Another year gone & still not profitable

[Black Swan]

Bizarre. He's a trading coach? Wait. Is this Advfntrader?

I think he calls himself Krull, hitthebid.com or something...

 

[advfntrader]

thanks for all the suggestions. I will be demoing for a few months when I try to work out why I keep taking stupid risks and losing my discipline.

A lot of this is due to trading and also working full time, I may get into a trade then have to goto a meeting or something, therefore I am not giving it 100% concentration. I need to look at daily charts from now on and don't trade intra-day as I cannot do it

 

[tomorton]

thanks for all the suggestions. I will be demoing for a few months when I try to work out why I keep taking stupid risks and losing my discipline.

A lot of this is due to trading and also working full time, I may get into a trade then have to goto a meeting or something, therefore I am not giving it 100% concentration. I need to look at daily charts from now on and don't trade intra-day as I cannot do it

Good perception - intra-day trading needs 100% concentration, not 100% time, but the end result would be the same.

 

[tomorton]

Krull seems to be a pothead by which I mean loser.

 

[Tantalos]

well 2010 is gone and I am reviewing my trading. I demo traded for the first 6 months of the year as I had to get my losses under control and develop a strategy, things were going well and every month showed good profits.

so then I opened a micro account and started live trading, the first month was excellent, I doubled the account....but I knew that I was lucky as I must have been over-leveraged. then the next week I lost the lot trying to short Gold, somehow I let the loss run and then I turned to "hope" hoping it would drop. It went to $1350 and I thought "it must pullback" so I added another short ....game over

Account almost wiped out, I added more funds, again determined not to let losses run I tripled the account over the next 2 months, this IS IT I thought, I have got this now....then somehow I ended up in a DOW short, a massive 200 point spike and I didn't close it out...I thought "its OK as I have tonnes of margin now as I am only micro lots" so I added...doubled down. Well I ended up in the short for 6 weeks hoping it would come good.....= wiped out again.

My main issue is I keep running losses, I just cannot seem to get it into my THICK SKULL that I need to cut them.

also adding to a losing trade....it is JUST STUPID

so for 2011 my new rules are...

1. Never ever add to losing trade
2. Cut loss at set % or amount of pips

at least I can see clearly now that money management is my problem, right ? - but why can't it SINK IN ???!

Don't worries friend

I find new program :clap:

 

[Christiaan]

hello talanos

I've heard veterans say that phycology or dicipline is most important when trading live.Next is money management and then the least important is your system.I think that this thread is a reminder that even if you know what your are doing which you obvoisly do considering the tecnical side...bad disicipline and money management can easily make you wipe out your account.

I think that it is critical to have true dicipline...you do what you have to not what you want to ...always

Without true dicipline you will never make it even of you are a trading savant.

 

[the hare]

I've heard veterans say that phycology or dicipline is most important when trading live.Next is money management and then the least important is your system.

People really do say the stupidest things (particularly "veterans")

Most important is the system. without a positive expectancy system you are pissing in the wind, no amount of psychology or MM will change that.

Of secondary importance is MM. You optimise the MM based on your strategy, the tail does not wag the dog FFS

The least important element is the psychology. Implimenting a tried and tested methodology that undertand and that you've built from scratch is not that difficult. The method either returns results within the parameters you expected, or it doesnt.

 

[CBH]

the first month was excellent, I doubled the account.... then the next week I lost the lot trying to short Gold,

To have these two results you are clearly taking on a level of risk that is too big for the size of your account. I have seen it too often - and from this a whole host of other problems flow.

I am sure it will have already been said but you should sort out your position sizing.

And demo account are for wusses in my opinion! Good luck for 2011.

 

[tomorton]

People really do say the stupidest things (particularly "veterans")

Most important is the system. without a positive expectancy system you are pissing in the wind, no amount of psychology or MM will change that.

Of secondary importance is MM. You optimise the MM based on your strategy, the tail does not wag the dog FFS

The least important element is the psychology. Implimenting a tried and tested methodology that undertand and that you've built from scratch is not that difficult. The method either returns results within the parameters you expected, or it doesnt.

Disagree. The wrong psychological approach frequently stops people following a decent system and makes them ignore money (i.e. risk) management.

A good car won't make you a good driver and a good system won't make you a good trader.

 

[leonarda]

Please explain how day trading is more difficult than swing trading.

This is just another drop of internet trading wisdom.

in many ways, longer time frames give:
- helps prevent over-trading that can easily occur chasing those intra-day swings.
- wider stops help capture those big moves rather than a death by a 1000 stops intra-day
- fundamentals come more into play giving you a more definite leading indicator to give you a better edge
- less commission
- and oddly most importantly, less trades gives more time for thought (and less stress) and for you to battle the most important psyhcological management of trading. Day trading requires 100% concentration!
- swing trading it is easier to achieve 3-1 win/loss ratios, hence meaning you only need 30-40% or so wins to get a very decent return

anyway, don't take my word for it, OP should give it a try... especially since OP has had another year without profit.

 

[Black Swan]

People really do say the stupidest things (particularly "veterans")

Most important is the system. without a positive expectancy system you are pissing in the wind, no amount of psychology or MM will change that.

