Atilla
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Agree, absolutely. In principal any unification of two halves makes the whole, united and stronger.
Similarly, division weakens the sides.
We are moving from cooperation and coordination to competition. There will be consequences to both sides.
"IMF says global debt tops $152 trillion, urges some to spend more" - http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN1252HK
counter_violent
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Is there no end to the complete and utter nonsense that these so called experts spout.
Atilla
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Have you been listening to the Conservative party conference???:whistling
Atilla
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Hey guys,
I'm still confused about this issue of invoking article 50 and re-appealing the old 1972 European Act. I don't understand wot's going on here...
May has announced a Great Repeal Bill, which would incorporate EU laws into British law on the day the U.K. leaves the bloc, to provide continuity and certainty to business and workers.
Jackson said that while most lawmakers in the lower House of Commons would support the plan, there is no majority in favor of the legislation among members of the unelected House of Lords, the upper chamber. The bill will need to pass both the Commons and the Lords in order to become law.
The European Communities Act 1972 (c. 68) is an Act of the Parliament of the United Kingdom which legislated for the accession of the United Kingdom to the European Economic Community (the Common Market), the European Coal and Steel Community (ECSC) and the European Atomic Energy Community (EURATOM) and also legislated for the incorporation of European Union law (then Community law) into the domestic law of the United Kingdom. All three of these institutions would later form part of what is now know as the European Union and the act has been amended several times to give legal effect to the Single European Act, the Maastricht Treaty which formed the European Union and most recently the Treaty of Lisbon. It may or may not be repealed or amended[1] following the decision in the EU Referendum to "Leave the European Union" on Thursday 23 June 2016. In an interview with BBC News Theresa May promised that UK will introduce a bill to remove the European Communities Act 1972 (UK) from the statute book.[2]
I don't quite understand how article 50 can be invoked wihout first removing the European Communities Act of 1972 first????
Then there is this article from the leave camp. http://leavehq.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=146
As before my understanding was that teh ECA of 1972 had be re-appealed first by Parliament before Article 50 could be invoked. I've googled Confused.dot.com but came up with zilch.
Either way though, I think Theresa May and the Tories are fast becoming all Parties to all people. Putin must be thinking he can learn from us. :cheesy:
I'm still confused about this issue of invoking article 50 and re-appealing the old 1972 European Act. I don't understand wot's going on here...
May has announced a Great Repeal Bill, which would incorporate EU laws into British law on the day the U.K. leaves the bloc, to provide continuity and certainty to business and workers.
Jackson said that while most lawmakers in the lower House of Commons would support the plan, there is no majority in favor of the legislation among members of the unelected House of Lords, the upper chamber. The bill will need to pass both the Commons and the Lords in order to become law.
The European Communities Act 1972 (c. 68) is an Act of the Parliament of the United Kingdom which legislated for the accession of the United Kingdom to the European Economic Community (the Common Market), the European Coal and Steel Community (ECSC) and the European Atomic Energy Community (EURATOM) and also legislated for the incorporation of European Union law (then Community law) into the domestic law of the United Kingdom. All three of these institutions would later form part of what is now know as the European Union and the act has been amended several times to give legal effect to the Single European Act, the Maastricht Treaty which formed the European Union and most recently the Treaty of Lisbon. It may or may not be repealed or amended[1] following the decision in the EU Referendum to "Leave the European Union" on Thursday 23 June 2016. In an interview with BBC News Theresa May promised that UK will introduce a bill to remove the European Communities Act 1972 (UK) from the statute book.[2]
I don't quite understand how article 50 can be invoked wihout first removing the European Communities Act of 1972 first????
Then there is this article from the leave camp. http://leavehq.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=146
As before my understanding was that teh ECA of 1972 had be re-appealed first by Parliament before Article 50 could be invoked. I've googled Confused.dot.com but came up with zilch.
Either way though, I think Theresa May and the Tories are fast becoming all Parties to all people. Putin must be thinking he can learn from us. :cheesy:
Last edited:
Atilla
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1. So if Article 50 is invoked we leave the EU.
