Brexit and the Consequences

barjon said:
Aye, I guess they will tighten up the definition - the original "freedom", of course, was about the free movement of labour not people generally.
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Good point Jon.
I have no issue at all with the free movement of labour, so long as it isn't restricted in favour of one particular group or country. However, I have a big issue with the free movement of people generally, as the U.K. simply doesn't have the resources or infrastructure to support anyone and everyone that wants to live here.
Tim.
 
It would sit easier with me IF the refugees signed a document agreeing to return to their countries of origin when it is deemed safe to do so. Economic migrants aren't needed.
 
timsk said:
Good point Jon.
I have no issue at all with the free movement of labour, so long as it isn't restricted in favour of one particular group or country. However, I have a big issue with the free movement of people generally, as the U.K. simply doesn't have the resources or infrastructure to support anyone and everyone that wants to live here.
Tim.
Click to expand...

Funny how everyone has a slightly different definition on free movement and migration.

Mine would be zero unskilled labour, as I firmly believe that this undermines our entry level jobs into the workplace.

Skilled jobs are a different matter, but should only be offered where there is a clear need.
 
counter_violent said:
Funny how everyone has a slightly different definition on free movement and migration.

Mine would be zero unskilled labour, as I firmly believe that this undermines our entry level jobs into the workplace.

Skilled jobs are a different matter, but should only be offered where there is a clear need.
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I've seen pregnant Ethopian cleaners wiping phones and keyboards in London. The manager says he has no objection to hiring British cleaners. He has an explanation.

He says he would hire Brtish workers if he could. He often picks the British names from the CVs that are sent to him but even though he gives them appointments they simply don't turn up. He thinks, it's because they have to show the job centre they've applied to get their benefit. They are not really interested in working. Period.

I wouldn't have thought wiping phones and keyboards needed much skill.

Any ideas on way forward?
 
Atilla said:
I've seen pregnant Ethopian cleaners wiping phones and keyboards in London. The manager says he has no objection to hiring British cleaners. He has an explanation.

He says he would hire Brtish workers if he could. He often picks the British names from the CVs that are sent to him but even though he gives them appointments they simply don't turn up. He thinks, it's because they have to show the job centre they've applied to get their benefit. They are not really interested in working. Period.

I wouldn't have thought wiping phones and keyboards needed much skill.

Any ideas on way forward?
Click to expand...

Don't get me started on the benefits system.
In a nutshell. If the benefits system is so generous that it becomes a choice for the candidate to have a job or not, then the obvious answer is to reduce the benefits paid out.

Basic stuff this tbh.
 
counter_violent said:
Don't get me started on the benefits system.
In a nutshell. If the benefits system is so generous that it becomes a choice for the candidate to have a job or not, then the obvious answer is to reduce the benefits paid out.

Basic stuff this tbh.
Click to expand...


What has the benefit system got to do with Brexit or migrant labour?

We are talking about applying for jobs with min wage. How much does the NHS spend on cleaning and fighting against the MSR bug?

Shouldn't you, as IDS has been doing address the benefit system first?

I'm a buyer of services and like Boris I only look at the bottom line not the composition of the labour force or where my desired goods or service is produced?

What do I do? I have a business to run? I don't do politics?

I'm an idiot who needs help. Please advise?


Thanks (y)
 
Atilla said:
I've seen pregnant Ethopian cleaners wiping phones and keyboards in London. The manager says he has no objection to hiring British cleaners. He has an explanation.

He says he would hire Brtish workers if he could. He often picks the British names from the CVs that are sent to him but even though he gives them appointments they simply don't turn up. He thinks, it's because they have to show the job centre they've applied to get their benefit. They are not really interested in working. Period.

I wouldn't have thought wiping phones and keyboards needed much skill.

Any ideas on way forward?
Click to expand...

A common experience. Unfortunately living on benefit has become a life style choice rather than a necessary helping hand while you look to support yourself and family. Not their fault, though, since successive governments have educated people to believe that it is their right that the state should provide. Mrs T was the only one to mention people's own responsibilities but she got shouted down eventually. It's a far cry from those old men found starving in garrets in early post war years because they wouldn't claim the dole as they thought of it as charity which they weren't taking from anyone.

