Asian Coronavirus Outbreak

I am noticing two apparently contradictory things.
I have noticed more people are going out and about, maybe ignoring guidelines.
But I have also noticed an uptrend in people wearing masks.
I guess they believe there is a pandemic, but don't want to be isolated.
Anyone else noticing this, or just here, in the sticks?
I couldn't find any Vitamin-D supplements when shopping. So, there's that.
Loads of bog-roll, and soap.

Just wondered if not bathing from now on is a good strategy.
Anyone who doesn't notice the pong has the pox?
 
Atilla said:
Not about letting them die.

What control do we have whether anyone lives or dies.

We should be given the information and let individuals make their own risk assessments. Bit like markets, when Government interfere with controls in area, it causes issues elsewhere.

Just problem displacement.

As before we should focus energy and resources on those who are vulnerable.

Especially in light of infections taking place at a higher rate indoors then out.

When NHS does return back to BAU there is going to be such an overload of urgent surgeries and cancer treatements, suffering is just displaced on to the healthy living, probably on those younger people who will lose out on greater remaining number of years to the average of 81 etc., than those who are there abouts or well passed it.


Too much good intentions trying to save all, whilst losing site of real misery and numbers imo.

Where is the greater good or lesser harm in all this faffing around?
Click to expand...

But you are relying on govt employing common sense whilst it employs common purpose instead.
 
trendie said:
I am noticing two apparently contradictory things.
I have noticed more people are going out and about, maybe ignoring guidelines.
But I have also noticed an uptrend in people wearing masks.
I guess they believe there is a pandemic, but don't want to be isolated.
Anyone else noticing this, or just here, in the sticks?
I couldn't find any Vitamin-D supplements when shopping. So, there's that.
Loads of bog-roll, and soap.

Just wondered if not bathing from now on is a good strategy.
Anyone who doesn't notice the pong has the pox?
Click to expand...

What would be the point of PPE now? Maybe for the elderly that need to go out, but for the vast majority it is now useless, they weren't wearing it when the cases peaked just before lock down and they haven't worn it during lockdown, why bother now? Even the police, supermarket workers, delivery drivers, taxis and everyone who has had to work amongst the public have not bothered during the pandemic.

The infection rate is tailing off as per any other seasonal coronavirus does during the summer, to return, as normal, during the Winter months as would be expected of any respiratory disease, we probably already have 60% herd immunity, except they are not testing and are not releasing full stats, so there is no way to tell at the moment.

PPE will do nothing for the immune and the healthy from this point forward, total waste of time, I suspect that people have just been able to order masks and gloves after a period of restricted supply and feel they must use them, rather than stash away for the next lockdown period.

The time to wear PPE was in the weeks prior to lockdown, but then very few had any or saw a need to wear it.

It's like herd sentiment in the markets always caught too early or too late, based on media fear or optimism.
 
Signalcalc said:
What would be the point of PPE now? Maybe for the elderly that need to go out, but for the vast majority it is now useless, they weren't wearing it when the cases peaked just before lock down and they haven't worn it during lockdown, why bother now? Even the police, supermarket workers, delivery drivers, taxis and everyone who has had to work amongst the public have not bothered during the pandemic.

The infection rate is tailing off as per any other seasonal coronavirus does during the summer, to return, as normal, during the Winter months as would be expected of any respiratory disease, we probably already have 60% herd immunity, except they are not testing and are not releasing full stats, so there is no way to tell at the moment.

PPE will do nothing for the immune and the healthy from this point forward, total waste of time, I suspect that people have just been able to order masks and gloves after a period of restricted supply and feel they must use them, rather than stash away for the next lockdown period.

The time to wear PPE was in the weeks prior to lockdown, but then very few had any or saw a need to wear it.

It's like herd sentiment in the markets always caught too early or too late, based on media fear or optimism.
Click to expand...

Yep good assessment and makes perfect sense.

Agree 100%.
 
Atilla said:
Not about letting them die.

What control do we have whether anyone lives or dies.

We should be given the information and let individuals make their own risk assessments. Bit like markets, when Government interfere with controls in area, it causes issues elsewhere.

Just problem displacement.

As before we should focus energy and resources on those who are vulnerable.

Especially in light of infections taking place at a higher rate indoors then out.

When NHS does return back to BAU there is going to be such an overload of urgent surgeries and cancer treatements, suffering is just displaced on to the healthy living, probably on those younger people who will lose out on greater remaining number of years to the average of 81 etc., than those who are there abouts or well passed it.


Too much good intentions trying to save all, whilst losing site of real misery and numbers imo.

Where is the greater good or lesser harm in all this faffing around?
Click to expand...

my extreme comment was trying to answer NT’s objection to me saying that we had a caring society.

rather like trading it’s all easy in hindsight. As things have transpired it looks as though the Sweden approach might have been ok and avoided a lot of the economic distress. Also to have started off by protecting the vulnerable as the first priority rather than the NHS (one wonders why care homes didn’t spring to mind at a far earlier stage).

I’m quite happy to live my life by my own risk assessment when it’s just my well-being that I risk but, given the nature of the corvid beast, it’s other peoples’ well-being that I risk as well.
 
