Brexit and the Consequences

[barjon]

This has everything to do with taxation because we have no idea what deal will be struck for market access.

Companies can currently withhold taxes on dividends or royalties from eu subsidiaries. Without this directive they would need to bilateral double tax agreements.

Very true. Whatever deals/agreements are struck the status quo seems unlikely for the financial sector.

 

[samfarrell]

A currencies value at the end of the day reflects the strength of the economy. Its a bit like the share price of a country. It looks great in the shorter term, more exports, tourism, HOWEVER....... investment will start to freeze as uncertainty about the future remains very unclear. Business needs certainty when they look to longer term investment. Who knows what tariffs businesses exporting and importing will be required to pay in the future NOBODY..... Add in inflation and possible stagflation , the longer term prospects are clouded

 

[Atilla]

A currencies value at the end of the day reflects the strength of the economy. Its a bit like the share price of a country. It looks great in the shorter term, more exports, tourism, HOWEVER....... investment will start to freeze as uncertainty about the future remains very unclear. Business needs certainty when they look to longer term investment. Who knows what tariffs businesses exporting and importing will be required to pay in the future NOBODY..... Add in inflation and possible stagflation , the longer term prospects are clouded

Agree strongly.

We are playing a bad hand behind closed doors with no accountability or transparency on what is being done.

Moreover, closed doors smacks of weakness. Going round visiting EU countries speaking to them one by one, to gauge what exactly? Deals, support for EU or UK positions, options??? Divide and rule.

If one has a strong hand, make it visible and transparent then the guy on the other side of the table knows and should yield right?

We are not playing poker here. Conceal your hand for what reason, knock out the other side or bluff. It's just all wrong.

How should EU respond to such UK tactics? It's just pi55 poor. I know how I would respond. Doors wide open. See your self out.

 

[forker]

The eu have said no negotiations until article 50 is triggered. If that is a legal standpoint or not I am unsure. But it definitely is odd visiting eu members

 

[Atilla]

The eu have said no negotiations until article 50 is triggered. If that is a legal standpoint or not I am unsure. But it definitely is odd visiting eu members

Well it has value if UK knows how the members feel and what their stance is as collectively they'll represent the EU based on their votes.

Contrary to opinion here the EU is democratic and it's members have proportional votes on policy and outcome. :idea:

 

[Atilla]

May Backs Down on Parliament Vote Over Her Brexit Terms

About time some reason prevailed. Anybody would think we were turning into a banana republic. Phew...

Prime Minister Theresa May has accepted that Parliament should be allowed to vote on her plan for taking Britain out of the European Union, but asked lawmakers to do it in a way that gives her space to negotiate.[/I


Now would be a good time to buy back into cable. Bounce / retrace expected :smart:


The decision may calm investors after they dumped the pound on concern May was taking a gung-ho approach to the negotiations. The currency took a beating, falling more than 6 percent this month, after May signaled her intention to put immigration curbs before the City of London’s interests in pulling Britain out of European Union.

Parliament will debate on Wednesday a motion from the opposition Labour Party calling for a “full and transparent debate on the government’s plan for leaving the EU” and for Parliament to be able to “properly scrutinize that plan” before she begins formal talks. The request is supported by some lawmakers from May’s own Conservative Party.

In response, May late on Tuesday tabled an amendment that effectively accepted the motion, adding that there shouldn’t be an attempt to block Brexit or “undermine the negotiating position of the government.”

 

[tar]

The fall of the pound bit her on her @@@@ ...

She thought its a picnic to say and decide whatever she wants .

 

[tomorton]

The PM's got nothing to lose by debating our objectives post-Article 50. It might even one day help her spread the blame around. Surely Parliamentary debate is more about short-term point-scoring and power-games than democracy.

 

[Atilla]

The PM's got nothing to lose by debating our objectives post-Article 50. It might even one day help her spread the blame around. Surely Parliamentary debate is more about short-term point-scoring and power-games than democracy.