So re-education seems necessary although it would take years for it to change the culture.

Ps: not that the life style is up to much, of course.
 
Atilla said:
I've seen pregnant Ethopian cleaners wiping phones and keyboards in London. The manager says he has no objection to hiring British cleaners. He has an explanation.

He says he would hire Brtish workers if he could. He often picks the British names from the CVs that are sent to him but even though he gives them appointments they simply don't turn up. He thinks, it's because they have to show the job centre they've applied to get their benefit. They are not really interested in working. Period.

I wouldn't have thought wiping phones and keyboards needed much skill.

Any ideas on way forward?
Click to expand...
He doesn't complain because he can get 2 workers for the price of one and allow him to expand his business as cost price. Can hardly blame him, it makes business sense after all. Cheap labour means more profit at the end of the day. What's he offering, zero hour contracts? That line of wok is going to be cut throat in favour of the employer every time. They can get away with it because they have access to a huge pool of cheap labour. So my answer to him is hire fewer people and pay those a wage worth getting off benefits.
 
forker said:
He doesn't complain because he can get 2 workers for the price of one and allow him to expand his business as cost price. Can hardly blame him, it makes business sense after all. Cheap labour means more profit at the end of the day. What's he offering, zero hour contracts? That line of wok is going to be cut throat in favour of the employer every time. They can get away with it because they have access to a huge pool of cheap labour. So my answer to him is hire fewer people and pay those a wage worth getting off benefits.
Click to expand...

That's not necessarily true. Pal of mine experiences the same problem and he pays top dollar and not zero hours either.
 
barjon said:
A common experience. Unfortunately living on benefit has become a life style choice rather than a necessary helping hand while you look to support yourself and family. Not their fault, though, since successive governments have educated people to believe that it is their right that the state should provide. Mrs T was the only one to mention people's own responsibilities but she got shouted down eventually. It's a far cry from those old men found starving in garrets in early post war years because they wouldn't claim the dole as they thought of it as charity which they weren't taking from anyone.

So re-education seems necessary although it would take years for it to change the culture.

Ps: not that the life style is up to much, of course.
Click to expand...


Yes agreed and I support IDS's work on reforming our benefit system. I also support the benefit cap as well as universal credit. I know people who've had strokes milking the system even though they are capable.

Dementure has now over taken most common cause of death. Personally, I'm against keeping these people alive as it take about 2 labourers 24x7x365 hours to look after one vegetable.

If no family can support their own kind they need to be mercifully put down. Instead we have families suing the NHS for not looking after their loved ones, who no longer recognise them.


We need more than education, we need change and transformation. These patients as they enter the last years of their live are in a torture cell of not comprehending what is happening to them as they lose all control and bodily functions.

Animals are put down to save them further suffering but we seem to excel in prolonging pain to the point of taking a persons right to die away from them.

Anyhow much wrong with our benefit system and NHS needs major change.



Whilst I'm ranting, prisoner numbers have increased whilst staffing cut down by 30% in the last few years. We are not rehabilitating criminals, we are making them worse then when they went in.

I often think these people need to be sent to farms to work in open space tending animals which can transform them to social citizens. Instead we lock up a madman which only makes them madder.

Alternatively I'd get these violent criminals to help out with care for the elderly. Dependency generates mutual appreciation and respect.

I don't know perhaps I'm dreaming but the crap that's going around these days is just simply stomach churning from the bottom and top end society imo.


I'm not happy. :(

The future doesn't look so orange as more brown at the mo as has been commented. :|
 
barjon said:
That's not necessarily true. Pal of mine experiences the same problem and he pays top dollar and not zero hours either.
Click to expand...


Agreed, as when min wage went up our office cleaning costs went up and that's the reason he gave. He wasn't increasing margins. Just passing on min wage costs.
 
Because there is little doubt in my mind that there are plenty of people who would be happy to work a wage they could live off. When I hear they paying top dollar I have to ask what is the classification of that.
 
Atilla said:
What has the benefit system got to do with Brexit or migrant labour?


