Would you be happy with 15% a year?

[Fugazsy]

Hi Fugazsy,

May be I should, and maybe you should try and be more polite and less condescending. If you want to be a FoMo disciple that's your prerogative, but I would caution against becoming a clone. Comments such as this suggest that you may have a problem.


I'm afraid this is a non sequitur. Of course a sense of humour is good, but that has no relevance either to your post #73 or my answer to it.
Tim.

Tim

ye ye...Easy to see problems in others when is not convenient to you....You are the one on F's back all the time, grow up.....Seems like you are the last one left, others had the wisdom to accept people for what they are, but you are for some reason very bitter still......

This is a community and everybody needs to be respected, as in a family we embrace the weak as we embrace the strong....what is important is that they mean well.

I am not an F disciple and I do not trade like him as I mentioned before (but it is convenient for you to portrait me that way), but in the line of grace he is a maestro compared to many others.

I do not have any problems unless I encounter narrow mind chaps that cannot see further than their nose.....and constantly blaming others for not being able to see......

I repeat it again (but you won't to see it because you are the one having an agenda which is against F) my question was relevant because it touched an issue that I am concerned about and we were expanding......or are we not allowed ?

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/gen...10-would-you-happy-15-year-7.html#post2495042

Regarding my 73 post, seems like you are the only one that did not see the humour behind it (hallo?), I also mentioned his "live calls" to make it a bit more twisted.......and I am sure even F did not take it personally.....

As I moderator I suggest that you to not take side into a fight as you did, a moderator job is to moderate, not to fuel it for your own ego trip.....or whatever revenge is cluttering your mind.....because if you do, you will fail and I suggest you do something else.....

Now, I think I am giving my daily share here, my knowledge and perception of trading, and it is done in the name of generosity only, not agenda what so ever.

As a moderator if you do not think I contribute anything here, just say it and I will be very happy in banning myself, believe me it will be much better for my work.......

only a constructive criticism...a bit harsh? maybe...but I prefer to be fair than nice.

Fugazsy.

 

[timsk]

. . . only a constructive criticism...a bit harsh? maybe...but I prefer to be fair than nice.

Fugazsy.

Hi Fugazsy,
Judging by this post, it appears I've caused offense - for which I apologise. All I was trying to do was to be helpful by answering your question ("I asked F. a question on this thread, or is not allowed here any more?") which appeared to me to be aimed at Admin' and/or the Mods. If it was rhetorical, meant as a joke, or I misunderstood it in any way - I apologise. Equally, I'm sorry if the answer I provided isn't agreeable to you. If you wish me to explain my thinking in detail and/or to address any of the points you raise here, then I'm happy to do that via PM. Alternatively, if you wish to keep it in the public domain, by all means start a bespoke thread in the 'T2W Feedback & Announcements' forum. One or the other, as this is not the place to have such a discussion. This thread is about whether or not you would be happy with a 15% return p/a. In future, please confine all your posts on this thread to this topic. I shall leave this post for a day or two and then ask the Mods to housekeep the thread in a bid to get it back on track, as it's an interesting subject with some diverse and insightful contributions.

Thank you in advance for your co-operation.
Tim.
PS. I'm NOT a Moderator!

 

[Fugazsy]

Hi Fugazsy,
Judging by this post, it appears I've caused offense - for which I apologise. All I was trying to do was to be helpful by answering your question ("I asked F. a question on this thread, or is not allowed here any more?") which appeared to me to be aimed at Admin' and/or the Mods. If it was rhetorical, meant as a joke, or I misunderstood it in any way - I apologise. Equally, I'm sorry if the answer I provided isn't agreeable to you. If you wish me to explain my thinking in detail and/or to address any of the points you raise here, then I'm happy to do that via PM. Alternatively, if you wish to keep it in the public domain, by all means start a bespoke thread in the 'T2W Feedback & Announcements' forum. One or the other, as this is not the place to have such a discussion. This thread is about whether or not you would be happy with a 15% return p/a. In future, please confine all your posts on this thread to this topic. I shall leave this post for a day or two and then ask the Mods to housekeep the thread in a bid to get it back on track, as it's an interesting subject with some diverse and insightful contributions.

Thank you in advance for your co-operation.
Tim.
PS. I'm NOT a Moderator!

Tim

Do not worry about it.....I like your openness and your frankness of this post and I will respect you for that.

It is also my fault, English is not my first language and I can appear a bit raw when expressing, maybe my passion is coming forth a bit and I need to tame it down....

All well mate....we spoke and that is good.

Fzsy

 

[evertontrader]

Back to the subject of 15%.

A few posts back, someone talked about what happens when you hit 15%. Well, it will depend on the circumstances of the individual.

For most, hitting 15% return won't signify the time to go on holiday (maybe butlins?) but what it will do is confirm you've achieved something. You've set a plan, successfully executed that plan and reached your goal, which is a good place to be especially for someone new to the pursuit. Positive reinforcement breeds discipline and discipline is as vital as oxygen in this game.

