Can you be long and short at same time?

[Giovan]

Does anybody still think that going long and short the same instrument in the same account has any merits?

Anyone?

Hello Hakuna Matata ( I like your swahili name.... vipi?),
You can be long and short at the same time on a single pair, although its a rather risky strategy. A good example is prior to fundamental release whereby you can have both trades running( one in profit and the other in a loss) but they gotta be equal. After some movement, close the loser and let the winner run. Some brokers will not allow this especially for small accounts. So you gotta be careful.....

Cheers and Hakuna matata

 

[tar]

Does anybody still think that going long and short the same instrument in the same account has any merits?

Anyone?

Mate if it is based on different time frames then its ok , Goldman and JPmorgan encounter such situations hence they are market makers and they do short term algo trading plus they do position trading , go figure ...

 

[Atilla]

Does anybody still think that going long and short the same instrument in the same account has any merits?

Anyone?

Are you bored?

 

[Hakuna Matata]

Hello Hakuna Matata ( I like your swahili name.... vipi?),
You can be long and short at the same time on a single pair, although its a rather risky strategy. A good example is prior to fundamental release whereby you can have both trades running( one in profit and the other in a loss) but they gotta be equal. After some movement, close the loser and let the winner run. Some brokers will not allow this especially for small accounts. So you gotta be careful.....

Cheers and Hakuna matata

Hello mate,

I'm sorry to say it bud, but what you're describing here is being "flat" (as in, having no position). Not only that, but you've got to finance both positions (via the rollover), and you have to cross the spread an additional time to close out the positions.

Your Long trade and your Short trade cancel each other out. Re-read the thread and if you don't get it I'll explain it further.

 

[Hakuna Matata]

Mate if it is based on different time frames then its ok , Goldman and JPmorgan encounter such situations hence they are market makers and they do short term algo trading plus they do position trading , go figure ...

Trading alternate strategies on the same instrument is fine. The point is that you are amending your existing position rather than opening a new one.

If your "broker" tells you that you have two positions, it is just a way to a) charge you to finance an extra position, and b) ensure that you have to trade more than necessary.

The examples of sell-side institutions is not relevant here.

 

[tar]

Trading alternate strategies on the same instrument is fine. The point is that you are amending your existing position rather than opening a new one.

If your "broker" tells you that you have two positions, it is just a way to a) charge you to finance an extra position, and b) ensure that you have to trade more than necessary.

The examples of sell-side institutions is not relevant here.

Doesn't make a difference , think about it . You are investing in the ES long term and you daytrade the ES day in day out , so what are you suggesting ? closing the long term position and reopening it every day ? is that cheaper ?

 

[Hakuna Matata]

Doesn't make a difference , think about it . You are investing in the ES long term and you daytrade the ES day in day out , so what are you suggesting ? closing the long term position and reopen it every day ? is that cheaper ?

We are talking about the same instrument (ESXX) in the same account. OK?

It is not possible for a futures broker to let you be long and short the same instrument at the same time. If you have a long +5 lots position in the ES, and you make a day trade of shorting 10 lots, the futures broker will show your position as 5 lots short.

Then, when you close out your day-trade, you will go back to being 5 lots long.

It is impossible for a futures broker to show you being long and short the same future, in the same account, at the same time. Well, not unless they've got an IT glitch (this has happened to me).

 

[Hakuna Matata]

Doesn't make a difference , think about it . You are investing in the ES long term and you daytrade the ES day in day out , so what are you suggesting ? closing the long term position and reopening it every day ? is that cheaper ?

Reducing your long-term position when you are bearish, and adding to it when you are bullish. Same instrument, same account. Yes, this is cheaper.

 

[tar]

We are talking about the same instrument (ESXX) in the same account. OK?

It is not possible for a futures broker to let you be long and short the same instrument at the same time. If you have a long +5 lots position in the ES, and you make a day trade of shorting 10 lots, the futures broker will show your position as 5 lots short.

Then, when you close out your day-trade, you will go back to being 5 lots long.

It is impossible for a futures broker to show you being long and short the same future, in the same account, at the same time. Well, not unless they've got an IT glitch (this has happened to me).

Irrelevant , the possibility depends on your instrument and broker , so if you trade FX and CFDs it is possible , that's not the issue here ...

 

[Hakuna Matata]

Irrelevant , the possibility depends on your instrument and broker , so if you trade FX and CFDs it is possible , that's not the issue here ...

Please explain to me why it is irrelevant.

 

[tar]

Please explain to me why it is irrelevant.

This is not our issue here , many trade CFDs and FX so it is possible for them .

 

[tar]

Reducing your long-term position when you are bearish, and adding to it when you are bullish. Same instrument, same account. Yes, this is cheaper.

How so ?!

I have one ES long term position , and i day trade 20 times ( RT ) every month , so instead of trading 20 times a month , you say it is cheaper to amend my long term position 20 times a month !

 

[Hakuna Matata]

This is not our issue here , many trade CFDs and FX so it is possible for them .

What isn't our issue? Trading futures?

It doesn't matter what the instrument is, I merely used futures as an example because that's what you mentioned (the ES).

 

[tar]

What isn't our issue? Trading futures?

It doesn't matter what the instrument is, I merely used futures as an example because that's what you mentioned (the ES).

Forget the instrument it is just an example , we know you cant do that in a futures account , however you can in a different account , or in a CFD account ...

 

[Hakuna Matata]

How so ?!

I have one ES long term position , and i day trade 20 times ( RT ) every month , so instead of trading 20 times a month , you say it is cheaper to amend my long term position 20 times a month !

If your long term position is in the same instrument - not just underlying, the exact same instrument - as you do your day-trades, and you do them in the same account, then yes, because of the financing and opportunity costs.

20 rts will cost whatever 20 rt's cost - doesn't matter whether that's on top of an existing position or establishing a "new" one.

 

[Hakuna Matata]

Forget the instrument it is just an example , we know you cant do that in a futures account , however you can in a different account , or in a CFD account ...

OK, so why do you think you can't do it in a futures account?

 

[tar]

If your long term position is in the same instrument - not just underlying, the exact same instrument - as you do your day-trades, and you do them in the same account, then yes, because of the financing and opportunity costs.

20 rts will cost whatever 20 rt's cost - doesn't matter whether that's on top of an existing position or establishing a "new" one.

Thats what i meant there are no difference in costs in this case so it is not more expensive ...

 

[Hakuna Matata]

Thats what i meant there is no difference in costs in this case so it is not more expensive ...

Because of the financing and opportunity costs, it is.

 

[tar]

Because of the financing and opportunity costs, it is.

When you daytrade you don't pay any financing or rollovers anyway ....

 

[Hakuna Matata]

When you daytrade you don't pay any financing or rollovers anyway ....

If you open a new position you have to post the margin, right?