Asian Coronavirus Outbreak

[David Knight]

So it’s a hoax, is it? Perpetrated by whom?

All over the world governments have nuked their economies for no good reason then? Is it credible that they are that stupid? Or is it possible that they know a bit more than you do?

You've had decades to research the answer.

Btw, Denis Healey knew a thing or two

 

[David Knight]

For those who get a little bit hostile when their world view is challenged:

We Are Entering An Era Of Shattered Illusions | The Sleuth Journal

www.thesleuthjournal.com

 

[trendie]

For those who get a little bit hostile when their world view is challenged:

We Are Entering An Era Of Shattered Illusions | The Sleuth Journal

www.thesleuthjournal.com

So, are we being manipulated by the Bilderberg elites who want the rest of our money, or are we being gamed by the Chinese who have created a virus, and are now capitalising on it by selling us medical equipment, for a longer-term game-plan? Or, are they in cahoots?
I am confused as to which conspiracy to believe in.

Conspiracy theories generally involve believing that every event is controlled, or orchestrated by some hidden power, or some nefarious secret cabal.
This appeals to people who crave some kind of order or structure, even if its evil.
Every event cannot, in their eyes be seen as random, everything needs to have a purpose.

But, I am of the opinion that people are essentially stupid, groups more so, that there are multiple and conflicting motivations, resulting in odd and random, and sometimes comical apparent coincidences.
We are stumbling, bumbling, blindly through life, and random discoveries enhance our existence, and random tragedies are too horrific to contemplate that there isnt some order behind them.

I suspect people who believe in conspiracies, also believe the universe conspired to put the stars in the sky to resemble farm implements, animals, or heroic humans, that can only make sense from our part of the universe, or our specific moment in time.

 

[barjon]

You've had decades to research the answer.

Btw, Denis Healey knew a thing or two

Yup, Denis was one of the heavyweights. We could do with a few of those nowadays. But you haven’t answered the question as to who has perpetrated the hoax. Just popping the ball back into my court is no good because I’m obviously too dim to work it out.

 

[MasterOfCoin]

So, are we being manipulated by the Bilderberg elites who want the rest of our money, or are we being gamed by the Chinese who have created a virus, and are now capitalising on it by selling us medical equipment, for a longer-term game-plan? Or, are they in cahoots?
I am confused as to which conspiracy to believe in.

Conspiracy theories generally involve believing that every event is controlled, or orchestrated by some hidden power, or some nefarious secret cabal.
This appeals to people who crave some kind of order or structure, even if its evil.
Every event cannot, in their eyes be seen as random, everything needs to have a purpose.

But, I am of the opinion that people are essentially stupid, groups more so, that there are multiple and conflicting motivations, resulting in odd and random, and sometimes comical apparent coincidences.
We are stumbling, bumbling, blindly through life, and random discoveries enhance our existence, and random tragedies are too horrific to contemplate that there isnt some order behind them.

Some of us take a more pragmatic view, otherwise known as comprehensively bungled cock-up theory.

There can scarcely can be a more rational and reasonable explanation for the catastrophically incompetent mismanaged mess and mayhem we find ourselves being subjected to by those pro-porting to be preventing impending disaster.

I'll say again, that as far as I can reasonably conclude overall, by far the biggest impact on human life and costs in misery and poverty to be expected here, will be caused not by the relatively ordinary virus itself in the short term, but by the near maniacal response to deal with it, in the longer term.

I don't doubt that many of those involved in bringing this disastrous debacle about sincerely believe that they are doing the right thing for all the very best reasons, but I reflect that any actual reasoning has been abandoned in the process.

The road to hell was ever paved with good intentions and there can be little doubt that the lunatics are most certainly running the asylum.

😷

 

[David Knight]

Yup, Denis was one of the heavyweights. We could do with a few of those nowadays. But you haven’t answered the question as to who has perpetrated the hoax. Just popping the ball back into my court is no good because I’m obviously too dim to work it out.

I didn't come here to call anybody dim

But the problem is there are no simple answers to simple questions.

Demanding a simple answer is what society wants. And we are are given simple answers because that is what we want and that is what suits those in power who would rather not be held accountable.

The public debate is a controlled environment, partly a result of us not wanting to do the heavy work and partly because it suits those controlling it.