It has everything to do with it. If there is no free movement of unskilled labour, then our own layabouts would have to take the jobs. Cut the benefits as well so there is no lifestyle choice to be made.

We are talking about applying for jobs with min wage. How much does the NHS spend on cleaning and fighting against the MSR bug?


There are 2 problems here. Degree entry level nurses who think it is beneath them to do simple cleaning tasks as part of their job. Secondly, they need to go down the route of matrons on the job to keep standards up. Don't leave patient safety up to managers who live in an office or have meetings about when they are holding their next meeting.

Shouldn't you, as IDS has been doing address the benefit system first?
He did half a job, clearly needs more pruning.

I'm a buyer of services and like Boris I only look at the bottom line not the composition of the labour force or where my desired goods or service is produced?

What do I do? I have a business to run? I don't do politics?

I'm an idiot who needs help. Please advise?


Yeah, that's where you are going wrong. Not everything is about money.
Thanks (y)
Click to expand...

Thanks.
 
forker said:
Because there is little doubt in my mind that there are plenty of people who would be happy to work a wage they could live off. When I hear they paying top dollar I have to ask what is the classification of that.
Click to expand...

I don't know beyond that he tells me he offers more than the going rate for similar jobs which is not that helpful in respect of the point you make.

Mind you the foreign workers who take the jobs have to live here, too, so I suppose "a wage they could live off" means different things to different people.
 
barjon said:
I don't know beyond that he tells me he offers more than the going rate for similar jobs which is not that helpful in respect of the point you make.

Mind you the foreign workers who take the jobs have to live here, too, so I suppose "a wage they could live off" means different things to different people.
Click to expand...

Sure does as the foreign workers live in house shares with many cases having 2 per a room. If you look at the cost of paying rent for your own place, say a 1 bed for example and compare that to someone paying to house share; then you can see how a living wage is different.
 
Atilla said:
Yes agreed and I support IDS's work on reforming our benefit system. I also support the benefit cap as well as universal credit. I know people who've had strokes milking the system even though they are capable.

Dementure has now over taken most common cause of death. Personally, I'm against keeping these people alive as it take about 2 labourers 24x7x365 hours to look after one vegetable.

If no family can support their own kind they need to be mercifully put down. Instead we have families suing the NHS for not looking after their loved ones, who no longer recognise them.


We need more than education, we need change and transformation. These patients as they enter the last years of their live are in a torture cell of not comprehending what is happening to them as they lose all control and bodily functions.

Animals are put down to save them further suffering but we seem to excel in prolonging pain to the point of taking a persons right to die away from them.

Anyhow much wrong with our benefit system and NHS needs major change.



Whilst I'm ranting, prisoner numbers have increased whilst staffing cut down by 30% in the last few years. We are not rehabilitating criminals, we are making them worse then when they went in.

I often think these people need to be sent to farms to work in open space tending animals which can transform them to social citizens. Instead we lock up a madman which only makes them madder.

Alternatively I'd get these violent criminals to help out with care for the elderly. Dependency generates mutual appreciation and respect.

I don't know perhaps I'm dreaming but the crap that's going around these days is just simply stomach churning from the bottom and top end society imo.


I'm not happy. :(

The future doesn't look so orange as more brown at the mo as has been commented. :|
Click to expand...

Wide ranging rant. Get it off your chest :LOL:

Dementia.

Look at any dementia website and they will give a whole list of reasons why it is in the ascendancy. The top reason is alcohol, but when you look closely, pretty much all the reasons are environmental/ poisoning of the system. Cell damage.

When you look at all the air/ food/ water pollution we create, not to mention individual self inflicted harm, like drinking, smoking, drug abuse, etc. Then it seems obvious we are setting ourselves up for a fall.

As for exterminating dementia sufferers on the grounds of cost. I think you might be going down the wrong route. Just saying ! :LOL:

As for voluntary euthanasia , it wouldn't be at all appropriate amongst this group of people, given that their mental capacity is severely impaired.

Your idea about putting prisoners out to work is much better.
Didn't they do something like this in the US. Chain gangs. Great idea.
 
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