Atilla said:
Interesting site here with some good graphs.
Click to expand...
The one I keep my eye on is the weekly update from ONS: Deaths registered weekly in England and Wales, provisional: week ending 1 May 2020
Of particular interest (I think) is: Figure 4: The number of deaths involving COVID-19 was highest in women aged 85 years and over for the first time
Total of 2 deaths of children under 15.
Total of 384 deaths of people under 45.
Total of 3,913 deaths of people under 65.
That last one is worth repeating: less than 4,000 people under the age of 65 have died from the virus! These numbers are tiny, especially when one considers that some of these people will have had comorbidities. The vast majority of people dying of the virus are well past retirement age. Of those in the final age group of 85 and over - there are two key things to keep in mind. Firstly, that statistically speaking, these people would have died anyway within a year even if they hadn't caught the virus and, secondly, that the NHS spends more on patients in their final year than it spends on them throughout their entire life up to that point.

In round number terms, the chances of someone under 45 dying from the disease is a big fat zero. And, in the event that they catch the disease, their chances of making a full recovery are 100%. If you're a white female without a comorbidity, then your chances are even better than that, lol! Nonetheless, the government thinks those stats are appalling and, in a bid to improve them, are quite prepared to nuke the economy. I really do despair - the world has truly gone completely mad.
Tim.
 
timsk said:
The one I keep my eye on is the weekly update from ONS: Deaths registered weekly in England and Wales, provisional: week ending 1 May 2020
Of particular interest (I think) is: Figure 4: The number of deaths involving COVID-19 was highest in women aged 85 years and over for the first time
Total of 2 deaths of children under 15.
Total of 384 deaths of people under 45.
Total of 3,913 deaths of people under 65.
That last one is worth repeating: less than 4,000 people under the age of 65 have died from the virus! These numbers are tiny, especially when one considers that some of these people will have had comorbidities. The vast majority of people dying of the virus are well past retirement age. Of those in the final age group of 85 and over - there are two key things to keep in mind. Firstly, that statistically speaking, these people would have died anyway within a year even if they hadn't caught the virus and, secondly, that the NHS spends more on patients in their final year than it spends on them throughout their entire life up to that point.

In round number terms, the chances of someone under 45 dying from the disease is a big fat zero. And, in the event that they catch the disease, their chances of making a full recovery are 100%. If you're a white female without a comorbidity, then your chances are even better than that, lol! Nonetheless, the government thinks those stats are appalling and, in a bid to improve them, are quite prepared to nuke the economy. I really do despair - the world has truly gone completely mad.
Tim.
Click to expand...

Significant for the vulnerable and elderly, insignificant for the rest of us.

Deaths as a result of lockdown, significant for everyone that could have been saved if it wasn't for the fear and the NHS shutting down.

Economically disastrous, the results of which await to be seen.
 
Last edited:
barjon said:
I said in an earlier post that doctors had been told not to record as corvid where underlying reasons. It turns out that was just one hospital trust which had gone against government guidance.
Here’s the government “instruction” which is not as devious as you appear imply:

3.
• •
Referring deaths to the coroner
Covid-19 is an acceptable direct or underlying cause of death for the purposes of completing the Medical Certificate of Cause of Death
Covid-19 is not a reason on its own to refer a death to a coroner under the Coroners and Justice Act 2009.
• That Covid-19 is a notifiable disease under the Health Protection (Notification) Regulations 2010 does not mean referral to a coroner is required by virtue of its notifiable status.
Medical practitioners are required to certify causes of death “to the best of their knowledge and belief”. Without diagnostic proof, if appropriate and to avoid delay, medical practitioners can circle ‘2’ in the MCCD (“information from post-mortem may be available later”) or tick Box B on the reverse of the MCCD for ante-mortem investigations. For example, if before death the patient had symptoms typical of COVID- 19 infection, but the test result has not been received, it would be satisfactory to give ‘COVID-19’ as the cause of death, tick Box B and then share the test result when it
Click to expand...

Here's an interesting related article, everything points to overinflated figures for Covid.

architectsforsocialhousing.co.uk

The State of Emergency as Paradigm of Government: Coronavirus Legislation, Implementation and Enforcement

‘It is clear that, beyond the emergency situation linked to a certain virus which may in the future leave room for another, at issue is the design of a paradigm of government whose effectiveness wi…
architectsforsocialhousing.co.uk architectsforsocialhousing.co.uk

"So many new regulations and laws have been made, so many civil liberties and human rights contravened, and so many public services privatised and outsourced to corporate clients during this Government-imposed State of Emergency that there is a point at which any commentary on everything done under the aegis of the coronavirus crisis has to choose what to report. But let’s stop here and look at what can be done, and what is likely to be done, under the current legislation. Specifically, I want to look at the Government’s ‘Track and Trace’ mission, and how it is likely to be used and extended in the future by amendments to legislation justified by the apparent necessity of preventing infection and contamination with SARs-CoV-2."
 
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Signalcalc said:
Click to expand...
Former supreme court judge in a logical debate with a typical PC box checking airhead TV presenter, it was never going to be pretty.
The amount of umms and errs she came out with when she realised his position was perfectly sound and logical and she had no way of rebutting it. This reminds me of why I don't watch the news, I'm glad I don't even know her name.
 
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