Do you think I read the entire Maastricht treaty before I voted leave?

How many backbenchers have ever read it?

Do you think there's a good chance that Nigel has read every word and could probably quote some of it?

That's not how we do things. We rely on someone we like the look of and sound of to tell some of us what to think. / otffer a deeper insight.

No one is controlling the debate here,. They tend to focus on facetwittertube

So..
It will take more than one post to answer your Q Barjon for the very reason I said earlier.


Did you read that article?

 

[Atilla]

I didn't come here to call anybody dim

But the problem is there are no simple answers to simple questions.

Demanding a simple answer is what society wants. And we are are given simple answers because that is what we want and that is what suits those in power who would rather not be held accountable.

The public debate is a controlled environment, partly a result of us not wanting to do the heavy work and partly because it suits those controlling it.


Do you think I read the entire Maastricht treaty before I voted leave?

How many backbenchers have ever read it?

Do you think there's a good chance that Nigel has read every word and could probably quote some of it?

That's not how we do things. We rely on someone we like the look of and sound of to tell some of us what to think. / otffer a deeper insight.

No one is controlling the debate here,. They tend to focus on facetwittertube

So..
It will take more than one post to answer your Q Barjon for the very reason I said earlier.


Did you read that article?

In my informed opinion and experience, you are wrong about Brexit.

I don't know why you keep mixing it up with the Crona fiasco.

As it happens due to Crona or flight bans or Brexit - whatever the root cause, right now farm crops stand a good chance of going unpicked. Farmers can't get the pickers (usual Romanian and Bulgarian seasonal workers). UK labour force not up to speed, have desire to pick for min wage. Heard on radio out of the usual 120 labourers, one particular farm only has 12 or so. If stuff doesn't get picked we'll be importing or prices rising due to shortage of supply.

Just another Brexit dividend so some may say.

However, you keep pushing Brexit angle as if it is some kind of government cover up to hood wink joe public. It is simply a choice of membership to the EU common market and more recently political union. Because it makes good sense. Having said all that...

With respect to this virus, I concur, our response the cure seems to be worse than the disease. The argument that our Government must know better otherwise they wouldn't lead us into all this misery has never stopped our government into wars the people have no interest in. It's just that powerful big industry with hands in the pockets of politicains in the name of national interest (ie pursuit of energy or colonial resources) have often led the people into wreckless wars.

 

[David Knight]

So, are we being manipulated by the Bilderberg elites who want the rest of our money, or are we being gamed by the Chinese who have created a virus, and are now capitalising on it by selling us medical equipment, for a longer-term game-plan? Or, are they in cahoots?
I am confused as to which conspiracy to believe in.

Conspiracy theory is a term coined by the CIA .
Does the government Lie?
If yes, then that is a conspiracy against you and me.

There is truth and there is narrative. Conspiracy theory is narrative. Don't let it control you.

If I had to choose between a flat earther and someone who watches CNN or ch4 I choose flat earther.
To question something is the first step.

Flat earthers can change their mind. Flat earthers never killed a million Iraqis on a pack of lies..was that a conspiracy theory?


Conspiracy theories generally involve believing that every event is controlled, or orchestrated by some hidden power, or some nefarious secret cabal.
This appeals to people who crave some kind of order or structure, even if its evil.
Every event cannot, in their eyes be seen as random, everything needs to have a purpose.

I'm sorry Trendie, but you are singing from the Hymn sheet somebody else handed you- almost word for word
Some of us want the truth, no matter what the truth is. Some of us would rather not know.

But, I am of the opinion that people are essentially stupid, groups more so, that there are multiple and conflicting motivations, resulting in odd and random, and sometimes comical apparent coincidences.

People are essentially several things. In my experience we are basically kind and caring because of empathy- sociopaths do not have empathy. If you want to know who they are look at what they do and ask yourself if you could do the same.

But.. there are many shades of grey- if I'm competing with you for something my empathy factor might suffer a temp power loss. And it wouldn't be personal, it would be business.

Essentially stupid? I would say it's essential not to be. But that's a bit facetious. Uneducated perhaps, but their instinct is often pretty good. Those ancient body reading skills and gut feeling - that's a curve that the deputy chief medical lady isn't going to flatten out any time soon.

