Why is this so hard -- "lose" is spelt with one "o", not two!

meanreversion said:
Don't get me started on there/their/they're ... I'm convinced the majority of native English speakers now simply couldn't care less about the difference.
Click to expand...

I was thinking about this earlier, in fact.
In my experience, practically everybody seems unable to spell and use grammar correctly.
(I'm certainly no expert myself!)

I was watching 'the Apprentice' last week which supposedly brings together some of the most brilliant young minds in the UK today, all in very well paid jobs with degrees coming out of their arses! However, when they were planning their project on the white board, there were so many spelling mistakes! (in fact, funnily enough the word 'lose' was one of them!)

So for them to be in these high paid jobs, their employers clearly don't consider spelling important.
Do you think it will get steadily worse considering that the only generation who seem to be able to spell will be retiring within a decade or so to be replaced as mangers who do the hiring, by people such as those that appear in 'the apprentice'?

If they cant spell themselves, they would also have no problem with hiring other people who cant spell, and wouldn't even be aware of any problems as they cant spell themselves! Then the cycle would continue.

Maybe grammar really wont matter at all in a decade or so! Koooooooool

Is it do do with the education?
Are degrees really easy to get?
I never went to university, but from chatting with some of my friends who did (some very clever and some as stupid as me), it ws basically a matter of working hard (as in long hours copying from textbooks) but not really having to think!
Is that the case?
 
People make valid points about evolution of language and so on. But rules and structure liberate and enrich language, rather than constricting it as some seem to think.

Complex ideas cannot be effectively expressed without the subtlety afforded by the rules of language. It is all very well to say "People know what you mean if its splelt rong like" but this might not in fact be the case when discussing more complex concepts.

A world of discourse is closed to those who cannot, at least occasionally, elevate themselves over the colloquial and the close-enough.

Don't forget that, as all despots know well, it is not long before what cannot be expressed can no longer be thought.
 
redart said:
I was thinking about this earlier, in fact.
In my experience, practically everybody seems unable to spell and use grammar correctly.
(I'm certainly no expert myself!)

I was watching 'The Apprentice' last week which supposedly brings together some of the most brilliant young minds in the UK today, all in very well paid jobs with degrees coming out of their arses! However, when they were planning their project on the white board, there were so many spelling mistakes! (in fact, funnily enough the word 'lose' was one of them!)

So for them to be in these high paid jobs, their employers clearly don't consider spelling important.
Do you think it will get steadily worse considering that the only generation who seem to be able to spell will be retiring within a decade or so to be replaced as mangers who do the hiring, by people such as those that appear in 'the apprentice'?

If they cant spell themselves, they would also have no problem with hiring other people who cant spell, and wouldn't even be aware of any problems as they cant spell themselves! Then the cycle would continue.

Maybe grammar really wont matter at all in a decade or so! Koooooooool

Is it do do with the education?
Are degrees really easy to get?
I never went to university, but from chatting with some of my friends who did (some very clever and some as stupid as me), it ws basically a matter of working hard (as in long hours copying from textbooks) but not really having to think!
Is that the case?
Click to expand...

This might sound elitist but this is my take on things:

1) The participants on The Apprentice are not top of their game or even mid of their game. They wouldn't be taking part in a TV show for a job paying £100k if they were good at what they did. £100k PA is not a stratospheric amount of money to earn these days.

2) Spelling, grammar and ability to communicate. Most people I have worked with for at least the last decade earning a ton or more all know how to communicate well. This includes being able to write coherently and spell correctly.

3) You couldn't have passed a natural sciences degree without being able to think. When I interview youngsters now it is very, very obvious to me whether they are Russell Group or not.

Basically the smart people get well paid jobs because they are well educated and have an ability to learn and assimilate information quickly. The rest of the cannon fodder end up on TV or wondering why they can't find a well paid job because they were given a degree from a second rate university.

The democratisation of the degree has only been achieved by the reduction of it's difficulty and societal worth.
 
Ok, i am the idiot who had the lose loose spelling error in a my thread today. I think it is all bs and if you have tried to decode a sms from a 16 year old you will realize that it will be a pointless waste of time to have me study the inner and finner workings of any language because by the time these guys run the show they will feel that you are making a spelling error. I mean if it becomes the norm to communicate through criptic code as it were then you will be the one frowned apon as some old fool from an age gone past being anal and nostalgic, living in the past. So if i have to make an effort of some sort to learn special skills in language i will choose to learn the criptic code of the new generation instead of waisting my time to learn english spelling just to please some old fool.