Pre-Article 50, 3-day debate and the pre-vote seem to be in dispute... :idea:

 

[Splitlink]

The PM's got nothing to lose by debating our objectives post-Article 50. It might even one day help her spread the blame around. Surely Parliamentary debate is more about short-term point-scoring and power-games than democracy.

For anyone who wants to leave EU on the argument that we are governed by Brussels, it seems to make sense that the more we are governed by Parliament, the better.

I am not keen on referendums, myself--look what has happened in Columbia--
but this one is done and over with and I have come to accepting it.

I can't see Brexit being overturned in Parliament. Any vote against it would be risky for an MP, who cannot not know how many, in his constituency, had voted for Brexit.

All that said, I can't see us being clear of EU any time soon.

 

[Atilla]

For anyone who wants to leave EU on the argument that we are governed by Brussels, it seems to make sense that the more we are governed by Parliament, the better.

I am not keen on referendums, myself--look what has happened in Columbia--
but this one is done and over with and I have come to accepting it.

I can't see Brexit being overturned in Parliament. Any vote against it would be risky for an MP, who cannot not know how many, in his constituency, had voted for Brexit.

All that said, I can't see us being clear of EU any time soon.

Very true and right you are Split,

Here is good article on referendums. https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-10-13/the-trouble-with-referendums

This article is to remind us how close it was. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/politics/eu_referendum/results

Remembering turnout was just approx., 72% and 52% voted for Brexit which is just a mere 37% of the UK population who actually voted for Brexit.

Even then there was much uncertainty with Swiss, Norway and Canadian models talked about. Not to mention 3 very politically ambitious characters and Mr Farage him self who seems to have done a dirty and simply left. Probably clever of the lot now chasing money advising ambitious losers who wannabe someone...

As referendum's go it's about as dirty and nasty as it could get with so many lies, deceits and exaggerations.


I thought this page on BBC website super explains everything really well.

I really feel Parliament and HoLs is where this intelligent debate and serious considerations take place and not in the media circus with dirty filthy scoundrel politicians.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-32810887



As you may have guessed, I'm gunning for this outcome!

Could MPs block an EU exit?

Could the necessary legislation pass the Commons, given that a lot of MPs - all SNP and Lib Dems, nearly all Labour and many Conservatives - were in favour of staying? The referendum result is not legally binding - Parliament still has to pass the laws that will get Britain out of the 28 nation bloc, starting with the repeal of the 1972 European Communities Act.

The withdrawal agreement also has to be ratified by Parliament - the House of Lords and/or the Commons could vote against ratification, according to a House of Commons library report. In practice, Conservative MPs who voted to remain in the EU would be whipped to vote with the government. Any who defied the whip would have to face the wrath of voters at the next general election.

One scenario that could see the referendum result overturned, is if MPs forced a general election and a party campaigned on a promise to keep Britain in the EU, got elected and then claimed that the election mandate topped the referendum one. Two-thirds of MPs would have to vote for a general election to be held before the next scheduled one in 2020.




On a side note, I reckon the turmoil about to hit the high street, fuel rises, pension short falls, going to bite a lot of the protest voters in the bum. Assuming jobs can be maintained and not lost too.

Hearing on radio 4, the elderly that can't be looked after are being deposited with the NHS & A&E departments. These people can't feed, wash or clothe them selves without help. If they don't get taken to NHS then they fall over and get collected by ambulances.

Bring on the baby boomers of post-WWII. I wonder who'll be wiping and washing their arses when the migrant health workers are cut down to please the hope and glory voters.



What a freaking nightmare!!!

 

[Mr. Charts]

I welcome Brexit for one reason only.
Unilever has tried to add 10% to the price because of Brexit.
Apparently this is due to the collapse of sterling due to the increased import costs from Hell.