We are stumbling, bumbling, blindly through life, and random discoveries enhance our existence, and random tragedies are too horrific to contemplate that there isnt some order behind them.

Well, then you have to explain history and why it was never differnt this time. I'll leave that hanging..

I suspect people who believe in conspiracies, also believe the universe conspired to put the stars in the sky to resemble farm implements, animals, or heroic humans, that can only make sense from our part of the universe, or our specific moment in time.

So, are we being manipulated by the Bilderberg elites who want the rest of our money, or are we being gamed by the Chinese who have created a virus, and are now capitalising on it by selling us medical equipment, for a longer-term game-plan? Or, are they in cahoots?
I am confused as to which conspiracy to believe in.

Conspiracy theory is a term coined by the CIA .
Does the government Lie?
If yes, then that is a conspiracy against you and me.

There is truth and there is narrative. Conspiracy theory is narrative. Don't let it control you.

If I had to choose between a flat earther and someone who watches CNN or ch4 I choose flat earther.
To question something is the first step.

Flat earthers can change their mind. Flat earthers never killed a million Iraqis on a pack of lies..was that a conspiracy theory?


Conspiracy theories generally involve believing that every event is controlled, or orchestrated by some hidden power, or some nefarious secret cabal.
This appeals to people who crave some kind of order or structure, even if its evil.
Every event cannot, in their eyes be seen as random, everything needs to have a purpose.

I'm sorry Trendie, but you are singing from the Hymn sheet somebody else handed you- almost word for word
Some of us want the truth, no matter what the truth is. Some of us would rather not know.

But, I am of the opinion that people are essentially stupid, groups more so, that there are multiple and conflicting motivations, resulting in odd and random, and sometimes comical apparent coincidences.

People are essentially several things. In my experience we are basically kind and caring because of empathy- sociopaths do not have empathy. If you want to know who they are look at what they do and ask yourself if you could do the same.

But.. there are many shades of grey- if I'm competing with you for something my empathy factor might suffer a temp power loss. And it wouldn't be personal, it would be business.

Essentially stupid? I would say it's essential not to be. But that's a bit facetious. Uneducated perhaps, but their instinct is often pretty good. Those ancient body reading skills and gut feeling - that's a curve that the deputy chief medical lady isn't going to flatten out any time soon.

We are stumbling, bumbling, blindly through life, and random discoveries enhance our existence, and random tragedies are too horrific to contemplate that there isnt some order behind them.

Well, then you have to explain history and why it was never different this time. I'll leave that hanging..

I suspect people who believe in conspiracies, also believe the universe conspired to put the stars in the sky to resemble farm implements, animals, or heroic humans, that can only make sense from our part of the universe, or our specific moment in time.
[/QUOTE]

 

[timsk]

. . . But the problem is there are no simple answers to simple questions. . .

Hi DK,
Let's put this to the test! ;-)
1. Am I correct in thinking that you claim the Coronavirus pandemic is a hoax?
2. Do you agree with the following Cambridge dictionary definition of a hoax (and if not, please provide a definition that you do agree with):
Hoax, noun
A plan to deceive someone, such as telling the police there is a bomb somewhere when there is not one, or a trick:
The bomb threat turned out to be a hoax.
He'd made a hoax call claiming to be the president
3. Hopefully, you, your family and friends won't contract the virus and, if any of you do, you'll only experience mild symptoms and all make a full and speedy recovery. However, if the worst happens, and one of you becomes seriously ill, will you still claim the whole thing is a hoax?
4. If you answer 'yes' to the above three questions, please explain how anything you've posted to date about Coronavirus suggests that it's a hoax. (And I agree with Atilla - please confine your comments to this topic and leave Brexit out of it, as that just further muddies the already rather murky waters!)
Tim.

 

[David Knight]

In my informed opinion and experience, you are wrong about Brexit.

I don't know why you keep mixing it up with the Crona fiasco.

As it happens due to Crona or flight bans or Brexit - whatever the root cause, right now farm crops stand a good chance of going unpicked. Farmers can't get the pickers (usual Romanian and Bulgarian seasonal workers). UK labour force not up to speed, have desire to pick for min wage. Heard on radio out of the usual 120 labourers, one particular farm only has 12 or so. If stuff doesn't get picked we'll be importing or prices rising due to shortage of supply.

