Brexit and the Consequences

[tomorton]

That's quite right jon, good democratic process encompasses opposition, debate and even protest.

And at the end of the day, if the simple majority of our representatives don't like what a government's proposed policy, they can stop it, amend it - or they can even force and election. All adequate and proven recourses without the need for any more referendums.

 

[timsk]

. . . The finger wagging at nearly half the population to "be silent" because you've lost is akin to instructing everyone to support Tory policies because they won the election (or to support Labour policies had they won).

Hi Jon,
With respect, you're reading too much into my comment. There's no 'finger wagging' from me. And I'm certainly not asking anyone to be silent - far from it. Indeed, one of the key reasons why I voted leave is because I believe in our democratic rights and I want to preserve them.

“The people have spoken” quote comes directly from a petition that's seeking to cancel Article 50 and reverse Brexit. I'm not for one minute questioning the rights of those who sign it to have a petition and to see where it leads them. On the contrary, I'd literally take up arms to defend their right to do exactly that. By the same token, given the context of that quote, surely it's reasonable for someone on the other side of the argument to point out the result of the referendum and to comment on the apparent irony? That's all I was doing; I'm not - and never would - want to silence those who happen to have views that differ to mine.
Tim.

 

[barjon]

Hi Jon,
With respect, you're reading too much into my comment. There's no 'finger wagging' from me. And I'm certainly not asking anyone to be silent - far from it. Indeed, one of the key reasons why I voted leave is because I believe in our democratic rights and I want to preserve them.

“The people have spoken” quote comes directly from a petition that's seeking to cancel Article 50 and reverse Brexit. I'm not for one minute questioning the rights of those who sign it to have a petition and to see where it leads them. On the contrary, I'd literally take up arms to defend their right to do exactly that. By the same token, given the context of that quote, surely it's reasonable for someone on the other side of the argument to point out the result of the referendum and to comment on the apparent irony? That's all I was doing; I'm not - and never would - want to silence those who happen to have views that differ to mine.
Tim.

Tim

It's the phrase that's beginning to grate. I know it's not yours and you don't use it as an excuse to shut people up which is why I didn't quote your post.

 

[Atilla]

fwiw - Prior to the elections, TM conduct was all under the radar.

I now find the level her ability to communicate and lead as well as approach and conduct not fit for the office of the land she held.

Always stunned and shocked how these people gnaw their way up the ladder.

Saw a prog on TV the other day about the campaign to rubbish Leadsom in the run up to her appointment. Whilst Boris and Gove and Leadsom was fighting it out in public she sneaked in at the end when Leadsom resigned. Who knows perhaps CV could have ended up being right. What a horrible thought. :cheesy:

Recently heard she's been in tears and her husband has been trying to comfort her.

.. :idea: ..

I'll tell you a story!!! Said with a Max Bygraves accent

I used to play competitive chess on Sundays. Entrance was £5 and you got to play three games, with 30m for each side to make all their moves. I was graded 121 at the time. Anyhow, once I was up against a 12-14 year old girl with ugly glasses from what I recakk. I was in my 20 somethings at the time.

So I castled and after a little pause she said you can't do that?

I asked why not? She said because you touched your rook first.

I said oh sorry but is it ok if you forgive my mistake and let the move stand. She said no, you now have to move your rook.




Shock horror. So I wasted a move by moving the rook which ruined my defense and left me out of position and she subsequently won. I felt very angry and cheated in losing the game. I admired her steely look through her ugly glasses for such a young person. Chess players are so very competitive. It's like war, it can be ruthless.


After severeal weeks we got to meet on the chess board again. This time I played exceptionally well and so very carefully and carried out my previous moves and castled successfully :cheesy: having learnt my lesson.

She lost. We shook hands and she remained seated and as I was getting up burst into tears. What a result. Beat the little sh1t and made her cry. At no point did I feel sorry or sad but utter pure joy and satisfaction seeing her in tears.

I feel the same about TM. She came across as a strong and stable leader when the country really needed someone to steady Parliament, only for us to discover a cold blooded snake had crept in.