Now, consider the opposite scenario. Consider the individual who sets expectations too high from the outset, doesn't hit them and is now trying to work out why. Introduce doubt, frustration and the hunger to find the *answers*. Where do you look to find these answers? the answer to earning 20% a month... maybe trading forums, trading books or possibly a trading mentor, someone who can already make 20% a month but wants to let you in on the secret...for a small fee... because that makes sense. How many people do you think are looking for the answer across this forum right now?

If you hit 15%, sure, you can carry on to your hearts content but remember, proving to yourself you can get there is not a non-event, it's a solid foundation to build on.

 

[scotd]

15% profit per annum is not worth it at all; imagine investing $1,000 into forex as a full time trader just to make $150 a year? I can as well find a daily pay job. I actually made a 103% profit from last years trading and an extra 30% from trading gold on ********** platform.

 

[evertontrader]

Yes but your small capital balance is distorting the value of the return. Change your perspective, consider that 15% on $1,000,000.

It baffles me how people expect to earn more with less, especially when it's more than the best in the business can generate. Good luck with that.

Retail trading marketing had done a great job, it's convinced many that the very unrealistic expectation of continually being able to extract 100%+ per annum from the markets is possible... resulting in over trading, high commissions income and a high retail investor churn rate.

 

[Forexmospherian]

Yes but your small capital balance is distorting the value of the return. Change your perspective, consider that 15% on $1,000,000.

It baffles me how people expect to earn more with less, especially when it's more than the best in the business can generate. Good luck with that.

Retail trading marketing had done a great job, it's convinced many that the very unrealistic expectation of continually being able to extract 100%+ per annum from the markets is possible... resulting in over trading, high commissions income and a high retail investor churn rate.

I appreciate i said I would stay out of this thread - and will - after I make one last comment

Lets get this 100% clear

Hedge Funds and Bankers f**ked up big time -in fact their previous greed was the cause of the world wide recession from 2008 onwards

Yes - there are many clever - and very - very devious people working in Hedge Funds - but you are forgetting - they cheat and lie

They are simply not the BEST TRADERS - FACT

Now you mention 15% on $1 million pounds - yes a nice net figure

BUT

I can beat that figure on under £100k in an annum quite easily - mainly because I am a very experienced and skilful retail trader.

I would NO WAY make 200-300% annual increases on £5 million or £10 million plus - its a different ball game

However its so important to make sure retail traders know that on retail size capital account under £25k or £50k - ( maybe 90% anyway ) they can make over 100 - 200 % per annum once they are experienced - that might take anything from 3 to 10 years depending on how they trade.

My conclusion is that anyone who is happy with 15 - 50% annual returns of any account under £100k - is not pushing themselves - not trading that well and should search and study for a lot better returns - they are there for full time retail traders.

Don't be deceived by the so called "best traders in the world " - Trust very experienced retail traders - who have been there and got the T shirt

With regards to well after 2 or 5 years it will all blow up and go wrong

NO

That for silly hedge fund algo fortune tellers

Retail intraday traders that are experienced are profitable every day - as long as the market moves at least 10 pips in one or other directions


Fortune tellers may guess next week or next month etc - I trade in the now - and thats worked for me now for 7 + years

Enough said and promise that's my last comment here

Good Trading

Regards


F

 

[tomorton]

Yes but your small capital balance is distorting the value of the return. Change your perspective, consider that 15% on $1,000,000.

It baffles me how people expect to earn more with less, especially when it's more than the best in the business can generate. Good luck with that.

Retail trading marketing had done a great job, it's convinced many that the very unrealistic expectation of continually being able to extract 100%+ per annum from the markets is possible... resulting in over trading, high commissions income and a high retail investor churn rate.

I still hold the view that if you trade from the back bedroom at home and make 15% av pa trading a small account, you should get out of trading, its not worth the time, effort or risk.

100% return is not unrealistic, its just unachievable for people who think its easy and so won't work at learning how to do it.

 

[evertontrader]

I appreciate i said I would stay out of this thread - and will - after I make one last comment

Lets get this 100% clear
...

That's actually one of your more balanced and comprehensible replies, welcome back.

As I've said before, if you can do that consistently, then you're one of the outliers. For us meagre humans... or at least myself, 15% PA is more than enough

 

[getyanutinthegameson]

Assuming that the 95% rule applies to the participants of this suite of forums then 15% pa would give them a raging stiffy.

 

[Brew23]

15% is great, for the investor.
15% for a trader...is not.

Yes, agree

 

[paramaniac]

Considering Warren Buffett has made 22% per annum over 36 years and the S&p 500 returns about 8% per annum on average, I would say 15% is excellent. Does any trader on these boards make a better return per annum?

 

[Forexmospherian]

Considering Warren Buffett has made 22% per annum over 36 years and the S&p 500 returns about 8% per annum on average, I would say 15% is excellent. Does any trader on these boards make a better return per annum?

YES

Every month - with over 10% per month for over 5 years

BUT

I am not an investor with a capital base of multi millions or billions - thats a different ball game - - ie 15% on $500 million per annum - and you would say OK - not bad

Secondly - I dont compound - I hit my financial "wall" over 4 years ago and so I stay within my comfort zone - but still make an excellent cash reward per annum - more than I was earning at Director Level at a few large multi nationals going back over 20 yrs ago

So - can all members understand - investing and playing with millions is just another totally different ballgame compared to retail trading with normally Capital accounts under $100 or $50K.