Just another Brexit dividend so some may say.

However, you keep pushing Brexit angle as if it is some kind of government cover up to hood wink joe public. It is simply a choice of membership to the EU common market and more recently political union. Because it makes good sense. Having said all that...

With respect to this virus, I concur, our response the cure seems to be worse than the disease. The argument that our Government must know better otherwise they wouldn't lead us into all this misery has never stopped our government into wars the people have no interest in. It's just that powerful big industry with hands in the pockets of politicains in the name of national interest (ie pursuit of energy or colonial resources) have often led the people into wreckless wars.

We agree on some things. To clear the confusion re Brexit and virus.

I think the main point is that we are deliberately made to focus on one thing at a time in order to distract us from how all the pieces fit together.

Discussions here and typically in youtube comments etc are usually all over the place, bombarding each other with info in the kind of random chaos that Trendie was getting at.

And we are lobbing in those bombs too often from an entrenched position (I'm guilty)

I believe for the world to get to a better place we have to stop being spectators.

If you believe people are sheep then you need really good leaders. Otherwise where will the bad leaders take us?

You can't hold power to account by confronting the puppets.

One interesting point Devon Stack made is that we are designed to live in smaller groups and that is why globalism is not in our interest. Not agreeing/disagreeing but he really has interesting points to make

 

[MasterOfCoin]

... has never stopped our government into wars the people have no interest in. It's just that powerful big industry with hands in the pockets of politicians ...

... some may recall a certain war in the East somewhere ...
which whole purpose was to protect and ensure the continuance of the very profitable merchant trade in opium no less ....

hmmm. wasn't there some sort of special colonial trading post set up as a result ?

Naaahh, surely not, and besides, bound to have long since been taken back over by the locals.

 

[David Knight]

Hi DK,
Let's put this to the test! ;-)
1. Am I correct in thinking that you claim the Coronavirus pandemic is a hoax?
2. Do you agree with the following Cambridge dictionary definition of a hoax (and if not, please provide a definition that you do agree with):
Hoax, noun
A plan to deceive someone, such as telling the police there is a bomb somewhere when there is not one, or a trick:
The bomb threat turned out to be a hoax.
He'd made a hoax call claiming to be the president
3. Hopefully, you, your family and friends won't contract the virus and, if any of you do, you'll only experience mild symptoms and all make a full and speedy recovery. However, if the worst happens, and one of you becomes seriously ill, will you still claim the whole thing is a hoax?
4. If you answer 'yes' to the above three questions, please explain how anything you've posted to date about Coronavirus suggests that it's a hoax. (And I agree with Atilla - please confine your comments to this topic and leave Brexit out of it, as that just further muddies the already rather murky waters!)
Tim.

Thanks for challenging what I believe

1- yes
2-yes
3- my partner friend- i documented here.

They have stated themselves that only those with underlying issues/elderly are dying otherwise you would suffer for a few days.

That narrative is changing to 'perfectly healthy 'people dying. The narrative always changes when it's a lie. It can change when new fact emerge but you have to balance that with the growing medical establishment voices challenging everything we are being told . The media doesn't want that story.

The numbers don't fit the story. We have been down this road before with the exact same people and it was not what they claimed was it?

If anyone believes they are being lied to there is a mountain of material out there to give credibilty to that. I can't really be expectected to document it all here but I know you want me to justify what I believe.

On balance of probabilities it's a hoax and I'm not scared of saying it.
And I shouldn't have anything to worry about what happens to people who don't believe proven documented liars should I?
Assange probably wont die of Corona.

Let me ask you

1- Are Boris and Macron and Merkal and Charles going to die. are you worried about that?

2- Do you think they really tested positive for something a great many experts question?

3- Would it be OK if they were faking it because, after all. it would be for a good cause?

4- Forced vaccinations start tomorrow, are you OK with that?

5-Want me to be jailed for refusing?

6- Which billionaire/ trillionaire will be the first to pump money right into the frontline first, or do you think the pharnacuetical companies will get richer

7- Are you comfortable with 40 people on the board of the CDC having a financial conflict of interests,,or Bill Ggates role in all this?