2. The new Great Repeal Bill will incorporate all EU laws into British law on the day the U.K. leaves the bloc
3. With the ECA 1972 act, all EU directives will continue becoming law over here until it is re-appealed.
Effectively, we need 1 and 3 to be passed??? What is the Great Repeal Bill for then?
Still not clear. I'm ready to roll over and die I think.
1. So if Article 50 is invoked we leave the EU.
2. The new Great Repeal Bill will incorporate all EU laws into British law on the day the U.K. leaves the bloc
3. With the ECA 1972 act, all EU directives will continue becoming law over here until it is re-appealed.
Effectively, we need 1 and 3 to be passed??? What is the Great Repeal Bill for then?
Still not clear. I'm ready to roll over and die I think.
1. Yes.
2. Not necessarily all laws, just the ones Parliament agrees to. The others will be repealed.
3. Yes.
The Great Repeal Bill, which will become law as the Great Repeal Act, will cancel the UK legislation that Parliament doesn't like. The other laws we have that were passed because of EU Directives will remain in force. A UK Act can only be repealed by another UK Act, and an Act that isn't repealed stays in force, they never expire - some of them are centuries old but they still apply.
In theory, the government could trigger Article 50 and take us out of the EU while Parliament stopped them repealing a single law resulting from EU membership. How ironic that would be. Won't happen though.
Atilla
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Thanks Tomorton, making a little more sense now. As I read around some web articles I'm reading, Scottish Parliament may object and there could be a majority against the repeal bill in Parliament as well as some opposition from the HoLs. So still plenty to be ironed out but Brexit is chugging along.
Atilla
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Pat494
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They were right
samfarrell
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When the Home Secretary says foreign workers should not be allowed “take the jobs that British people should do”. What does "should" mean. Is the foreign worker on minimum wage taking a job that some British person on benefits would do ? Confused
counter_violent
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Good call CV!!! :cheesy:
http://www.trade2win.com/boards/foyer/217408-brexit-consequences-47.html#post2789894
Hmm, your link doesn't link to anything
Just for info, it went to 1.3444 :cheesy:
So your point is what exactly ?
counter_violent
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Yes, the problem with unskilled migration from the EU is that wages at the lower end become artificially depressed which has a knock on effect that if a job pays so little in comparison to claiming benefits, then this becomes a lifestyle choice as opposed to a safety net.
The way to deal with this issue is to reduce benefits and at the same time reduce migration which in turn reduces the artificial competition for low end jobs.
Atilla
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I think the government has missed a trick here and is on a PR nightmare.
Don't get me wrong I do like Theresa May thus far but she is in danger of selling London's finance down the shoot same as Thatcher did with manufacturing.
Government should listen to a very valuable industry and heed their requests and advice. It's a little like crises management.
Allowing migrant issue to dictate UK policy ahead of all else doesn't bode well for our economic well being imo.
samfarrell
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Is there not a minimum wage ? And why arent the British people on benefits willing to work for minimum wage ?
samfarrell
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Isnt it fairly clear that this vote was only ever really about migration and economic arguments are fairly unsound
That is my opinion. The only reason that the Brexiters can give about economics is that the Euro is falling apart.
There is a crisis worldwide. Why should not the EU be in crisis? All the UK is doing is joining a larger club.
The UK will be ok, I'm sure. But so will the EU be. The real issue is the migrant one.
Wall Street Journal piece summarising Article 50 procedure. I hope it helps shed some light, the popular media are rubbish at this sort of thing.
What is Article 50?
Article 50 of the EU treaties spells out what happens when a country wants to leave the bloc. First, the country has to submit a formal notification spelling out its desire to leave--a mere communication of the referendum result isn't enough. The notification triggers Article 50 and starts the two-year period of negotiations. The EU's remaining 27 states must then set out the areas they will negotiate on and give the European Commission--the bloc's executive--the task of carrying out negotiations on their behalf. The negotiations will include the date of the actual Brexit--when EU law will no longer apply automatically to the U. K.--and the transition periods for disentangling Britain from EU law in areas such as financial services, access to the single market or access to security databases used in the fight against terrorism.