Its like comparing truck driving with taxi driving against Formula One - They all have drivers and engines - BUT I think you would say its a totally different type of business or game

Hope thats clears up this debate trying to make comparisons with Hedge Funds and Joe Bloggs trading his £10k capital account on FX or the Dow etc etc

Regards


F

 

[tomorton]

Considering Warren Buffett has made 22% per annum over 36 years and the S&p 500 returns about 8% per annum on average, I would say 15% is excellent. Does any trader on these boards make a better return per annum?

Comparisons have to be like with like. Warren Buffet's not a trader, so his returns are not comparable with a trader's. Most traders will probably aim to exit the markets once they've made a god enough pile to live on. Whereas an investor like Buffet will never be out of the market, in fact they will wish to pass on their shareholdings as inheritance.

 

[fx turtle]

A 15% return per year is very good if you are not actively trading, but if you are involve 16 hours per day, then 15% per year is not that good anymore. You have to ask yourself if the time and effort you spent is worth 15%.

Cheers,
FxTurtle

 

[Fred Titmus]

No, it’s not good at all because this never makes living just 1-2% a month.. In fact, it’s horrible!

 

[NVP]

I'd like to know how the traders across this forum would react to a 15% annual return, would you be happy with that return?

Today, I think it's an excellent return... but 3 years ago, when I read you could make 5-10% a week across the retail trading spectrum, I would of thought it wasn't worth getting out of bed for in relation to what I others were saying was possible.

Trading capital is a very important factor when considering return as it's directly relative to your trading capital e.g. 15% of £10,000 (£1,500) isn't going to change your life... but 15% of £500,000 (£75,000) is a respectable sum and would put you in a top 5 percent of salaries across the UK.

When you look at compounding 15% annually, it becomes even more impressive. See the following balance growing at 15% a year:

Start Balance
£10,000

Year Balance
1 £11,500.00
2 £13,225.00
3 £15,208.75
4 £17,490.06
5 £20,113.57

That's over 100% return in 5 years.

So... do you think 15% a year is worth getting out of bed for? I'm interested to see the opinions on this.

the key driver for me is volume of trades ...........15% will not work for most traders looking to leverage small deposits with brokers (something advised given recent debarcle on swissie depeg)

experienced scalping should provide triple digit returns annually if you know what you are doing and have a lot of experience ..........and keep those deposit levels to a minimum by withdrawing profits periodically paying yourself a salary

N

 

[paramaniac]

YES

Every month - with over 10% per month for over 5 years

BUT

I am not an investor with a capital base of multi millions or billions - thats a different ball game - - ie 15% on $500 million per annum - and you would say OK - not bad

Secondly - I dont compound - I hit my financial "wall" over 4 years ago and so I stay within my comfort zone - but still make an excellent cash reward per annum - more than I was earning at Director Level at a few large multi nationals going back over 20 yrs ago

So - can all members understand - investing and playing with millions is just another totally different ballgame compared to retail trading with normally Capital accounts under $100 or $50K.

Its like comparing truck driving with taxi driving against Formula One - They all have drivers and engines - BUT I think you would say its a totally different type of business or game

Hope thats clears up this debate trying to make comparisons with Hedge Funds and Joe Bloggs trading his £10k capital account on FX or the Dow etc etc

Regards


F

So you make 214% annually on your money? And you 'choose' not to compound? I don,t know if you realise this but £1000 compounded at 214% per annum would give you £90 million in 10 years! In reply to Evertontraders original post, let me say you will hear nothing but " I would'nt get out of bed for 15% per annum!" blah blah on this forum but how many FX day traders are on the Forbes rich list? Errr it's actually none.

 

[2be]

I'd like to know how the traders across this forum would react to a 15% annual return, would you be happy with that return?

Today, I think it's an excellent return... but 3 years ago, when I read you could make 5-10% a week across the retail trading spectrum, I would of thought it wasn't worth getting out of bed for in relation to what I others were saying was possible.

Trading capital is a very important factor when considering return as it's directly relative to your trading capital e.g. 15% of £10,000 (£1,500) isn't going to change your life... but 15% of £500,000 (£75,000) is a respectable sum and would put you in a top 5 percent of salaries across the UK.

When you look at compounding 15% annually, it becomes even more impressive. See the following balance growing at 15% a year:

Start Balance
£10,000

Year Balance
1 £11,500.00
2 £13,225.00
3 £15,208.75
4 £17,490.06
5 £20,113.57

That's over 100% return in 5 years.

So... do you think 15% a year is worth getting out of bed for? I'm interested to see the opinions on this.

It might be of interest to some, they need to have bed first, to start with.:whistling

 

[Fugazsy]

The reality is 10% per month consistently is very possible for a retail trader with an account less than 100000 but one has to very skilled, a bit like a surgeon and many years of experience is needed, actually more then a surgeon because the latter is guided into the right education while a trader is blinded by the wrong information.