I could go on obviously. Don't feel obligated to answer them all. I'm only asking really to point out that it's difficult for you or me to know if the virus is real- even if someone close to us dies.

Should my default position be neutral?

I say no.

That would be like pretending The WHO doesn't have a track record (But yeah, be really scared this time)

There's too many proven liars to be neutral when it is they who demand to control the info

I might have a better answer tomorrow.. actually I'm always hoping I have a better one tomorrow.

 

[postman]

If this thread is the result of people spending just two weeks self isolating and surfing the interweb then lets hope everyone gets back to work soon. I sense references to 'the grassy knoll' making an appearance on a forum near you in the near future.

 

[J Livermore]

So, are we being manipulated by the Bilderberg elites who want the rest of our money, or are we being gamed by the Chinese who have created a virus, and are now capitalising on it by selling us medical equipment, for a longer-term game-plan? Or, are they in cahoots?
I am confused as to which conspiracy to believe in.

Conspiracy theories generally involve believing that every event is controlled, or orchestrated by some hidden power, or some nefarious secret cabal.
This appeals to people who crave some kind of order or structure, even if its evil.
Every event cannot, in their eyes be seen as random, everything needs to have a purpose.

But, I am of the opinion that people are essentially stupid, groups more so, that there are multiple and conflicting motivations, resulting in odd and random, and sometimes comical apparent coincidences.
We are stumbling, bumbling, blindly through life, and random discoveries enhance our existence, and random tragedies are too horrific to contemplate that there isnt some order behind them.

I suspect people who believe in conspiracies, also believe the universe conspired to put the stars in the sky to resemble farm implements, animals, or heroic humans, that can only make sense from our part of the universe, or our specific moment in time.

trendie,

Don’t forget that conspiracy theorists are out to make money too. They love to sell books, movies, “documentaries” on television (paid for by advertising of course), internet websites with pop up ads, and whatever else medium they can dream up.

If they can’t provide facts backed up by proof, they are a waste of time.

 

[counter_violent]

trendie,

Don’t forget that conspiracy theorists are out to make money too. They love to sell books, movies, “documentaries” on television (paid for by advertising of course), internet websites with pop up ads, and whatever else medium they can dream up.

If they can’t provide facts backed up by proof, they are a waste of time.

I hope you apply the same standards of scrutiny and question those who inform and those who rule over you.

 

[counter_violent]

Experimental trials start in the US

 

[counter_violent]

Race to find COVID-19 treatments accelerates | Science

 

[cantagril]

Experimental trials start in the US

Under the New Order, all the participants will confess to their crimes and be found guilty.

 

[postman]

Experimental trials start in the US

"Experimental trials" - I wonder how many people will die from being experimented on?

 

[timsk]

. . . I might have a better answer tomorrow.. actually I'm always hoping I have a better one tomorrow.

Hi DK,
10/10 for your answers to my first two questions - not quite so strong on the third! ;-)

I'll take your salutation of thanking me for challenging your beliefs at face value - good on you for that. Given what you say - there's nothing in your reply that I can see to suggest the virus is a hoax (as per the definition I provided). I accept fully that you have many concerns about it, ranging from it's origins, numbers infected, deaths, the lock downs, who benefits by it and the politics of it etc., etc. To a greater or lesser extent, I think most of us on this forum share many of those concerns and have - and will continue - to challenge aspects of what we're being fed by MSM. However, that's a very different kettle of fish from denouncing the whole thing as a hoax. Even if the virus was deliberately created and released by some evil James Bond style villain seeking global domination - the virus is still real - it's still out there - people are still catching it and tens of thousands are dying with it. (Note I said with it - not from it.)

Coronavirus could be many things that we're not being told about, nonetheless, the overwhelming evidence is that it exists. It's most definitely not a hoax. I believe I've had it (but can't be sure as I've not been tested), and I only experienced moderate symptoms. Even so, it was unlike any illness I've had as an adult; no barrel of laughs I can tell you! To conclude, I urge you in the strongest terms possible to drop the hoax claim as it weakens - rather than strengthens - your overall argument and paints you personally as being a a lone extremist who is unwilling or unable to accept reality. This is strong language I know, and not meant to be offensive, but I want to impress upon you how some members (not all) may perceive you - and this on a forum where there is broad interest in - and some support for - your views on this topic.
Tim.