, or as you mentioned, a new condition is emerging and requires a consideration. If your TP is blinking you are very likely to get in at the wrong time or try to get back at the market etc.
My goals, as perhaps many others’, is to keep TP in the ON position at all times.
That is correct. We call that the TP in a state of "instant readiness" or "energised", but you can only do this if your mindstate is the correct one. The ideal mindstate has to be in a "supercooled condition", meaning that the TP is "locked on", to stop the HP drifting in and out. If you develop the ability to bifurcate, then this is not a problem. Must go.
 
SOCRATES said:
I have a minute because this has gone quiet for the time being... Spot on ! And if you examine it very carefully you will deduce there is an emotion attached to the attachment that mucks up everything.

Good day to you sir, and dzien dobry,

I would say, it (the emotion) is bound to be the underlying cause of one being 'stuck'. I have noticed that the same ‘surface’ emotion has different underlying causes (sometimes emotions, too) on different days. Recently after 7 long years I got to the bottom of an emotion that has caused quite a bit of interference in my daily life. Every time I thought I got to the bottom of it I would realise it was only another layer. And the event that caused wasn’t even all that serious. So, what I’m saying is that the ‘dangers’ are everywhere. To trade well, a trader needs to be tuned in like a super-sonic fighter jet. All systems are spot on.
 
brys

not like my Sopwith Camel then - my alternating machine gun has just gone awry and blown off the prop (and my parachute's in tatters).
 
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