 

[samfarrell]

My understanding is that parliament would just get to debate Brexit , there will be no parliamentary vote on Brexit itself ? Seems like a waste of time

 

[timsk]

. . .Hearing on radio 4, the elderly that can't be looked after are being deposited with the NHS & A&E departments. These people can't feed, wash or clothe them selves without help. If they don't get taken to NHS then they fall over and get collected by ambulances.

Bring on the baby boomers of post-WWII. I wonder who'll be wiping and washing their arses when the migrant health workers are cut down to please the hope and glory voters.

Atilla,
You're being very naughty, again! Blaming Brexit for everything is getting to be rather tiresome.

I heard the same piece on Radio 4 and it had absolutely nothing to do with Brexit at all. It's simply a matter of allocation of resources. The two people interviewed - a hospital consultant and a care home owner - were both in agreement that the elderly can get the support and care they need in care homes. That's where they should be, not clogging up limited bed space in hospitals. The government needs to allocate sufficient funds to the care homes to enable them to take the elderly which will free up hospital bed spaces and save money for the NHS in the process. It's a win / win situation (potentially) that's got bu88er all to do with Brexit!
Tim.

 

[Atilla]

Atilla,
You're being very naughty, again! Blaming Brexit for everything is getting to be rather tiresome.

I heard the same piece on Radio 4 and it had absolutely nothing to do with Brexit at all. It's simply a matter of allocation of resources. The two people interviewed - a hospital consultant and a care home owner - were both in agreement that the elderly can get the support and care they need in care homes. That's where they should be, not clogging up limited bed space in hospitals. The government needs to allocate sufficient funds to the care homes to enable them to take the elderly which will free up hospital bed spaces and save money for the NHS in the process. It's a win / win situation (potentially) that's got bu88er all to do with Brexit!
Tim.

Not blaming Brexit for that Tim, but you do have to think and plan ahead. Even 8 year olds can plan two moves ahead when playing chess.

Just commenting how ill thought out and poor referendum it is to determine fate of the country!


1. 350m promied to the NHS is not going to the NHS.
2. with declining birth rates, aging population and rising tax burden you really will need to control migration. I personally favour European migrants to ones outside of the EU. Call me racist if you must. This is not a choice. It's a necessity.
3. to think Parliament voted against Euthanasia is also crazy but won't go into that

Tiresome you say? The Brexit relief rally knocking the BoE for acting early didn't last long did it.

Eurosceptics have been a thorn on Tory party for years. If you read that referendum article, which is why DC called it to shut the Eurosceptics in his party up and it back fired in his face. Ill thought out referendum with some disastrous consequences heading our way.

You should be thinking about saving London and what's been built along with the NHS and not just the fisherman.

Complex considerations yes indeed but too complex for the lay man on the street.

I fear we have a fly heading into windscreen scenario coming their way.

 

[Atilla]

I welcome Brexit for one reason only.
Unilever has tried to add 10% to the price because of Brexit.
Apparently this is due to the collapse of sterling due to the increased import costs from Hell.

Touching ad...

If you watch carefully, they've hidden the identity of the black Labrador so it doesn't get unwarranted abuse.

This one is worth watching too.

 

[sminicooper]

I welcome Brexit for one reason only.
Unilever has tried to add 10% to the price because of Brexit.
Apparently this is due to the collapse of sterling due to the increased import costs from Hell.

I'm still trying to work out how import costs/weaker pound have added 10% to the price of Marmite when it's made in UK from the dregs and other cr@p left over from brewing beer (which is why its origin is in Burton upon Trent and it's still made there). I can't believe that Unilever would use Brexit as an excuse to profiteer!

Perhaps that Tesco man ain't so bad after all?

 

[Splitlink]

Atilla,
You're being very naughty, again! Blaming Brexit for everything is getting to be rather tiresome.

