Bob Volman Price Action Scalping

[BLS]

I spotted those setups too.

Also, now I remember having my finger on the mouse for that 2nd RB but it broke so fast that I didn't want to take it. It instantly shot down like 5 pips and never came back for a retest. Bummer! Oh well. Even though it did travel quite a ways, waiting for an economical entry was probably the right decision.

It popped down 1-2 pip past my desired entry before I could even think "trade" but I took it anyway because I thought the pressure was enough for me to trade. But if it popped 5 pip down past the desired entry on your chart, then yeah, it might be better to skip it. I did end up closing my trade out 0.5 pip short of target. I did not want to risk it.

As for your tick charts, you probably have less bars because MB Trading has less tick data than ProRealTime does.

 

[samich1262]

Whoa! I re-loaded my 70 Tick chart and now it looks a lot more like yours. I wonder why I was getting a slower feed? It still said 70 tick at the top but the bars were plotting waaaay slow. Man, I missed some out on a couple obvious trades, but hey at least I figured it out, can't complain. Maybe I should switch to Pro Real Time or get a different feed, MBT's doesn't seem very reliable. I used to use their chart and it crashed a lot.

 

[samich1262]

Got one on the GBP this morning. Didn't see anything on EUR/USD so I glanced at GBP/USD and caught a really nice range break. I also played the DD shortly after, but as soon as I saw that the price action wasn't uniform/trending down, I cut it for a 2 pip profit. The resuming downtrend was noticeably weaker and facing more resistance than the counter-trend. Normally I wouldn't cut a trade before the tipping point but I decided that this one wasn't trending.
This is similar to the situation Vanica brought up yesterday. I suspected that it might not go back for a retest since the RB was strong and it was below the round number, but right now it has climbed all the way back into the range. I guess these can be traded but need to be traded very cautiously. I am just glad that I was able to get myself to hit the Sell button this time and get in on some trades!

 

[vanica]

Hey Samich, nice work! This DD looks very good. I suppose there were enough reasons to take it, not only it met all the criteria, the overall context with market gradually trending down was also supportive. I'm sure I would have stayed in this trade until my stop got hit.

 

[vanica]

Agree, eur/usd has been very quiet today. I'm trying to be more selective at the moment and pay more attention to the bigger picture but started the day not too successfully.

 

[samich1262]

Yeah, seems like today on EUR/USD I've only seen coutertrend BBs that did work out, but I'm not super comfortable taking them. They look like they've only got about 7 pip before resistance so I skipped them. Saw a with-trend possible BB at 8:30 that worked out, but it came after some slightly blocky price-action so I skipped that too. I think it's just temporary since EUR/USD hit 1.24 this week. Everybody is cautious because it's running up against the June lows, so we're stuck with ranging price action until it picks a direction. Could make for a nice move next week though.

 

[samich1262]

Wow. With a little more experience this could have been a seriously good morning. I posted the two trades I took earlier, but I hesitated to take some easy ones later. Above is my EUR/USD analysis, sorry that the arrows don't look that fantastic. Unfortunately I skipped all of these trades. I am clearly looking for perfect textbook setups and need to stop passing up other valid opportunities, but the more I spot different scenarios within each setup, the easier it will be to get in on some of these.

That first arrow was a Second Break, but I didn't like it because that top before the SB had 4 equal touches. I thought the pullback wasn't diagonal enough, but it does form on top of support.

I didn't think the 2nd trade had a long enough pullback. It only makes it about 30% but it does have round number support AND pulled back almost 10 pip. So it really doesn't have any resistance in front of it. Should have taken that one for sure.

With the 3rd setup, skipping this is defensible. I thought it pulled back too far, but then again, some of Bob Volman's setups pull back almost 100%. It's got around 8 or 9 pip before it hits resistance, but what really kept me out of this one is the top had 5 equal touches (sorry, I cut the top of the chart off on accident). That made me think that it might hit resistance up there. However, if I had taken this, I would have closed it early when it formed a lower high. Might not have been necessary, but it looked like it was forming a skewed head and shoulders pattern which made me think the trend was coming to an end. Still would have been about a 6 pip profit.



This is the other chart I was watching this morning, the CAD/USD. Sometimes this pair has some nice textbook setups, but if it's not real clear I don't trade it since it's a little slower-moving. However, there was major news out this morning at 8:30 EST and it was moving pretty well this morning.

1st setup looked like a BB to me since it had been trending down.

The 2nd setup is technically an SB that I skipped, but I did not think it was a valid setup. I did not think it pulled back far enough, and the SB was so tiny that I didn't like it. The size really shouldn't matter, but without a bigger pullback, I didn't feel comfortable with it.

Next was a DD forming on resistance. Went to take this one, but I use a separate trading platform than my chart, and I couldn't get the platform switched over to USD/CAD fast enough. I plan to get two monitors in a couple months to solve this problem.

The last one is the clearest formation here, a nice BB. I missed it because I was busy watching the EUR/USD chart.

I missed these, but I did get 2 trades in this morning and that's progress for me. I just think of my brain as a market DVR that is recording all of the setups I see and their various contexts. When I've seen them enough, I'll eventually get over the entry jitters.

 

[BLS]

I didn't take any of those EUR/USD trades either. I guess I'm just not that comfortable taking with-trend trades than I am taking ranging trades.

 

[samich1262]

Yeah, a clear RB can be a comfort sine there's such an obvious support zone. It's funny, when I first started, I was taking more with trend trades than I am now. However, something that's been helping me get more confident with my trade management is that whenever I miss a trade and I know it early on, I watch it and pretend I'm in on it, and try to decide where my tipping point would be. I think it helps to practice the trade management part of it as much as you can. For me, I really think part of what makes me anxious about taking trades is not having as much practice with trade management as I do with identifying setups.

 

[johnwolf]

vanica,

Can you explain where are you thinking the trend was? It's not clear to me from your notes.

John

 

[stljeffbb]

After some experimenting I decided to write to Bob about the tick chart situation, and he was good enough to respond. Basically Bob made the following points:

1. 30 second charts are probably close enough to the 70 tick to trade effectively, though he prefers the 70 tick.

2. The bigger problem with the free brokerage feeds is the issue of pipettes. If you have pipettes, you can't accurately see signals because the closes don't line up neatly.

I found that over the span of 1 hour during the liquid NY session (from around 10 to 11 am EST), the 30 second chart produced 120 candles, while the 70 tick ProRealTime produced 100 candles. The moving averages look very similar.

I also tried an Oanda MT4 20 tick chart based on the mods I described earlier, and got 67 candles during that same interval, which is 33% fewer bars than the 70 tick ProRealTime. Moving average is also similar despite the lower resolution.

Unfortunately I noticed there was quite a bit of variance with the MT4 mod, at certain points in the trading session the 70 tick ProRealTime and the 20 tick MT4 were practically 1:1 perfect with each other, with the 20 tick producing slightly more bars than the 70. Then the 20 tick ended up lagging as indicated above. Whether this is due to bad live data from Oanda or whatnot, I can't say.

The pipette issue is not resolvable in MT4. What I was able to do in Oanda's web trader interface was to disable pipettes, but that will not make the candles align to the pip. It makes the price quotes omit pipettes and puts a full pip magnet to the take profit and stop order lines. I always show the bid and ask lines of my orders which is a full pip in width, that helps me see the full pip width and makes sure I'm aware of how volatile the market is currently trading.

Anyway, I'll see if I can find any other way of keeping my costs down as I'm learning this system.

Does anybody have any suggestions on how they approached this book? Do you keep it as a reference when you trade? Do you regularly re-read the chapters? Is it better to read the whole thing once through and then selectively re-read? Just looking for some suggestions.

Hello everyone....wow, this is my first post here, although I have definitely lurked a lot here at T2W....

I use OANDA/MT4, and a while back I purchased a commercially available plug-in that enables tick charts on above mentioned platform...my main question is: does anyone else have experiences with 70 tick ProRealTime versus 20 tick OANDA?

