Can you be long and short at same time?

[barjon]

i think the penny has finally dropped now lol look on the bright side, trading is a competition.😆

😆 that particular penny was never in doubt, but I'm not going to jump back on the round-a-bout.

All very nicely put by HM though.

 

[Hakuna Matata]

...However, in my humble opinion - which is no better than that of any other T2W member - I still believe the idea has merit for the reasons given by those of us on this side of the fence...

Tim.

You've gone awfully quiet. Do you still believe this?

 

[cablemonster]

😆 that particular penny was never in doubt, but I'm not going to jump back on the round-a-bout.

All very nicely put by HM though.

I would prefer you to admit you were wrong and thank Hakuna et al for showing you the light but I wont hold my breath.

When is teh hare back?

 

[Hakuna Matata]

I would prefer you to admit you were wrong and thank Hakuna et al for showing you the light but I wont hold my breath.

When is teh hare back?

Barjon I will let off because he's an old boy. Timsk, on the other hand, has been giving me sh!t behind the scenes in his recommendation comments - things like:

Nope, you haven't. To get it you need to have an open mind. By definition - you won't ever get it.

and

You're the one who's not willing to consider the reasons for doing it, wheras, I, ******, ****** and ****** and many more besides are very happy to accept the reasons for not doing it. Why can't you accept our reasons as readily as we all ac

and

You refuse to accept the evidence laid in front of you in numerous posts to the thread. PM ****** and tell him he's delusional making money consistently. You think it's black 'n white; open and shut case. It's anything but and that's your problem.

and - my favourite -

Just as bad as you - no one's gonna believe that. Have I called you a thick tw@t that should know better? There's no reasoning with the likes of you HakMat.

I also think it is in the best interests of newer members - and anyone new who comes to the thread at a later date - to see T2W staff concede the point. Running away is just cowardly.

 

[cablemonster]

Thats really bad form not to mention delusional.

 

[barjon]

I would prefer you to admit you were wrong and thank Hakuna et al for showing you the light but I wont hold my breath.

When is teh hare back?

If you read back you'll find I always agreed with HM et al about cost ('cept when you make a new trade after closing the first in the normal fashion, of course)

For the remainder HM et al think it totally dumb. I don't recommend it - and never did - nor have I ever practised it, but I don't write it off as untenable.

 

[Hakuna Matata]

If you read back you'll find I always agreed with HM et al about cost ('cept when you make a new trade after closing the first in the normal fashion, of course)

For the remainder HM et al think it totally dumb. I don't recommend it - and never did - nor have I ever practised it, but I don't write it off as untenable.

Right.

Under what circumstances do you think that this could be tenable for someone who wanted to make as much money as possible?

 

[cablemonster]

Right.

Under what circumstances do you think that this could be tenable for someone who wanted to make as much money as possible?

Because when momentum takes off his ducati has already started as he already has a trade in place. 😆. Yeah whatever. I already explained to him he has no trade in place and het gets slippage plus costs when he closes one of them to re-enter. The constant talk of 'insurance' was also misguided. Man up and admit you were wrong.

 

[barjon]

Right.

Under what circumstances do you think that this could be tenable for someone who wanted to make as much money as possible?

HM

Well, I summed it up here http://www.trade2win.com/boards/dis...-you-long-short-same-time-50.html#post2145562 and I'm too tired to go into battle with you again 🙂

What I will say is that the reason I think it tenable is because I stagger the closing of my ftse/dow pair trade legs - long and short - in a similar fashion. The cost there, of course, is only the stop I put on the unclosed leg. It's a tight stop and most of the time I'm stopped out, but often enough I can run with it and overall it's well worth the trouble. I see no reason why the same should not apply in the circumstances I originally described here.

 

[Hakuna Matata]

I don't think the link you provide is to the right post...

 

[barjon]

I don't think the link you provide is to the right post...

sorry it was this bit of the post:

Or going flat on a profitable trade leaving you with the prospect of going for a bit more in circumstances where you might not have the confidence to take a brand new trade of that type. The vast body of opinion is that this is an equally dumb idea.

 

[Hakuna Matata]

sorry it was this bit of the post:

Or going flat on a profitable trade leaving you with the prospect of going for a bit more in circumstances where you might not have the confidence to take a brand new trade of that type. The vast body of opinion is that this is an equally dumb idea.

OK.

Tomorrow I will prove to you that you're not quite joining the dots properly.

The bottom line is that a portfolio that is flat has the option not to to trade, while a portfolio that is long and short fungible instruments in the same size does not retain this option not to trade.

The option not to trade has a value, and by going long + short instead of flat, you are giving it up.

 

[barjon]

OK.

Tomorrow I will prove to you that you're not quite joining the dots properly.

The bottom line is that a portfolio that is flat has the option not to to trade, while a portfolio that is long and short fungible instruments in the same size does not retain this option not to trade.

The option not to trade has a value, and by going long + short instead of flat, you are giving it up.

ok - I'm off to bed now anyway. But you might also comment on why, if it's proven to be tenable for me in closing the ftse/dow legs, it's not similarly tenable. If I'm blind to something, it's that.

Nite.

 

[Hakuna Matata]

ok - I'm off to bed now anyway. But you might also comment on why, if it's proven to be tenable for me in closing the ftse/dow legs, it's not similarly tenable. If I'm blind to something, it's that.

Nite.

Yeah, I will get to that too.

Where's your man Timsk, anyway? Cat caught his tongue?

 

[D70]

Where can I vote for "best thread" ?

 

[tar]

Where can I vote for "best thread" ?

It's a mix of Poker and Hungry Hippos.

/thread

 

[Vasco da Banana]

Argument Clinic - YouTube

 

[tar]

Argument Clinic - YouTube

Exactly like this thread 😆

 

[D70]

The most interesting thing to come from this thread is how vocal Hakuna Matata has become.
I always took him for a bit of a "whateva man" kinda guy.

What was his previous nic?

 

[barjon]

I thought I’d do this on paper just to show what I am talking about – I didn’t actually trade it and you’ll just have to trust I did it in real time. I’ve put in 5 minute slots so you can see where the various events arose.

800-805 LONG ftse at 6310

845-850 seems to have stalled and I’m getting nervous because we’re approaching the 0900 reversal time where there’s often a sharp move. I’m 30 to the good so I think I’ll lock it in and review it after 0900. SHORT ftse at 6339 locking in 29.

855-900 er, looks like this might cost me, no it’s come back

905-910 no sharp 0900 move so I’ll just bracket it at 6343 and 6334

910-915 close LONG at 6333.5 and put stop on residual SHORT at 6337 (2.5 points**). I’ll trail the stop if it goes right, gradually widening. This gives me a realised profit on the LONG of 23.5.

920-925 cover SHORT at 6324.5 giving me a realised profit on the short of 14.5 and total profit of 38 with all costs (the 1 point spread on each) accounted for.

** If this stop had been hit it would have reduced my “locked in” profit to 26.5 and would have represented the cost of trying it this way.

added a screen shot from when I finalised it all (on paper of course 🙂)