Why you shouldn't demo trade

[wallstreetwarrior87]

None of the things you mention, such as arm bands, swimming the shallow end is harmful to your survival, but not doing them and jumping in the ocean could be. I don't think many qualified swimmers would say to a swimming student, don't bother learning to swim in a pool first, just jump in the ocean with nobody around to save you and go for it. Or perhaps there are, it's just that there are few surviving students left to tell the story.

I am not suggesting that we jump into the ocean to learn (hope it didnt come across that way? im not a masochist:-0). We must use the small pool 1st, as its real, and will create an emotion which we will then need to react to. It is a real environment, in which we can put our feet down if we fail to swim (small stakes stop out). You also need to see if you are freaked out by water (as some people are). If you are comfortable and succeed in swimming in the small pool, you move to the big pool, then ultimately the ocean.

We then realise that we can swim anywhere, and adapt to most conditions. In trading terms this means we can trade in all conditions (by limiting liability when things dont work out), hence the argument against systems etc. A decent trader can adapt and make a call on the market most of the time, and if they are wrong they know how to reduce the damage. This then reduces the need for certainty, and develops an ongoing improvement in controlling emotional threats that we will encounter. Which over time will mean improved trading results.

Rather than having to try to formulate another system or bot when the current one starts to falter


All IMHO of course, we all do what we want in the end.

 

[foroom lluzers]

I am not suggesting that we jump into the ocean to learn (hope it didnt come across that way? im not a masochist:-0). We must use the small pool 1st, as its real, and will create an emotion which we will then need to react to. It is a real environment, in which we can put our feet down if we fail to swim (small stakes stop out). You also need to see if you are freaked out by water (as some people are). If you are comfortable and succeed in swimming in the small pool, you move to the big pool, then ultimately the ocean.

We then realise that we can swim anywhere, and adapt to most conditions. In trading terms this means we can trade in all conditions (by limiting liability when things dont work out), hence the argument against systems etc. A decent trader can adapt and make a call on the market most of the time, and if they are wrong they know how to reduce the damage. This then reduces the need for certainty, and develops an ongoing improvement in controlling emotional threats that we will encounter. Which over time will mean improved trading results.

Rather than having to try to formulate another system or bot when the current one starts to falter


All IMHO of course, we all do what we want in the end.

Thousands of years of dna arouses subconscious behavioral patterns , these keep coming to life in your ocean , but what is required is being in the ocean for 6 continuous months (the mental training period for survival ) , your account will survive after 6 months of mental training for managing loss.

 

[itspossible]

ill read the thread fully later but i think its good to use a companies demo to get a feel for the platform.

 

[Illodius]

Demo account is a good thing but only for getting used to the platform and testing trading strategies. You need a real account to get actual trading axperience.

 

[-Catalin-]

We're all different I guess. I started in a live market on a options desk (screen based) and I trully found it scary. It took me much longer to learn due to irrational fears and even used to have nightmares about it ��. The emphasis was on getting the hedge right and despite it being rather simple, my mind was going blank. Even After a while I was capable of trading decent size in the broker market but still had issues with the screen. Looking back, had there been a demo option at the time I think I would have had a much better time.

 

[piphoe]

Demo account is a good thing but only for getting used to the platform and testing trading strategies. You need a real account to get actual trading axperience.

If you treat the demo account like you would a real account (i know thats not always easy or done, but do it) why isn't it helpful in fleshing out & improving your trading skills etc?

 

[Lee Shepherd]

We're all different I guess. I started in a live market on a options desk (screen based) and I trully found it scary. It took me much longer to learn due to irrational fears and even used to have nightmares about it ��. The emphasis was on getting the hedge right and despite it being rather simple, my mind was going blank. Even After a while I was capable of trading decent size in the broker market but still had issues with the screen. Looking back, had there been a demo option at the time I think I would have had a much better time.

Having 'a better time' is not what its all about. I also reckon had you have started on a demo account, you would have turned out very differently. That's why I don't like demo accounts.

Funny though, all the brokers and spreadbettors love giving them out for free ???? Not sure why????

 

[-Catalin-]

Having 'a better time' is not what its all about. I also reckon had you have started on a demo account, you would have turned out very differently. That's why I don't like demo accounts.

Funny though, all the brokers and spreadbettors love giving them out for free ???? Not sure why????

You sound just like my old boss and him saying I was live in the market is still one of the scariest things Ive experienced , and I had guns pulled on me on two occasions.

I totally agree that a certain level of competence is reached faster but still, if I had the choice I would have taken a longer junior role duration in exchange for more enjoyment.

 

[Lee Shepherd]

You sound just like my old boss and him saying I was live in the market is still one of the scariest things Ive experienced , and I had guns pulled on me on two occasions.

I totally agree that a certain level of competence is reached faster but still, if I had the choice I would have taken a longer junior role duration in exchange for more enjoyment.

Lol.

Back in my earlier days I frustrated my governor so much he pulled out my (messy) drawer and started throwing the objects at me tribunal style.

By the time he got to the scissors I was sh1tting myself, he stopped and laughed all while using the most offensive language that my mama would have used the soap on.

 

[Brumby]

If you treat the demo account like you would a real account (i know thats not always easy or done, but do it) why isn't it helpful in fleshing out & improving your trading skills etc?

