Brexit and the Consequences

[timsk]

Clarket or Heseltine for me. The old guard. That's what you can call strong and stable leadership. People will know exactly where they stand and how they conduct them selves.

Both elderly and wise and not power driven now either. Just elderly respectable gentlemen.

You've got to be joking. Heseltine, seriously? I fear you've spent too much time in the sun, Atilla!

 

[tomorton]

Both are way too elderly, and both are committed Remainers. Other than that, although its easy to find out how well they've done for themselves, its hard to find out what either believes in.

 

[Atilla]

Okaaayyyy then howzabout Hammond? :whistling





Well his a Remainer too. So we are left with Brexit or Betterin?


That's not going to fly winning elections! Tory party well and trully up the Khyber

 

[tomorton]

Agreed. The last effective Conservative politician was George Osborne - who would now be probably be the most unpopular candidate for leader within and outside his own party. Then again, what should we expect, starting from the David Cameron decision to hold an EU Referendum? None of them have been able to stop the snowball effect since he nudged it down the hill, against no effective official opposition at the time or since.

Take it from me Captain Mainwaring, we're dooooomed, doooomed d'ye hear me?

 

[Atilla]

Gove?
Boris?
Leadsom?


Help me out here guys I'm running out of Tory MPs.


Weren't the Labour party the ones who were split before TM united them

 

[Splitlink]

I did hear the argument "We want to be governed by Westminster". It seems that one year after the referendum, three months since Art 50 was presented in Brussels and, now, the first day of talks, that there is a serious leadership problem at Westminster.

This is a prime example of a divided nation and a referendum result with an insufficient majority.

 

[tomorton]

I did hear the argument "We want to be governed by Westminster". It seems that one year after the referendum, three months since Art 50 was presented in Brussels and, now, the first day of talks, that there is a serious leadership problem at Westminster.

This is a prime example of a divided nation and a referendum result with an insufficient majority.

That's what happens with a referendum. Its a tactic by frightened politicians unsure of why they're in power to govern, apart from the obvious benefits of power and money. A referendum automatically divides the electorate in two, with no authoritative result from the outcome. An administration that needs to ask the voters what's the right thing to do is inherently unfit.

 

[timsk]

. . .Help me out here guys I'm running out of Tory MPs.

David Davis is your man Atilla. If he does well in the Brexit negotiations - which I'm confident he will - then he'll emerge as the hero of the hour and will walk it to No 10. He has a calm and authoritative air about him. Confident without coming across as arrogant and a warmth that the Conservative party so desperately needs in a leader - after the callous, ice cold insensitivity shown Miss Jean Brodie, aka Theresa May. Other than him, all I can tell you is that my 92 year old aunt has the hots for Philip Hammond and wants him as our next PM.
Tim.

 

[Atilla]

David Davis is your man Atilla. If he does well in the Brexit negotiations - which I'm confident he will - then he'll emerge as the hero of the hour and will walk it to No 10. He has a calm and authoritative air about him. Confident without coming across as arrogant and a warmth that the Conservative party so desperately needs in a leader - after the callous, ice cold insensitivity shown Miss Jean Brodie, aka Theresa May. Other than him, all I can tell you is that my 92 year old aunt has the hots for Philip Hammond and wants him as our next PM.
Tim.

Tell your aunt I'm a young retiree and have taken a fancy to her beautiful mind.



You too should listen to her as wisdom is hard to come by these days

 

[barjon]

David Davis is your man Atilla. If he does well in the Brexit negotiations - which I'm confident he will - then he'll emerge as the hero of the hour and will walk it to No 10. He has a calm and authoritative air about him. Confident without coming across as arrogant and a warmth that the Conservative party so desperately needs in a leader - after the callous, ice cold insensitivity shown Miss Jean Brodie, aka Theresa May. Other than him, all I can tell you is that my 92 year old aunt has the hots for Philip Hammond and wants him as our next PM.
Tim.

Blimey, DD is so second-rate he's almost off the scale, which is why he was gradually pushed into the long grass a couple of years ago. Just shows the paucity of talent around in the Tory party that he is now touted around as leader. I think your 92 year old aunt would probably be a much better bet

 

[Splitlink]

David Davis is your man Atilla. If he does well in the Brexit negotiations - which I'm confident he will - then he'll emerge as the hero of the hour and will walk it to No 10. He has a calm and authoritative air about him. Confident without coming across as arrogant and a warmth that the Conservative party so desperately needs in a leader - after the callous, ice cold insensitivity shown Miss Jean Brodie, aka Theresa May. Other than him, all I can tell you is that my 92 year old aunt has the hots for Philip Hammond and wants him as our next PM.
Tim.

This 85 year old has a hot spot for female Scottish accents. Guess who I'm talking about! BTW, female Spanish accents are better.

 

[Atilla]

More facts and numbers from BBG

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2017-brexit-by-numbers/

 

[Splitlink]

That's what happens with a referendum. Its a tactic by frightened politicians unsure of why they're in power to govern, apart from the obvious benefits of power and money. A referendum automatically divides the electorate in two, with no authoritative result from the outcome. An administration that needs to ask the voters what's the right thing to do is inherently unfit.

You are against referendums, period. I am, too, but I was resignrd to accepting a larger win by one side, or the other. Cameron, really, should have insisted on that, beforehand. However, done is done, I suppose.

 

[Atilla]

Off-topic perhaps but I've been wondering how one judges what is wise and prudent and what is foolhardy and ill advised?

Tough one

 

[counter_violent]

The petitions site is still down....not by accident i'm sure.

https://petition.parliament.uk/

I'll be looking for 5 seconders to get my petition off the ground, as and when the new comittee is selected and the site comes back up. It will be along the lines of ensuring our govt argues for the UK's rightful share of EU assets to be included in the upcoming negotiations and settlement.

Who's in ?

 

[timsk]

. . . It will be along the lines of ensuring our govt argues for the UK's rightful share of EU assets to be included in the upcoming negotiations and settlement.

I fear you'll be on a hiding to nothing there c_v. A triumph of hope over expectation. Don't get me wrong, I understand where you're coming from, but at the moment, all the talk is about the size of the divorce bill and how much the U.K. will have to cough up to the EU - not the other way around.

On the subject of petitions - and in the interests of fairness - a good friend of mine who voted remain (and yes, we're still good mates!) - sent me this link a few days ago: May: no deal means no Brexit. Just love the irony of the banner in the background of the picture on the campaign page which reads: “the people have spoken”. Indeed they have – on 23rd June last year! I suppose that if the number of signatories equals or exceeds the number who voted to leave - then that would be meaningful. However, at around just 85k so far - they've still got a little way to go!

Tim.

 

[Atilla]

I fear you'll be on a hiding to nothing there c_v. A triumph of hope over expectation. Don't get me wrong, I understand where you're coming from, but at the moment, all the talk is about the size of the divorce bill and how much the U.K. will have to cough up to the EU - not the other way around.

On the subject of petitions - and in the interests of fairness - a good friend of mine who voted remain (and yes, we're still good mates!) - sent me this link a few days ago: May: no deal means no Brexit. Just love the irony of the banner in the background of the picture on the campaign page which reads: “the people have spoken”. Indeed they have – on 23rd June last year! I suppose that if the number of signatories equals or exceeds the number who voted to leave - then that would be meaningful. However, at around just 85k so far - they've still got a little way to go!

Tim.

Problem with this is simply that people don't speak once and then stop.

It is also very difficult to comprehend what is meant by leave means leave when the issues are so complex on how we leave?

I'm glad it makes perfect sense to you

 

[Oscar Reed]

I fear you'll be on a hiding to nothing there c_v. A triumph of hope over expectation. Don't get me wrong, I understand where you're coming from, but at the moment, all the talk is about the size of the divorce bill and how much the U.K. will have to cough up to the EU - not the other way around.

On the subject of petitions - and in the interests of fairness - a good friend of mine who voted remain (and yes, we're still good mates!) - sent me this link a few days ago: May: no deal means no Brexit. Just love the irony of the banner in the background of the picture on the campaign page which reads: “the people have spoken”. Indeed they have – on 23rd June last year! I suppose that if the number of signatories equals or exceeds the number who voted to leave - then that would be meaningful. However, at around just 85k so far - they've still got a little way to go!

Tim.

Stone the Crows

 

[tomorton]

Problem with this is simply that people don't speak once and then stop.

It is also very difficult to comprehend what is meant by leave means leave when the issues are so complex on how we leave?

I'm glad it makes perfect sense to you

Absolutely it does. Its also a good summing up of why a referendum on whether we accept the Brexit terms in 2 years time would be another divisive disaster.

The government put up 12 objectives for the Brexit deal. Suppose we achieve 11 - is a majority enough? Maybe the one we didn't get is the most important to some people? Or maybe we only get 3 - though these are the most important for the benefit of the economy many people are more interested in the 9 we didn't get. Maybe the whole process takes twice as long as the government outlined and a referendum just disintegrates into an anti-incumbent protest vote.

 

[barjon]

Without wishing to chew over old arguments I can't help but point out that much less than half the "people have spoken" to leave and only just over half of those who voted. Quite enough for a win, of course, but not enough for cocky jubilance ( even my golf club needs a 60% win to change its constitution).

The finger wagging at nearly half the population to "be silent" because you've lost is akin to instructing everyone to support Tory policies because they won the election (or to support Labour policies had they won).