Trading with a small amount of real money on OANDA every morning (US), I can say from experience that sometimes the OANDA/MT4 platform does freeze up (while their fxTrade still merrily rolls along), but I wonder if we simply get less ticks at OANDA versus other feeds? Also, since I'm on the subject, I do notice sometiimes that either fxTrade or OANDA/MT4 will move when the other does not...I've seen this on many occasions, and while it is "only one or two ticks", that could make a difference...

I did purchase Volman's book, and I look forward to working with his ideas!

Thanks,

Jeff

 

[samich1262]

Hello everyone....wow, this is my first post here, although I have definitely lurked a lot here at T2W....

I use OANDA/MT4, and a while back I purchased a commercially available plug-in that enables tick charts on above mentioned platform...my main question is: does anyone else have experiences with 70 tick ProRealTime versus 20 tick OANDA?

Trading with a small amount of real money on OANDA every morning (US), I can say from experience that sometimes the OANDA/MT4 platform does freeze up (while their fxTrade still merrily rolls along), but I wonder if we simply get less ticks at OANDA versus other feeds? Also, since I'm on the subject, I do notice sometiimes that either fxTrade or OANDA/MT4 will move when the other does not...I've seen this on many occasions, and while it is "only one or two ticks", that could make a difference...

I did purchase Volman's book, and I look forward to working with his ideas!

Thanks,

Jeff

Hi Jeff,

I haven't used the 20 tick, but I did use a tick plugin for MT4 and have tried Oanda. I had critical delays with Oanda so I went elsewhere. Used FXCM for awhile and tried a 70 tick plugin, but it didn't look very accurate to me. Ended up switching to Fastbrokers, but their tick chart only goes up to 30 ticks and I'm not sure you can get rid of the pippettes. So for right now I'm using ProRealTime for my chart software, but I use the PathFinder platform with Fastbrokers to take my trades. I actually have the controls minimized down at the bottom of the screen so they're both on the same monitor. Not ideal I guess, but it really doesn't cause any problems. So you could get ProRealTime data and use OandaFX if that platform is more reliable. Just looking at the data feed compared to other MT4 brokers, Oanda's was waaay behind when I tried it, although I read that they had experienced a server crash earlier that month. It might be better now, but I chose to avoid them.

I used Ninja Trader for awhile but their 70 tick chart with an MBTrading feed was not really a 70 tick. It was more like a 200 Tick chart (or maybe it was just missing some data, not sure), and I was missing out on a lot of trades or messing up on RBs because it wasn't showing pressure accurately. When I reload historical data it is fine but it can't plot correctly in live trading. It could just be the feed, not sure. I just switched to ProRealTime yesterday and it seems much more accurate.

 

[BLS]

Agree, eur/usd has been very quiet today. I'm trying to be more selective at the moment and pay more attention to the bigger picture but started the day not too successfully.

I did consider trading this setup but I had some computer problems and missed the break. I think the trade was ok, just that the outcome wasn't.

 

[stljeffbb]

Hi Jeff,

I haven't used the 20 tick, but I did use a tick plugin for MT4 and have tried Oanda. I had critical delays with Oanda so I went elsewhere. Used FXCM for awhile and tried a 70 tick plugin, but it didn't look very accurate to me. Ended up switching to Fastbrokers, but their tick chart only goes up to 30 ticks and I'm not sure you can get rid of the pippettes. So for right now I'm using ProRealTime for my chart software, but I use the PathFinder platform with Fastbrokers to take my trades. I actually have the controls minimized down at the bottom of the screen so they're both on the same monitor. Not ideal I guess, but it really doesn't cause any problems. So you could get ProRealTime data and use OandaFX if that platform is more reliable. Just looking at the data feed compared to other MT4 brokers, Oanda's was waaay behind when I tried it, although I read that they had experienced a server crash earlier that month. It might be better now, but I chose to avoid them.

I used Ninja Trader for awhile but their 70 tick chart with an MBTrading feed was not really a 70 tick. It was more like a 200 Tick chart (or maybe it was just missing some data, not sure), and I was missing out on a lot of trades or messing up on RBs because it wasn't showing pressure accurately. When I reload historical data it is fine but it can't plot correctly in live trading. It could just be the feed, not sure. I just switched to ProRealTime yesterday and it seems much more accurate.

Hello samich1262...thanks for the reply....hmmm, my next idea/question is this: Who has a MT4 datafeed similar to ProRealTime? The mods TonyIommich mentioned should work on any MT4 platform (I have tinkered with those a bit), so it could be as easy as finding a live or demo feed from a broker that fairly closely mimics ProRealTime, but of course this might be impossible....it also makes me wonder, if one feed has so many more data points, why is there so much difference (I have my hunches)...

Indeed, data feeds can vary greatly....it seems the Gain (Forex.com) feed that used to be the staple of free Ninjatrader charting around the world still operates in half pip increments...

It would be rather easy to compare different MT4 brokers....simply get out a one minute EURUSD chart on each of them and use the volume indicator...for forex in MT4, this indicator actually shows how many times the price moved in a given bar, NOT the size of the orders...of course, I'm hoping not to have to reinvent the wheel as they say and manually sign up for accounts and then download like six different MT4 platforms on my computer (!) ...still, if I must, I will...

It seems that TonyIommich was close to the mark with his 20 tick OANDA notion based on one minute volumes...I do not agree that having pipettes breaks the method....one just has to learn how to read it appropiately....a doji with some pipettes still has a small body, and with 70-tick charts this should still ramify itself as what it is...indecision.....

Regards,

Jeff

 

[samich1262]

Hello samich1262...thanks for the reply....hmmm, my next idea/question is this: Who has a MT4 datafeed similar to ProRealTime? The mods TonyIommich mentioned should work on any MT4 platform (I have tinkered with those a bit), so it could be as easy as finding a live or demo feed from a broker that fairly closely mimics ProRealTime, but of course this might be impossible....it also makes me wonder, if one feed has so many more data points, why is there so much difference (I have my hunches)...

Indeed, data feeds can vary greatly....it seems the Gain (Forex.com) feed that used to be the staple of free Ninjatrader charting around the world still operates in half pip increments...

It would be rather easy to compare different MT4 brokers....simply get out a one minute EURUSD chart on each of them and use the volume indicator...for forex in MT4, this indicator actually shows how many times the price moved in a given bar, NOT the size of the orders...of course, I'm hoping not to have to reinvent the wheel as they say and manually sign up for accounts and then download like six different MT4 platforms on my computer (!) ...still, if I must, I will...

It seems that TonyIommich was close to the mark with his 20 tick OANDA notion based on one minute volumes...I do not agree that having pipettes breaks the method....one just has to learn how to read it appropiately....a doji with some pipettes still has a small body, and with 70-tick charts this should still ramify itself as what it is...indecision.....

Regards,

Jeff

Hey Jeff, I'm not sure about the other mods. I'm not even sure which one I tried. You're right, it can be done without 1 pip increments, but it is more difficult to accurately judge RBs and BBs. I kept messing up RBs and that's what drove me away from MBTrading's tick chart. Their MBT Desktop software was good, it just plotted in pippettes. If you don't mind that, you can sign up for one of their free demo accounts. Sorry I don't know more about the MT4 mods. I have read on some forums that some people have been able to find a mod to do what you are looking for though.

 

[stljeffbb]

Hey Jeff, I'm not sure about the other mods. I'm not even sure which one I tried. You're right, it can be done without 1 pip increments, but it is more difficult to accurately judge RBs and BBs. I kept messing up RBs and that's what drove me away from MBTrading's tick chart. Their MBT Desktop software was good, it just plotted in pippettes. If you don't mind that, you can sign up for one of their free demo accounts. Sorry I don't know more about the MT4 mods. I have read on some forums that some people have been able to find a mod to do what you are looking for though.