Do I feel sorry or sad for TM. No not at all. Absolute relief and satisfaction at her demise and some sense now creeping into Brexit negotiations

 

[tomorton]

Fudging child abuse enquiry issues and continuing rotations of Chair.
Failed to lead effectively at PMQ's.
Failed to politically exploit divided Labour opposition to party leader, and LibDem and UKIP Commons weakness.
Fudging Hinkley Point power station decision.
Unable to project meaningful need for re-creation of grammar school system.
Called unnecessary election.
Excluded cabinet from election campaign.
Failed to convince voters what they were voting for.
Unable to portray convincing Brexit talks outcome.
Slung half-baked social care policy into the manifesto without proper consultation or planning.
Unable to re-unite cabinet after election.
Has promised misleading immigration performance.
Launched into cynical and desperate contract with deeply distasteful DUP.
Neglected victims and affected residents at Grenfell.
Nothing new achieved on prevention of terrorist attacks.

Nice trousers.

 

[Atilla]

That is shocking when you list her achievements like that. :cheesy:

Some people very good at rubbishing others who do good work.

This is why I think Farage is a bit of gob. Talks a good shop and delivers what exactly.

Peeps asking who on earth thought Brexit was a good idea??? Made me laf.

 

[counter_violent]

That is shocking when you list her achievements like that. :cheesy:

Some people very good at rubbishing others who do good work.

This is why I think Farage is a bit of gob. Talks a good shop and delivers what exactly.

Peeps asking who on earth thought Brexit was a good idea??? Made me laf.

Good job I'm back in front of the PC. This thread is going to pot. Time to redress the balance.

Ok, I thought it might be opportune to list Tim Farrons achievements whilst leader of the Lib Dems.

1)
2)
3)
4)
5)
6)
7)
8)
9)

10) He resigned.

Some list eh ! :clap:

 

[counter_violent]

I fear you'll be on a hiding to nothing there c_v. A triumph of hope over expectation. Don't get me wrong, I understand where you're coming from, but at the moment, all the talk is about the size of the divorce bill and how much the U.K. will have to cough up to the EU - not the other way around.

On the subject of petitions - and in the interests of fairness - a good friend of mine who voted remain (and yes, we're still good mates!) - sent me this link a few days ago: May: no deal means no Brexit. Just love the irony of the banner in the background of the picture on the campaign page which reads: “the people have spoken”. Indeed they have – on 23rd June last year! I suppose that if the number of signatories equals or exceeds the number who voted to leave - then that would be meaningful. However, at around just 85k so far - they've still got a little way to go!

Tim.

Hiding to nothing indeed.

This is the internet age, where everyone has a voice and I'm bloody well going to make sure that anyone negotiating on my behalf will not be allowed to give away any more of the countries silver.

It's a no brainer. Why would anyone be happy giving everything away?

 

[timsk]

. . .Why would anyone be happy giving everything away?

Hi c_v,
Well, they may not be happy, but then they may not have a choice. That said, I'll gladly be a signatory to your petition and I'll take great joy in sending it to my mate who sent me the 'May: no deal means no Brexit' petition that I posted earlier!
Tim.

 

[Atilla]

Hiding to nothing indeed.

This is the internet age, where everyone has a voice and I'm bloody well going to make sure that anyone negotiating on my behalf will not be allowed to give away any more of the countries silver.

It's a no brainer. Why would anyone be happy giving everything away?

Wow CV that really is so very specific.

You really have done your calculations well. Everything I reckon covers everything


Here you go, they can have my old kitchen sink too.

I'll just buy a new one.

 

[NVP]

Fudging child abuse enquiry issues and continuing rotations of Chair.
Failed to lead effectively at PMQ's.
Failed to politically exploit divided Labour opposition to party leader, and LibDem and UKIP Commons weakness.
Fudging Hinkley Point power station decision.
Unable to project meaningful need for re-creation of grammar school system.
Called unnecessary election.
Excluded cabinet from election campaign.
Failed to convince voters what they were voting for.
Unable to portray convincing Brexit talks outcome.
Slung half-baked social care policy into the manifesto without proper consultation or planning.
Unable to re-unite cabinet after election.
Has promised misleading immigration performance.
Launched into cynical and desperate contract with deeply distasteful DUP.
Neglected victims and affected residents at Grenfell.
Nothing new achieved on prevention of terrorist attacks.

Nice trousers.

she does a good job with head down and focussed agenda .......shes not cut out for the #1 position though

i actually bottled and didnt vote at the last minute .........i just cant get behind her as a leader ........no x factor........

no one is perfect as a leader .........but you have to have someone who appeals to the majority as a person with integrity , emotional empathy and leadership qualities

shes dropped the ball big time now over handling the recent tragedies ....

cant we see what obama is up to for next few years ? .....hey we use foreign English football managers ?

the other options are all pretty unsavory one way or another ......

Boris ?
Gove

simon cowell ?

umm the welsh male voice choir ?

god help us ......