I heard the same piece on Radio 4 and it had absolutely nothing to do with Brexit at all. It's simply a matter of allocation of resources. The two people interviewed - a hospital consultant and a care home owner - were both in agreement that the elderly can get the support and care they need in care homes. That's where they should be, not clogging up limited bed space in hospitals. The government needs to allocate sufficient funds to the care homes to enable them to take the elderly which will free up hospital bed spaces and save money for the NHS in the process. It's a win / win situation (potentially) that's got bu88er all to do with Brexit!
Tim.

Tim, I can't see that it matters, on hospitals or care homes, it is all money that the government has not got.

Another bit from the media that I heard yesterday. Young doctors are not wanting to become MDs. Old ones are retiring and the practice has to close for lack of doctors. The surgeries are packed out, as it is.

Here, in Spain, this problem has not arisen, yet. I ring up, make an appointmernt and get seen to right away--in fact, I go earlier, because he'll, probably, see me anyway. The consultancies take longer, I admit, but they are not bad. On a couple of occasions, I have given my name to the receptionist and, before I have taken my seat, the door has opened and he is calling my name.

I am very satisfied with my treatment. How long this will last will depend on what the future holds, as a country, overall, but I find it hard to believe that a country as wealthy as the UK, cannot keep its social security together, when it is able to spend on so much on many other things.

I believe that all ordinary folk want, is a decent quality of life and, if this falls through, along with other services, they are going to bring real problems to the UK for leaving EU. TBH, they don't give a fig about all the economic data being pushed out by Westminster. Tell that to an old lady, at the cash desk, trying to get by on her pension.

 

[Mr. Charts]

I guess it's increased transport costs due to oil being paid for in $$$ and since Unilever is a global company with huge imports it probably wants to increase prices across the board in one fell swoop.
The largest element is probably pure unadulterated greed imho.
The boss of Tesco was poached from Unilever interestingly.

Anyway, the fact is inflation will inevitably rise with Brexit, as will a lot of other economic and employment problems.
And all because Chinese owned Pizza Express has a substantial number of hard working East European waiting staff so people think foreigners have "taken over British jobs".
De-globalising and de-trading Britain means we can pretend to control immigration.
It's the people themselves, not their nationalities that matter, imho.
Advantages of Brexit include making our own laws and not being ruled by unelected obese feline bureaucrats in Brussels so it's not all an unmitigated disaster.
Plus, who doesn't get a little frisson of joy at becoming independent again?
Like most things in life, there are plenty of advantages and disadvantages. Not much is either totally good or bad.

 

[Atilla]

I'm still trying to work out how import costs/weaker pound have added 10% to the price of Marmite when it's made in UK from the dregs and other cr@p left over from brewing beer (which is why its origin is in Burton upon Trent and it's still made there). I can't believe that Unilever would use Brexit as an excuse to profiteer!

Perhaps that Tesco man ain't so bad after all?

Unilever is not using Brexit as an excuse for profits!

Issue is fall in currency and rising import costs. Not Brexit! Turning it into a joke about scare mongering, blaming Brexit and la la la talk has to stop when the lay man has to check out at the tills.


Manufacture of marmite entails importing other components, jars, lids, packaging, labels, ink and transport etc.

Tesco is objecting to Unilever not passing on savings when the pound rose keeping profits and now choosing to pass on increases when the pound falls. Which is also a fair point.

However, when the pound rose it was gradual. Not so much as the shcok compared to recent falls.




On another point apparently water pumps used by our utilities are imported from Austria. BAE & RR makes turbines, wings and jet engines and I was wondering just how difficult it must be to make water pumps???

So water utility costs will rise too and they will be passed on or eat into profits.

I did mention this before. We were doing a technology refresh and within couple of months from obtaining quotes for data centre tech refresh, prices for kit just went up by literally 10s of thousands. That was when the GU was around 1.36 if I recall. Likely to be much worse now.



This is just the tip of the iceberg if that. Tsunami coming our way. Did someone shout scaremongering???

I thought I thaw a wolf! :cheesy: