Brexit and the Consequences

[counter_violent]

Stick to facts indeed.

Let me guess your next post... what plans do the LibDems have?


You clown. Keep taking the pills.

I don't need to ask what plans the Lib Dems have.

1) we already know, that's why they were voted out and are now irrelevant.
2) see above

 

[Atilla]

Dominating, no. Domineering, pretty much.

The voting and contribution system is based on size of country and GDP. Voting and representation is fair.

Are you suggesting...

1. Bigger the GDP less one should pay?

2. Smaller the country greater voting rights?

If I have the wrong end of the stick, then how is Germany domineering?

 

[Atilla]

I don't need to ask what plans the Lib Dems have.

1) we already know, that's why they were voted out and are now irrelevant.
2) see above

Time waster!!!

So how is the EU stopping UK from trading with the rest of the World then?

Don't say trade deals? Because EU has trade deals with most other countries.

Brexiters talk much and show / demonstrate little. Much hot air. Heat wave even!

 

[counter_violent]

The voting and contribution system is based on size of country and GDP. Voting and representation is fair.

Are you suggesting...

1. Bigger the GDP less one should pay?

2. Smaller the country greater voting rights?

If I have the wrong end of the stick, then how is Germany domineering?

Germany pays the largest contribution followed by us. The EU is just another giant socialist ponzi scheme where wealth is transferred from those who are productive, to those who are feckless. As long as this keeps happening, then nobody makes progress.

 

[Atilla]

Leftist ideas means the spectrum from socialism to communism.

Let's see how you view sovereignty if US laws were going to be made in Brussels. Or even better, Mexico City.

I seem to recall it was a little dispute over sovereignty that gave birth to your entire country so I know you can't be serious. We are having a good laugh aren't we?

This is a very narrow perspective to pigeon box a big chunk of social policy in our modern era.

I would not consider the Norsk countries as communist at all. They are free market capitalist driven economies with private business practices. The only point being as a collective group of people representing their nation they have socially supportive public services. Very happy and perfectly good functioning ones too.

You can't teach new tricks to an old dog that's for certain.

 

[Eric Geddes]

Project Fear unravels ..........

http://www.cbi.org.uk/news/manufacturing-demand-strengthens/

UK manufacturers’ order books are at their highest level since August 1988. A CBI survey of 464 firms found a “broad-based improvement” in 13 out of 17 manufacturing sub-sectors, with food, drink and tobacco and chemicals leading the British-made boom. Meanwhile, export orders rocketed to a 22-year high. CBI Chief Economist Rain Newton-Smith said:

“Britain’s manufacturers are continuing to see demand for “Made in Britain” goods rise with the temperature. Total and export order books are at highs not seen for decades, and output growth remains robust.”
​

This is the same CBI http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35855869 that warned before Brexit that an out vote would cause a “serious economic shock“, set to cost £1 billion to the economy and threaten nearly 1 million jobs. This time last year, 70% of surveyed city economists predicted the UK would by now be in recession.

Just as with trading --- do your own analysis and be suspicious of the "experts" !

 

[counter_violent]

http://www.cbi.org.uk/news/manufacturing-demand-strengthens/

UK manufacturers’ order books are at their highest level since August 1988. A CBI survey of 464 firms found a “broad-based improvement” in 13 out of 17 manufacturing sub-sectors, with food, drink and tobacco and chemicals leading the British-made boom. Meanwhile, export orders rocketed to a 22-year high. CBI Chief Economist Rain Newton-Smith said:

“Britain’s manufacturers are continuing to see demand for “Made in Britain” goods rise with the temperature. Total and export order books are at highs not seen for decades, and output growth remains robust.”
​

This is the same CBI http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35855869 that warned before Brexit that an out vote would cause a “serious economic shock“, set to cost £1 billion to the economy and threaten nearly 1 million jobs. This time last year, 70% of surveyed city economists predicted the UK would by now be in recession.

Just as with trading --- do your own analysis and be suspicious of the "experts" !

Experts...hell yeah...we sure don't need any more of them.

 

[timsk]

Hi Jon,

Depends whether you are concerned about your park bench or unfair trade competition from outside EU.

You're interpreting my point too literally. What I was driving at is that adding another (fourth) layer of bureaucracy on top of what we already have will take a lot longer, cost more and is unlikely to result in anything very useful.

You keep going on about these faceless bureaucrats in the EU who are no more unelected, unaccountable and difficult to remove than civil servants here. They no longer have the sort of power they did in the early days and all the policy decisions they put forward have to be ratified by the European Parliament and the Council of Ministers - bodies in which members have been elected, are accountable and can be removed.