N

 

[counter_violent]

Wow CV that really is so very specific.

You really have done your calculations well. Everything I reckon covers everything


Here you go, they can have my old kitchen sink too.

I'll just buy a new one.

The only calculating required is One of binding their hands.
I didn't expect you would get the point for a second

 

[seekingTruth16]

Hiding to nothing indeed.

This is the internet age, where everyone has a voice and I'm bloody well going to make sure that anyone negotiating on my behalf will not be allowed to give away any more of the countries silver.

It's a no brainer. Why would anyone be happy giving everything away?

I'd go further and stop all payments right now.

Also if WTO rules come in, I'd take all the tariffs we receive and use them to offset those we'll have to spend. We'll still be worse off there, but it would help.

I'd also start floating stories about how in the future, if we don't get our trade deal, EU members sending money back home to Poland etc, will have to pay repatriation tax to the UK. No intention to do it of course, but EU thinks it can have it all its own way. They need a scare or two.


Unfortunately though, I think politicians will let us down...again. We'll end up paying a big divorce bill, except it will be done in such a way that if you close your eyes and put your headphones on, you could fool yourself that we didn't pay it. It will go from rip-off divorce bill, to commitments we've made, to past debts that we built up over time and need to repay (or something like that)

 

[Atilla]

Good job I'm back in front of the PC. This thread is going to pot. Time to redress the balance.

Ok, I thought it might be opportune to list Tim Farrons achievements whilst leader of the Lib Dems.

1)
2)
3)
4)
5)
6)
7)
8)
9)

10) He resigned.

Some list eh ! :clap:

Tim Farron is/was a talented good leader. Most LibDems are and have their hearts in the right place. Unlike blood sucking Tory MPs out for themselves. Country deserves better.

In response to Tomorton's excellent post you revert to type and start attacking others. That's some BS deflection method you have there.

Also thought it was really p1ss poor of the media to question him on LBG rights every time he appeared on TV. It's the way Tories campaign. Aim for peoples lower instincts. Gutter daily trash sh1ters.


Here you go, knock your self out.

1. Under Tim LibDems have increased seats from 8 to 12?

 

[counter_violent]

Tim Farron is/was a talented good leader. Most LibDems are and have their hearts in the right place. Unlike blood sucking Tory MPs out for themselves. Country deserves better.

In response to Tomorton's excellent post you revert to type and start attacking others. That's some BS deflection method you have their.

Also thought it was really p1ss poor of the media to question him on LBG rights every time he appeared on TV. It's the way Tories campaign. Aim for peoples lower instincts. Gutter daily trash sh1ters.


Here you go, knock your self out.

1. Under Tim LibDems have increased seats from 8 to 12?

As pointed out previously, 3 of those so called gains were anti SNP seats

They have made zero progress matey !

 

[counter_violent]

I'd go further and stop all payments right now.

Also if WTO rules come in, I'd take all the tariffs we receive and use them to offset those we'll have to spend. We'll still be worse off there, but it would help.

I'd also start floating stories about how in the future, if we don't get our trade deal, EU members sending money back home to Poland etc, will have to pay repatriation tax to the UK. No intention to do it of course, but EU thinks it can have it all its own way. They need a scare or two.


Unfortunately though, I think politicians will let us down...again. We'll end up paying a big divorce bill, except it will be done in such a way that if you close your eyes and put your headphones on, you could fool yourself that we didn't pay it. It will go from rip-off divorce bill, to commitments we've made, to past debts that we built up over time and need to repay (or something like that)

I guess that translates to another backer for the petition

Every little helps.

 

[Jason101]

So if Brexit turns out not to have been such a great idea, we blame the negotiators, is this the new thing?

 

[counter_violent]

So if Brexit turns out not to have been such a great idea, we blame the negotiators, is this the new thing?

Yes, the European Ones.

 

[Atilla]

As pointed out previously, 3 of those so called gains were anti SNP seats

They have made zero progress matey !

What is it with numbers and your poor comprehension.

They gained 4 seats and if not for 12 Scottish Tory seats you'd be up the Kyber pass.

 

[counter_violent]

What is it with numbers and your poor comprehension.

They gained 4 seats and if not for 12 Scottish Tory seats you'd be up the Kyber pass.

12 Scots Tory gains, 13 seats in total. I know maths isn't your strong point Which is 4 times as many gains in Scotland as the Lib Dems.
Just face it...no progress, spent force Anyone seen Cleggers?

Brexit means Brexit.
Take back control.
No deal is better than a bad deal.