Of secondary importance is MM. You optimise the MM based on your strategy, the tail does not wag the dog FFS

The least important element is the psychology. Implimenting a tried and tested methodology that undertand and that you've built from scratch is not that difficult. The method either returns results within the parameters you expected, or it doesnt.

Is right mate, wtf do Elder, Van Tharp and Douglas know eh? Bunch of pussies, never mind writing those over complicated books on the 3 Ms, they just needed to buy a system for a hundred quid, do it to death and chill...simples...

 

[bbmac]

The OP has stated that he didn't follow the rules of his trading edge and also let losers run instead of cutting them (hope over fear.) If that is not a psychological issue I don't know what is. In the end the profitable execution of any trading plan centering around a proven trading edge relys on having the correct natural or learned psychological frame work to do so successsfully.

G/L

 

[EricTheTrader]

One of the early signs that you have made a serious mistake is when you change your routine and begin to tell your spouse and friends the seasons・for the market to go your way. Or, polling the internet looking for those taking your same position, asking your Forex broker what he thinks you should do; hoping that some government action will bail you out. This is not Forex trading; it is hope. Hope is the most devastating of all emotions in trading the Forex markets because it can lull you into complacency. You know when you find yourself hoping, that you are wrong, and should immediately get out of the market, but it takes an unusual amount of self-discipline to take that very large loss.

 

[the hare]

Disagree. The wrong psychological approach frequently stops people following a decent system and makes them ignore money (i.e. risk) management.

A good car won't make you a good driver and a good system won't make you a good trader.

Its the wrong psychological approach that results in them having a poor or wrong system to begin with.

You can argue any way you like but the system is the fundemental buildng block on which everything else is built.

 

[the hare]

Is right mate, wtf do Elder, Van Tharp and Douglas know eh? Bunch of pussies, never mind writing those over complicated books on the 3 Ms, they just needed to buy a system for a hundred quid, do it to death and chill...simples...

Well lets see van tharp doesnt actually trade, and he wouldnt know how to even begin designing a trading strategy. I have the upmost respect for Tharp as a trading educator, and his materials are first class, but I wouldnt classify him as a role model for traders.

Have you seen Mark Douglas's audited accounts ? No thought not

I wont critisise Elder as my own methods are loosely based on his triple screen method and I fully agree with the mind method MM model, its just the order of importance in which they are placed.

We have a thread in which someone who's been around for a while is being told he'll be fine once he sorts out his MM and psychology. Yes anyone dumb enough to believe they'll double an account in a month deserves all the pain they've got coming to them, but MM and psychology are not the issue here.

He has no idea if he has an edge, he has not quantified his edge, he has no idea what a loser looks like, he has no idea what a winner looks like, he has no idea about an apporopriate stop size. He's no different to 99.99% of the cannon fodder posting here.

Until their psychology changes to such an extent that they put in some work, they will remain cannon fodder.

Perhaps the authors you mention could buy a system from wee Davie Robertson ? IIRC you quiteliked what he had to offer

 

[Black Swan]

Well lets see van tharp doesnt actually trade, and he wouldnt know how to even begin designing a trading strategy. I have the upmost respect for Tharp as a trading educator, and his materials are first class, but I wouldnt classify him as a role model for traders.

Have you seen Mark Douglas's audited accounts ? No thought not

I wont critisise Elder as my own methods are loosely based on his triple screen method and I fully agree with the mind method MM model, its just the order of importance in which they are placed.

We have a thread in which someone who's been around for a while is being told he'll be fine once he sorts out his MM and psychology. Yes anyone dumb enough to believe they'll double an account in a month deserves all the pain they've got coming to them, but MM and psychology are not the issue here.

He has no idea if he has an edge, he has not quantified his edge, he has no idea what a loser looks like, he has no idea what a winner looks like, he has no idea about an apporopriate stop size. He's no different to 99.99% of the cannon fodder posting here.

Until their psychology changes to such an extent that they put in some work, they will remain cannon fodder.

Perhaps the authors you mention could buy a system from wee Davie Robertson ? IIRC you quite liked what he had to offer

You're no fun these days, expected you too *bite* a lot better and harder than that...sigh...

 

[meanreversion]

Have you seen Mark Douglas's audited accounts ? No thought not

This is just childish.

Did Butch Harmon ever win a golf major? No. So why does Phil Mickelson employ him as a coach, he must be an idiot. Have you even heard of Sean Foley? How can Tiger possibly want to take instruction from him?

 

[Black Swan]

This is just childish.

Did Butch Harmon ever win a golf major? No. So why does Phil Mickelson employ him as a coach, he must be an idiot. Have you even heard of Sean Foley? How can Tiger possibly want to take instruction from him?

Got to have somewhere to park the ugly bird once you've kopped off with her mate?

 

[tomorton]

Its the wrong psychological approach that results in them having a poor or wrong system to begin with.

You can argue any way you like but the system is the fundemental buildng block on which everything else is built.

I hadn't thought of that argument but you're right. Which underlines my comment that it is the psychology that is key, not the system.

 

[meanreversion]

Time to turn the discussion to fat birds and curries, methinks.