Alternatives to Darwinex

[TLN]

I will suggest to The5ers to open such kind of Hall of fame.

 

[ASGTrade]

This is the fact at Darwinex. The entry fee is zero. So the performance is changed by Darwinex and for Darwinex only. From 20% to 15%, they decided all.
That is a trade-off, I think.




So how?
Force traders who want that capital to show their tracking record of 5-10 profitable years? Even this, noone can guarantee the past performance can last in future. Right at Darwinex, if a traders with outstanding tracking record but it's migrated from others brokers, it's reviewed very carefully by others.

And let's take an example. If you got 100k$ and you demand a good trader to manage it to get profit for you. What you will require those traders? Ask them shown their tracking record, ask them show their certificate, ask them to trade on demon account to demonstrate their skill or just simply open a live account for them with the specific fee same as the loss they are allowed?

I'll ask for the trackrecord. Invest if I am interested, and set a max loss limit for them at which I will either pull out the money, review etc . Won't ask them to pay me $XX first.

 

[LongVision]

Won't ask them to pay me $XX first.

Another question how much they earn from trading profit?
I think they earn significant amount from entry fee(risk free) as most likely 95% trader won't able to achieve there P/L targets.
Lets see darwinex trader stats-

Total Darwins: 2992
Darwins with return >6% and -4% max DD(06 months): 189
%age darwins achieved target: 6.3%

 

[CavaliereVerde]

.... and we have to cosider that Darwinex traders are not average wannbes.
We are an elite, Darwinex is pretty odd and difficult.

To succeed at Darwinex you need a trackrecord, results, for funded traders stuff you only need a dream and 200-1000 to pay the ticket.

 

[TLN]

for funded traders stuff you only need a dream and 200-1000 to pay the ticket

Guess what?
One of our friend takes FTMO challenge.
Target 10%, Max DD 10% in 30 days.

 

[Viro Major]

Reviewed the programs closer.
Most have uninteresting incentives mixed with scammy rules: TopStepTrader, SpeedUp Trader, OneUp Trader, City Traders Imperium
If not wrapped as fraudulent when the incentives / rules are the most interesting : EnFoid

The conservative program of The5ers seems reasonable, in terms of risk reward, but slow. The aggressive scheme has an attraction potential higher than Darwinex but absolutely tricky / borderline impossible

FTMO appears to fill a gap where Darwinex is missing, as the most accessible program (can run up to 3 challenges at the same time for the incentives to be okay). As the speedier ascension, it seems not a bad idea to run in parallel at the start during the build-up period which can take quite a long time at Darwinex. Clearly it’s the fairest / least ripoff

 

[TLN]

Clearly it’s the fairest / least ripoff

Really?
FTMO challenge mostly wants to force us to gamble (use high risk for each trade) to achieve 10% target in 30 days. Very straight-forward, they intent to collect as mush as possible the entry fee in this phase. (92% failed)

 

[Viro Major]

I disagree here. The target % is irrelevant to notice if you don’t oppose it in relation with the loss stopout as a ratio, and leverage applied
10%/-10% is more equilibrated and easier than 7%/-4% of The5ers to pass the thresholds.
We absolutely do not care about the value of the metrics, like the -4% maxDD of the5ers which Cavalier deemed as irrealistic since we can accomodate it with lower leverage. What counts is the relationship between the goal and when you dropout, then a strategic management can be fitted to attain it.
Another big problem with the5ers is the time constraint on all 6 levels (versus an imbalance of performance-to-risk asked) which turns it into a race with pressure. A dimension that FTMO eases at the 2nd phase already (and there is only 3 in total)
Achieving 10% in 1 month is no problem as long as using leverage (FTMO proposes up to 1:100 when the5ers 1:6). Also, there are half less levels in order to reach the final stage and the goal diminish in difficulty instead of being stable
Achieving 10% against a mirror drawdown should be a competency that any average Darwinex trader should at least respect , if not be (way) more demanding... it’s very normal to demonstrate this type of ability if you pretend to be capable
Why do you say FTMO forces you to high risk trades ? All I see is they let you more flexibility (on leverage which we won’t use to full extent anyway & time), which doesn’t mean you have to take advantage of it... FTMO is less framed which makes it more open, success through it is approchable and feasable, which is less the case for The5ers
In my opinion, the conditions of The5ers are closer to scam instead of fair compared to FTMO

 

[Viro Major]

Talking about the interest

FTMO: up to 3 challenges at 80k in parallel, so 240k with 70% payout
The5ers: at the 6th level, 1.28M at 50% payout

But... if we take into account the -4% maxDD to respect of The5ers that will force us with constraint to play with a smaller exposure, therefore win smaller, then FTMO (more room at -10% and symetric) becomes kind of equally interesting

Except... that the route is way shorter and faster to touchdown with FTMO than the5ers, and that gives it quite a distinctive appeal

In conclusion, for me FTMO wins hands down as more advantageous, and given how fast it can turn out, it can be a viable complementary solution for the first months or years when you’ll win 0 perf fees at Darwinex during when there’s to build a TR. FTMO can pay sooner and without relying on unpredictable investors

