Is Naked trading the last chance saloon?

All we seem to hear about these days is naked trading in one form or another. When we start as traders we start with a simple naked daily chart. This is soon followed by by our first adventure into moving averages and moving average crosses. Next we get adventurous and start to explore RSI which is quickly followed by CCI,macd and all the rest of the basic indicators. Natural progression is obvious from here, we go to advanced or enhanced RSI,CCI,etc.Once this avenue has been discounted we move onto bollinger bands,channels and oscillators. From here we begin to get desperate and move onto named averages such as Dinapoli, Demark,Arps crown jewels,joe krut and all the rest of the gang.Of course part of this process is to reduce our timeframe to about 5 ticks with a 2 period advanced SMA with a toe loop on the end.
Next we all quit for a while untill we decide to go down the Fibanacci or Elliot wave route. Then of course we are not happy with a basic 50% retracement so we have to add in a few averages along the way and reinvent the wheel again. Then we start to realise that it is our head that is wrong so we read evrything we can about R/R ratio,emotion and discipline etc. Once we have completed the cycle we go back to basic and start with a chart and price action.

well anyway guys that was my journey from a basic chart back to a basic chart. All the years I spent looking at indicators,not once was I paying any attention to price action and learning to read a chart. I can now read a chart with accuracy in any time frame.This however does not mean I make fortunes,of course not,I have yet to master the discipline aspect of trading. How many others have followed this path?

no

but the way you talked about how we start off sounded very familiar

Happily using indicators here.

A naked chart is meaningless to me, my indicators give me a point of reference as well as helping greatly with the decision process. I wont be changing to a naked chart any time soon.

Don't use any indicators in my trading.Indicators are lagging confusion merchants.

I just use price.Naked is the best !Even the candlestick give better market info.

If these indicators were any good ,they would not be free .They are free because they are useless and not worth charging anything.

I have developed and tested over 300 expert advisors for metatrader 4.The tests reveal indicators are no better than coin flip, and as of today there is no indicators based system which is profitable.

The tests were conducted on 8 years of data on forex liquidity.The only indicator which works is support and resistance and the the only profitable automated systems using expert indicators are support and resistance systems.


http://www.trade2win.com/boards/for...s-liars-support-resistance-trading-forex.html

I use a set of averages, more for having them around than anything. Most of my decisions are taken from bar patterns- Those indicators in a box underneath are long gone, in my trading.

Naked to MA's to MACD to RSI and back to Naked. Think most people do this by the looks of it.

I have started with discretionary trading, followed by my first tries using some basic TA und now trading full automatic strategies. Today I'm happy with that. Beside this change I realized also, that the trading-instrument changes together with the way of trading. I started with some shares, followed by warrant and today I trade futures.

I wonder. I see a lot of posts by some who are veterans, in fact, they could be considered experts but they seem to need an indicator of some sort. I use my averages for "piercing" purposes in a trend. It helps me make a decision on pulling the trigger.

I used to be very dogmatic about the way I trade but, to hell with it, what's the point? Everyone falls into his own niche, provided his pocket gives him the chance to survive long enough. Not letting the losses get too big on a trade is really, the main thing.

Remember--- be a survivor!

robster970 said:

Naked to MA's to MACD to RSI and back to Naked. Think most people do this by the looks of it.

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Its good early education to use indicators for learners,before they get a grasp of candles and before they advance to naked.

oildaytrader said:

Its good early education to use indicators for learners,before they get a grasp of candles and before they advance to naked.

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I agree - I remember that it eventually leads you back to price action because you realise that indicators and oscillators aren't really where it's at. Incidentally I do leave 3 MA's hanging around on the screen but they just kind of tell me what I can already see. More habit than use. Bit like a comfy blanket.

I also remember that getting back to naked then makes you question everything else that
you thought were absolutes too. For me getting naked was the end of the beginning.

oildaytrader said:

Its good early education to use indicators for learners,before they get a grasp of candles and before they advance to naked.

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but you don't trade and consequently you don't make any money...

Been trading forever here, only use a couple of MA's, but don't pay much attention to 'em. Mainly just look at price action.

nile_croc said:

Been trading forever here, only use a couple of MA's, but don't pay much attention to 'em. Mainly just look at price action.

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Nile croc

Off topic

Here are a couple of pictures of Crocodiles and hippos at Murchison Falls on the Nile .Taken july this year.Can't find some photos

O D T

oildaytrader said:

Nile croc

Off topic

Here are a couple of pictures of Crocodiles and hippos at Murchison Falls on the Nile .Taken july this year.Can't find some photos

O D T

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Are you the one on the right?

Indicators only tell you what you already know, in different ways. Pivot points are quite useful, though, probably because they must if enough traders believe in them.

y totally agree with the journey part of this - havent gone back to totally naked on all charts, still use a few simple MAs but i use but might experiment with that at some point.

P/a

That sounds like my journey too, it took me about 8 months to realize, that price action is the only way to go, I still use Pivot Points for suport and resistance, I am lacking of discipline yet, but if I do every thing by the rules with 1-3 risk-reward ratio I get about 45% right. So discipline is the thing I am working on.

Good luck

gintaras123 said:

That sounds like my journey too, it took me about 8 months to realize, that price action is the only way to go, I still use Pivot Points for suport and resistance, I am lacking of discipline yet, but if I do every thing by the rules with 1-3 risk-reward ratio I get about 45% right. So discipline is the thing I am working on.

Good luck

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Raw PA is not the only way to trade, and suggestions like this only show the naivety of the poster. Regarding your comments on discipline; many people have this problem. As I see it a major contributing factor to lack of discipline is lack of conviction to the method (or methods) being traded. After all if you where almost certain that the method you where operating from was going to make money would you deviate from it? Highly unlikely. Therefore it is logical to assume that lack of discipline is very closely related to lack of confidence in your trading. If you find indicators help to build this confidence then they are of use, and should be considered a valid way of trading.

Price action & 1 MA on 2 timeframes (trend and entry) for me, nothing else. More importantly, discipline and money/risk management the key. Day trading only, open and close flat, aids to a great nights sleep. KISS.

good post Rossini

agree if they help use them ..... just learn their little nuances

thought on poor discipline

Hesitating to Enter a Trade

"A trader may hesitate or abandon entering a trade because he senses his own fear. His conscious or unconscious interpretation is, “If I am sensing fear, then I should not be doing this trade.” The bottom-line reason why a trader hesitates is because he is not totally confident in his trading strategy or in himself.

He can change this by properly researching and understanding his trading strategy "



later

Andy

tenbobtrader said:

good post Rossini

agree if they help use them ..... just learn their little nuances

thought on poor discipline

Hesitating to Enter a Trade

"A trader may hesitate or abandon entering a trade because he senses his own fear. His conscious or unconscious interpretation is, “If I am sensing fear, then I should not be doing this trade.” The bottom-line reason why a trader hesitates is because he is not totally confident in his trading strategy or in himself.

He can change this by properly researching and understanding his trading strategy "



later

Andy

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Using mechanical systems which have been back tested on p/a ,using many years of data ,will result in confidence in the method.

Second set of my balls for the market is a sound negative progression system (proprietary ),giving me every confidence to say "I will not close losing positions , until the market takes my stop,and I will beat the market with my next bet which will be higher (should this trade close at a loss)"

This gives me absolute total emotionless decisions when putting on trades .I never get scared of losing.No hesitation , no greed ,no fear.........all the ingredients to execute trade perfectly.

O D T