Our civil servants don't make the key decisions that affect us all. They are in place to enact the decisions made by our elected representatives. They may advise ministers to do X, Y and Z - but, ultimately, the ministers have to consider the electorate for the reasons given in my post to Split'. The reason I keep going on about the EU being undemocratic is explained much better than I ever could in this blog post: The Undemocratic EU Explained - It Will Never Change.

Of course there's a lot that requires a fundamental shake up but the basic concept of bringing countries together under broadly common laws, common (in theory) economic frameworks, common citizens/workers rights and open across national boundary trade seems to me sound, albeit horribly cumbersome to manage.

Bradly speaking, I agree with you Jon. However, Norway, Iceland and Switzerland (among others) are not in the EU and one could pretty much say the same about them. Trying to force 28 oddly shaped pegs into a single round hole is a fundamentally flawed idea, IMO.
Tim.

 

[Atilla]

Germany pays the largest contribution followed by us. The EU is just another giant socialist ponzi scheme where wealth is transferred from those who are productive, to those who are feckless. As long as this keeps happening, then nobody makes progress.

Ok and how does the EU stop UK from trading with the rest of the World.

Keep repeating these lines much like we'll be able to buy food cheaper from elsewhere, we'll get our sovereignty back and we will not have rules and regulations that govern us by the EU but none of these arguments are supported by what's happening on the ground. No evidence we'll have more jobs and higher wages either. On the contrary quite the opposite if we listen to the experts

You really haven't worked any of this out have you?

Even stopping migration and free movement of labour is not the issue here, it's migrants from the Commonwealth countries that bug people.

In fact not even Mr DD knows what to ask for?

After the British Prime Minister’s calamitous decision to call a snap general election ended with her Conservative Party losing its majority in parliament, her EU counterparts are pressing her to clarifty how the U.K. envisages its relationship after Brexit.

All those who know what Brexit means Brexit is? We're leaving the EU.

I don't know maybe it's a good plan. I can just see the EU negotiators just sitting round a table wondering what the heck is she on. What ever she's taking, somebody should increase the dosage.


Then you pop-up like a magic mushroom and suggest we look at the facts. Be good to if you had any

 

[cantagril]

You have this thing about the "left" that colors your perceptions. Germany dominates the EU not because of some plot or other but because it has its act more together than any other EU member. "Sovereignty" is not an absolute good. And arrogance serves no useful purpose.

As for the US being a domineering global power, I wouldn't take that to the bank.

Dominating, no. Domineering, pretty much.

The voting and contribution system is based on size of country and GDP. Voting and representation is fair.

Are you suggesting...

1. Bigger the GDP less one should pay? No

2. Smaller the country greater voting rights? No

If I have the wrong end of the stick, then how is Germany domineering?

....possibly because of the nuance of meaning between "dominate" and "domineer". IMHO Germany dominates the EU whilst the US is both somewhat dominant and domineering.

 

[counter_violent]

Ok and how does the EU stop UK from trading with the rest of the World.

Keep repeating these lines much like we'll be able to buy food cheaper from elsewhere, we'll get our sovereignty back and we will not have rules and regulations that govern us by the EU but none of these arguments are supported by what's happening on the ground. No evidence we'll have more jobs and higher wages either. On the contrary quite the opposite if we listen to the experts

You really haven't worked any of this out have you?

Even stopping migration and free movement of labour is not the issue here, it's migrants from the Commonwealth countries that bug people.

In fact not even Mr DD knows what to ask for?

After the British Prime Minister’s calamitous decision to call a snap general election ended with her Conservative Party losing its majority in parliament, her EU counterparts are pressing her to clarifty how the U.K. envisages its relationship after Brexit.

All those who know what Brexit means Brexit is? We're leaving the EU.

I don't know maybe it's a good plan. I can just see the EU negotiators just sitting round a table wondering what the heck is she on. What ever she's taking, somebody should increase the dosage.


Then you pop-up like a magic mushroom and suggest we look at the facts. Be good to if you had any

Here we go again. How many times do I have to explain supply and demand.

If the UK stops the mass unskilled immigration free for all, then wages will rise in the areas where there becomes short supply of labour. This is basic capitalism me ol china. This coupled with EU contribution savings and a reduction in benefit hand outs and a further reduction in the size of the state.

It's all going splendidly so far.