The problem is with the word "if". Generally when you are in "demo" stage of development, there is seldom any understanding or application of position sizing, money or risk management towards the trading. It is the leverage (risk) that usually kill most new accounts. This is besides the main attribute in trading that you will never get out of demo and that is the psychology or mental performance piece.

 

[shadyee]

The problem is with the word "if". Generally when you are in "demo" stage of development, there is seldom any understanding or application of position sizing, money or risk management towards the trading. It is the leverage (risk) that usually kill most new accounts. This is besides the main attribute in trading that you will never get out of demo and that is the psychology or mental performance piece.

But for what is worth, newbies should still try out demo trading. Though your point is quite logical in that some attributes of real trading are not met by demo account. But it gives traders that sense of what the market is like, more like a closure to real trading.
in a nutshell, your attitude in demo trade protrude into real account!

 

[mpups]

To demo, or not to demo- that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the account to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous losses
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles,
And by starting with demo avoid them.

 

[shadyee]

To demo, or not to demo- that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the account to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous losses
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles,
And by starting with demo avoid them.

I would also add this quickly, demo trade is not just important for newbies but also for professionals too.
I say this because there might be features we need to try out but might be scared of bad outcome, but we can always try this out with demo trade without the fear of lose. It is true you might not get exact results as with real trade, but it would definitely be close.

 

[FPin]

I would also add this quickly, demo trade is not just important for newbies but also for professionals too.
I say this because there might be features we need to try out but might be scared of bad outcome, but we can always try this out with demo trade without the fear of lose. It is true you might not get exact results as with real trade, but it would definitely be close.

I'll ask you, dear trader.
How often did the demo account help you, and were the demo results at least approximately equal to those on the live account? Thank you.

 

[shadyee]

This is absurd, anyways everyone has got a choice to make here. whether to risk your real funds or practice before you go real.
My advice; please practice on demo before you go real, even though it is for a short while.

 

[Lee Shepherd]

Fpin asks a very good question here.

And Shadyee: professionals don't demo trade.Why?

Because trading is simple, you see something that you want to trade, you click the button - buy or sell. A five year old could master how to trade the exchange within an hour - I also find that they (children) seem to identify which way the market is heading in its most simplistic form (trend identification) - however, this does not make them profitable - along with so many others.

PS: It always makes me wonder when people say 'please do not do this', as if they did, would be bad for that person (Shadyee I'm addressing you here). If someone loses their money, this does not affect your life, in fact to the contrary, it can actually make you money as lets face the ignorant truth here, we need others to lose so we can gain. Think of it like this:

You open a coffee shop next door to a coffee shop - keeping it simple, you have not created any more coffee drinkers, all you have done is increased competition and choice, but the fact still remains, you need to be better than your competitor to succeed. If you are not, you will not have enough customers and you will fail.

I remain as my opening post - do not demo trade - reason: as posted - any more words - yes:

Demo trades do not harness the same results as being live, nor do they test you, therefore are useless. Demo trading is great for curve fitters and people who lack confidence and balls to make money. It also makes newbies think that they can (and will) find a solution and with the power of automation and systems, create something that will make them money moving forward. Only ignorant, desperate and gullible people believe this, and they will argue their point till blue in the face, the only argument worth having is how much you made from trading last year, are you profitable and have an adequate trading record that is both historically good and sustainable? If systems and automation exist and are possible, then why don't city traders, professors, psychologists, mathematicians etc, create one then sell it for millions of pounds to someone that has the money to trade it. In fact, spend 1 month of every year creating a system then sell it for millions, take the rest of the year off, surely that's got to be the best job in the world yes??

PS: It seems quiet at the Exchange today (or maybe that's just me), this could identify some movement later.

Magkaroon ng isang magandang araw ng kalakalan:

Lee

 

[DionysusToast]

Prop firms will put intern traders onto a simulator (well a Demo with realistic fills).

Once they can hit some consistency targets - they will be given live money to trade.

I find it odd that the OP says you are up against professionals and then say that you should go about it in a different way to those professionals.

There is nothing wrong with Demo trading. The best traders earned their accounts that way.

 

[DionysusToast]

Fpin asks a very good question here.

And Shadyee: professionals don't demo trade.Why?

It's not a valid question.

Professionals do demo trade.

 

[Penny Picks]

Don't trade a demo acct? Interesting concept; but dumb. The problem with most 'DEMO' traders is they get a demo with $25,000 to maybe $100,000 to play with.

What doesn't happen is the 'DEMO' trader does not adjust their mind set to allow for how much they actually plan on using for a 'Live" acct. ie: Actual cash in acct is $300. A Demo trader has to adjust their mind set to having only $300 in the Demo acct. Not thousands.

If they build that $300 into a sizable amount then they must be doing something right. However, if they lose it, they have to STOP TRADING and step back and analyze what went wrong.

That is why a DEMO acct works. If a trader has deep "Trump" pockets and can keep throwing money into a bad idea that doesn't work then maybe they shouldn't be DEMO trading.

I know; nobody trades with only $300; I do. It's quite possible with penny/small cap stocks. But; and that's a BIG BUT; a trader has to know how trades work and how they can be structured; enter the DEMO! :smart:

 

[piphoe]

Professional athletes practice many many more hrs than they put into their real game.

got to practice your setups, over & over & over again till confident they have positive expectancy.

the PRACTICE some more.but treat the acct like REAL $!

full stop.