Can the U.K. leave without triggering Article 50?
Yes. The U.K. could unilaterally abolish EU law and cut itself off all forms of cooperation--the single market, trade agreements, security and police cooperation. But EU officials warn that this would have a far greater disruptive effect on the markets and on the U.K. and the EU economies.
What is the deadline for when the U.K. needs to leave the EU?
If the 27 countries and the U.K. fail to reach an agreement on the terms of separation within two years, the U.K. is automatically kicked out and EU law no longer applies to Britain. But the other 27 countries can agree--and it must be unanimous--to prolong the negotiation period beyond the two years if the U.K. also wants to do this.
What happens during the negotiations?
The U.K. will remain a full EU member with rights and obligations until the actual exit takes place. In trade, for instance, it won't be able to carry out bilateral trade negotiations with the U.S. or any other country until the day it exits the EU, because all EU countries have a common trade policy. On issues that are related to Britain's exit from the bloc, U.K. diplomats or ministers will be invited to leave the room. Defining those issues could get tricky and still has to be agreed among the 27 EU governments.
What happens after the negotiations?
Along with the timing of triggering Article 50, Ms. May announced that she will introduce to parliament a bill that will transform--at the moment of exit--all EU legislation into national laws and hands British lawmakers the power to change them. That move creates certainty for citizens and businesses that Britain's departure from the EU won't throw the country into a legal void and assures a certain level of continuity leading up to the exit and immediately thereafter. Once the terms of the divorce have been agreed--and approved by the other 27 governments and the European Parliament--the U.K. could start negotiating a new trade agreement between the EU and the U.K. This could include access to the single market and other areas of cooperation, but could take years to negotiate and would require ratification by all parliaments in all 28 countries.
What is Article 50?
Article 50 of the EU treaties spells out what happens when a country wants to leave the bloc. First, the country has to submit a formal notification spelling out its desire to leave--a mere communication of the referendum result isn't enough. The notification triggers Article 50 and starts the two-year period of negotiations. The EU's remaining 27 states must then set out the areas they will negotiate on and give the European Commission--the bloc's executive--the task of carrying out negotiations on their behalf. The negotiations will include the date of the actual Brexit--when EU law will no longer apply automatically to the U. K.--and the transition periods for disentangling Britain from EU law in areas such as financial services, access to the single market or access to security databases used in the fight against terrorism.
Can the U.K. leave without triggering Article 50?
Yes. The U.K. could unilaterally abolish EU law and cut itself off all forms of cooperation--the single market, trade agreements, security and police cooperation. But EU officials warn that this would have a far greater disruptive effect on the markets and on the U.K. and the EU economies.
What is the deadline for when the U.K. needs to leave the EU?
If the 27 countries and the U.K. fail to reach an agreement on the terms of separation within two years, the U.K. is automatically kicked out and EU law no longer applies to Britain. But the other 27 countries can agree--and it must be unanimous--to prolong the negotiation period beyond the two years if the U.K. also wants to do this.
What happens during the negotiations?
The U.K. will remain a full EU member with rights and obligations until the actual exit takes place. In trade, for instance, it won't be able to carry out bilateral trade negotiations with the U.S. or any other country until the day it exits the EU, because all EU countries have a common trade policy. On issues that are related to Britain's exit from the bloc, U.K. diplomats or ministers will be invited to leave the room. Defining those issues could get tricky and still has to be agreed among the 27 EU governments.
What happens after the negotiations?
Along with the timing of triggering Article 50, Ms. May announced that she will introduce to parliament a bill that will transform--at the moment of exit--all EU legislation into national laws and hands British lawmakers the power to change them. That move creates certainty for citizens and businesses that Britain's departure from the EU won't throw the country into a legal void and assures a certain level of continuity leading up to the exit and immediately thereafter. Once the terms of the divorce have been agreed--and approved by the other 27 governments and the European Parliament--the U.K. could start negotiating a new trade agreement between the EU and the U.K. This could include access to the single market and other areas of cooperation, but could take years to negotiate and would require ratification by all parliaments in all 28 countries.