Yeah, I actually have a tick chart generator for MT4 that I bought and it works very well...a fair bit easier IMHO than the tick chart mods TonyIommich used ...now I'm just looking for a MT4 feed that will (as close as possible) mimic the ProRealTime feed....not sure this is possible...

Regards,

Jeff

 

[vanica]

View attachment 142458

Samich, I completely understand why you skipped these with-trend trades. At least I did the same. Though in a hindsight they all worked when watching the market unfold one could find enough reasons to pass on each of them. As you mentioned, the shape of the pullback preceeding the SB, the possible round number resistance in the first DD and the deep pullback much below the EMA in the second were just enogh for a bit more defensive trader. Considering how quiet and ranging the market has been recently I assume it's ok to be more picky with trend resumption setups.

 

[vanica]

vanica,

Can you explain where are you thinking the trend was? It's not clear to me from your notes.

John

Hey John, I did think that there were some clues of bears winning the fight on the earlier part of the chart, but this particular range had enough iformation contained within it to make a decision on the direction of the trade. My main reasoning was the sequence of lower highs and well defined bottom barrier.

 

[stljeffbb]

Hello everyone...I took samich1262's advice and downloaded MBTrading's demo MT4 EXN platform. Even though it is only one day (Friday August 10, 2012), the results comparing the feeds between OANDA MT4 and MBT MT4 interesting! ...

The first image is OANDA's live feed, the second MBT's EXN demo feed...one can see that the volume on the MBT feed appears to be "healthier" and seemingly much closer to the "70 tick = roughly 30 seconds" standard...a couple of other things jump out at me too...

When you look at the pictures in rapid succession, you might notice that OANDA's prices are a bit "lower"...also, the spikes in OANDA volume roughly correlate with the ones on MBT, but there is a big downdraft in the volume on OANDA after the spikes where we do not see this as much on MBT...

hmmmmmm

Regards,

Jeff

 

[bling23]

I just stumbled on this thread today.
Have been trading Bob's method for the past few months now, still trying to get the hang of it.

My win/loss ratio stands at about even, with loss slightly more =(

I refer to your E4 below, it seems I always face that problem.
More often, I find myself trying to stick closely to Bob's RB but no matter how it looks, somehow my entry ends up becoming a false break or tease break like yours.

I find that happening so often (about half the time), even though there is proper squeeze.

Anyone have any comments on E4-ish kind of pattern?

Tough day.

E1 (-0.3 pip) : Resistance at the 40 level was too strong and it ruined this RB trade. I had many opportunities to bail out for some profit but I kept my calm and managed this trade the best I could. With prices having trouble clearing the 00 level I trailed my stop carefully, trying to make sure that it wasn't too aggressive. I get stopped out eventually for a small loss.

E2 (-4.1 pip): I thought it was worth the risk to see if prices could clear the 40 level this time so I didn't take too much stock of the visible chart resistance (ellipse) around the 40 level from my first trade. In hindsight I think I should've skipped this trade. I probably should have stopped trading as long as prices were stuck in this range (roughly between the 20 and 40 levels). But everything is clearer in hindsight. I think I was pressing for trades because I wanted to make more money than I did last week and I was a bit frustrated with this price action.

E3 (-6.7 pip): Here I go again trying to buy into obvious resistance with this IRB trade. I thought the bears were losing the fight when I saw that false break to the downside of the IRB setup but they had one last trick up their sleeve. Maybe today just wasn't a good day. Maybe I should've just sat on my hands and waited for prices to clear this range.

E4 (-5.9 pip): I thought this was a really nice trade. We have a series of distinct lower lows and clear level of support that the bulls were defending well. The bears are shorting at lower and lower levels while the bulls are buying at the same level again and again. A classic squeeze situation right? I thought so. Turns out that low (white arrow) was an even stronger level of support and the bulls came pouring in when that level was hit again. In hindsight I probably should have paid more attention to that low given how strongly the bulls reacted to the first time but the signal line, that support level, was just so strong that I may have taken this trade anyway.