 

[Atilla]

http://www.cbi.org.uk/news/manufacturing-demand-strengthens/

UK manufacturers’ order books are at their highest level since August 1988. A CBI survey of 464 firms found a “broad-based improvement” in 13 out of 17 manufacturing sub-sectors, with food, drink and tobacco and chemicals leading the British-made boom. Meanwhile, export orders rocketed to a 22-year high. CBI Chief Economist Rain Newton-Smith said:

“Britain’s manufacturers are continuing to see demand for “Made in Britain” goods rise with the temperature. Total and export order books are at highs not seen for decades, and output growth remains robust.”
​

This is the same CBI http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35855869 that warned before Brexit that an out vote would cause a “serious economic shock“, set to cost £1 billion to the economy and threaten nearly 1 million jobs. This time last year, 70% of surveyed city economists predicted the UK would by now be in recession.

Just as with trading --- do your own analysis and be suspicious of the "experts" !

Yes this is good news but the data needs to be put in context.

A 15-20% drop in the pound has favourable benefit to pricing of exports.

However, during such rapid price movement periods due to external shocks time lags play a big role.

UK manufacturing will have purchased input stock for the production process in time period T-1 gets to sell produce at 15% discount to market and thus benefits in increased sales and profit and possibly at a better price in T+1.

Subsequent purchase of inputs will be more expensive than previous and so that one off price advantage will begin to fade away in following time periods T+2, T+3. In fact one of their bullet points indicate selling prices are expected to rise 23% in May having peaked at 32% in February.

Raising rates will not help either.


Bear in mind at the same time global economy is coming out of recession with strong growth in US, Asia and of course recovery in EU.

 

[Atilla]

....possibly because of the nuance of meaning between "dominate" and "domineer". IMHO Germany dominates the EU whilst the US is both somewhat dominant and domineering.

I think the word you are looking for is 'lead the EU' because it is very good and efficient at what it does.

 

[dbphoenix]

Trying to force 28 oddly shaped pegs into a single round hole is a fundamentally flawed idea, IMO.
Tim.

That's federalism. The US has been trying to do it with 13 to 50 pegs for many years. Whether or not we will ultimately succeed remains to be seen, but I suspect not.

 

[Atilla]

Here we go again. How many times do I have to explain supply and demand.

If the UK stops the mass unskilled immigration free for all, then wages will rise in the areas where there becomes short supply of labour. This is basic capitalism me ol china. This coupled with EU contribution savings and a reduction in benefit hand outs and a further reduction in the size of the state.

It's all going splendidly so far.

Another untruth.

Large number of immigration from the EU is in manufacturing where the UK has a shortage of skilled labour where it needs to bulk up.

Building and railways all need skilled labour.

No training from Government with expensive education and bursaries removed for nursing places you need to go back and think about your basic capitalism old bean. Feels strange calling you bean, as numbers not exactly your strong point are they. Maybe you should change your handle to Counting_Beans :cheesy:

 

[dbphoenix]

....possibly because of the nuance of meaning between "dominate" and "domineer". IMHO Germany dominates the EU whilst the US is both somewhat dominant and domineering.

I haven't parsed the subtleties between dominating and domineering, but let's just say that the US is extraordinarily arrogant. But then the UK is pretty arrogant as well. As for Germany, one has to place their attitude in context, which begins at least with the partitioning of Berlin and the Berlin Airlift on to the Berlin Wall and eventual reunification. Looking at where they are now, it's difficult not to admire them.

 

[cantagril]

I haven't parsed the subtleties between dominating and domineering, but let's just say that the US is extraordinarily arrogant. But then the UK is pretty arrogant as well. As for Germany, one has to place their attitude in context, which begins at least with the partitioning of Berlin and the Berlin Airlift on to the Berlin Wall and eventual reunification. Looking at where they are now, it's difficult not to admire them.

I trace it back to Kaiser Bill and the shoddy treatment he suffered as a youngster at the hands of his cousins in England

 

[Atilla]

Should be a good watch...

Who Should We Let In? Ian Hislop on the First Great Immigration Row

 

[Splitlink]

I trace it back to Kaiser Bill and the shoddy treatment he suffered as a youngster at the hands of his cousins in England

The tsar of Russia was another one, They were all cousins. Despots, the lot of 'em.

Except ours, of course. The Greeks, too. They, certainly, kept it in the family

 

[mike.]

Another untruth.

Large number of immigration from the EU is in manufacturing where the UK has a shortage of skilled labour where it needs to bulk up.

Building and railways all need skilled labour.

:

What in your opinion is the best solution to the above then ?

A. Bring in skilled foreign labour inc families.

B. Encourage company training scheems and train our youth and unemployed ?

Secondly....which of the above puts a massive strain on public services ? Housing, schools etc etc.....

I know you will come back with the old aged argument that immigration is good for the economy, thats nothing but political spin mainly from Cameron, due to the fact that it was out of control.