 

[Viro Major]

If we triangle funding/AuM + payout/perf fees + leverage to deploy /VaR together
Then the prizes of some of these programs come with as much value than Darwinex, except they have the advantage to not suspend you to a volatile factor (the waltz of investors) but strictly yourself

 

[Viro Major]

The5ers has more of a cash machine mentality. Just the fact they limit trading to forex only and not easier assets for me is an indicator that they’re after conditions (among other ones) to steal your pockets. it’s less blattant for FTMO

 

[TLN]

But... if we take into account the -4% maxDD to respect of The5ers that will force us with constraint to play with a smaller exposure, therefore win smaller, then FTMO (more room at -10% and symetric) becomes kind of equally interesting

About this point, I think you're right. 4% is too tight and result in traders have to use lower risk to protect it.

Why do you say FTMO forces you to high risk trades ?

Dont you see that you can not win every month? And even with 10%.
It definitely is a gamble.
Even the best traders still have to pray for PASS this challenge and might be take more than 1 time to overcome it.

 

[TLN]

Total Darwins: 2992
Darwins with return >6% and -4% max DD(06 months): 189
%age darwins achieved target: 6.3%

Please also take into account the result at Darwinex is standardized as Var 6.5%. Or simply word, similar max DD of Darwinex is 6.5%. While the5ers is 4%.
The above result might be a little bit unfair with the5ers. But, as a reference, it's good.

Their name is 5%. So, 95% failed can be understandable. ^^

 

[TLN]

10%/-10% is more equilibrated and easier than 7%/-4% of The5ers to pass the thresholds

And one more.
FTMO: 10%/-10% in one month.
The5ers: 7%/-4% in 6 months. Simply same as: 1.2%/-4% in one month.
As you can see, for each month, the5ers just targers ~1.2% with -4% risk.
Is it reasonable?

 

[LongVision]

Please also take into account the result at Darwinex is standardized as Var 6.5%. Or simply word, similar max DD of Darwinex is 6.5%. While the5ers is 4%.
The above result might be a little bit unfair with the5ers. But, as a reference, it's good.

Their name is 5%. So, 95% failed can be understandable. ^^

I think it is a fair comparison. Now let's check at 9.75%/ -6.5%MaxDD same reward to risk ratio of 1.5.

Total dawins:2997
9.75%/ -6.5%MaxDD darwins:128
%age darwins qualified:4.2%

Stats are similar, the exploitable edge is always thin for trading. For 90% trader, the reward/risk ratio is always less than 1.

 

[TLN]

As you can see, for each month, the5ers just targers ~1.2% with -4%

And one more good about The5ers, they have just changed the policy of retry.
With low risk challenge, if at the end of 6 month, traders do not reach 6-7% target, but the profit is >2.5%. They allow a retry for free.
Is it reasonable? Because, now we can trade with the risk as low as 0.05% per trade to target 0.5% per month and 3% per 6 month and wait for our favor market to get outstanding result.


@LongVision : most of Dawinex traders does not trade with such a low risk in mind, I think. (Ah... well, except ERQ and the one that everyone here already knows his name 😅)

 

[TLN]

You can sign up for 3 challenges with The5ers also

However, after deeply consideration, I think The5ers is truly for dreamer.😞
Why?🙁
850$ for 80k$ capital.
But with low risk -4% absolute DD that is reset for each new level. Traders can not earn big money.
Let's say we traders are very conservative to protect -4%. So we just target 0.5%/month, then 6%/ years. (6% of 80k $ is only 4.8k $. Share 50%, only 2.4k $ remaining).
Then, let's say we are solid and consistent make profit 6%/year. So, for each, 1.5 years, our capital is double. So, guess what I think? We take 6 years of solid and luck trading to reach 1.28M $.
Yeah ... What's a dream!!!🙃

For FTMO, it might be better with -10% range. We can earn some profit of 70% share of 100k $ capital. Of course with some much luck. 😅

 

[TLN]

@CavaliereVerde @ASGTrade @Viro Major @LongVision @Muiris and others:
Thank you all for make all things clear and keep me out of a day dreamer context. 🙂
In next period, still practice more on Darwinex.🤓

Anw, FTMO is worth to have a try if I consider my skill is enough🙃. Lots of traders in youtube can Pass and get back their entry fee, also some significant profit.

 

[TLN]

Anw, FTMO is worth to have a try if I consider my skill is enough

I think it's reason why @itstradingtime took FTMO challenge as a target in 2021.

Good luck to you!!!

 

[Viro Major]

And one more.
FTMO: 10%/-10% in one month.
The5ers: 7%/-4% in 6 months. Simply same as: 1.2%/-4% in one month.
As you can see, for each month, the5ers just targers ~1.2% with -4% risk.
Is it reasonable?

but 10%/-10% with is really the same as 1%/-1% or 50%/-59% has the odds of a coin flip for someone with no edge. It lasts one round during 1 month, then you get your money back, the next round is 2 months and then you have unlimited time to take it slow