Disclaimer - this post may contain spelling errors, please feel free to take out your red pen and spot the errors. It is a little extra bonus play game, so if you find the content boring you can at the very least have some fun correcting syntax, spelling and grammar.
 
ian23 said:
Ok, i am the idiot who had the lose loose spelling error in a my thread today. I think it is all bs and if you have tried to decode a sms from a 16 year old you will realize that it will be a pointless waste of time to have me study the inner and finner workings of any language because by the time these guys run the show they will feel that you are making a spelling error. I mean if it becomes the norm to communicate through criptic code as it were then you will be the one frowned apon as some old fool from an age gone past being anal and nostalgic, living in the past. So if i have to make an effort of some sort to learn special skills in language i will choose to learn the criptic code of the new generation instead of waisting my time to learn english spelling just to please some old fool.
Click to expand...

Just remember who holds the wealth in this country. It is the educated old fools. Guess who pulls all the strings?
 
The Engiish language has been constructed to relay more than the meanings most folk are educated to absorb,.....so to confine ones mind to rules, is quite limiting IMO !,........

Thinking outside of the box, is the next stage to enlightenment,...and that particular train don't come very often,.....so thunk on!!!
 
I do thank hotch for the correction and meanrevision for the explination of the loose lose thing. Robster you are indeed correct in pointing out that the wealth is currently held by the educated old fools. This however will not be so in the long term and as stated before one needs to adapt with the times. Even the educated children will resort to criptic code when communicating with their peers. And one thing you seem to forget is that language is a fluent affair and changes over time, no one speaks or writes like mr darcey or shakespear.
Hilarymannah - good point.
 
My favorite commentary on the matter...

From Astounding Science Fiction, Anthology 1946, by Dolton Edwards

...As a catalytic agent, we suggest a National Easy Language Week. Some spelling change would be announced, to be adopted in the coming year. All schoolchildren would be given a holiday, the lost time being the equivalent of that gained by the spelling short cut.

In 1946 we could eliminate the soft c, substituting s. This would be selebrated in all sivic-minded sircles. In 1947, we could substitute k for the hard c, as both letters would be pronounsed identikally. So two years of this prosess would klarify konfusion for students, and already we would have eliminated one letter from the alphabet.

By 1948 all skhool tshildren would be looking forward to the annual holiday, and, in a blaze of publisity, ph would be banned, henseforth to be written f.

By 1949, publik interest in the fonetik alfabet would allow a more radikal step forward - eliminating al unesesary double leters, whitsh, although harmles have always ben a nuisanse.

The advanse in 1950 would be to spel al difthongs fonetikaly. Tbough perhaps not imediately aparent, the saving in taime and efort wil be tremendous when we leiter elimineite the seilent e, meid posible bai the tsheinge.

In 1959 we would urg a greit step forward. As it would hav ben for yers sins anywun had used the leter c, we could substitut it for th. It would be som taim befor peopl would becom akustomed to reading buks wic sutsh sentenses in cem as "Ceodor cought he had cre cousand cistles crust crough ce cik of his cumb!"

So ce proses would go on, geting rid of y in 1952, alowing it to be reusd for sh from 1953. Kontinuing cis proses, we would eventuali hav a reali sensibli writen langug.

In fakt, by 1975, wi ventyur to sei, cer wud bi no mor uv ces teribl trublsm difikultis, wic no tu leters usd to indikeit ce seim nois, and laikweis no tu noises riten wic ce seirn leter. Even Mr Yaw, wi beliv, wud be hapi in ce noleg cat his drims fainali keim tru.
 
Ian - I don't disagree with your premise of adapt or die. I don't think that language will change anywhere near as quickly as you think though even with the advent of text, skype and other forms of instant messaging.

Shorthand is not language. Shorthand is just shorthand.

Incidentally the old fools children are likely to be encouraged through an education system that holds similar values to the one that educated their parents. The money will remain with the educated and along with that will be the ability to use language in many different ways, some formal, some not so formal. Those without the formal will be at a disadvantage. Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose.
 
Robster, i agree. For the most part it is true that old money remains where it is now. Educated children will resort to the ways of their fathers - some. Spelling however will not play such a prominent role in success in the future though. It will not be a sign of somebody that is well educated or intelligence.
 
Look - the point is, and it vexes me that some people don't find it obvious, or that they try to twist the matter - is that, in the limit, if spelling/syntax/grammar deteriorate sufficiently, COMMUNICATION itself breaks down (see Martinghoul's most recent post).

I accept that not everything everyone says or types can be flawless - fork knows I make mistakes - but it is rapidly reaching a point where the very meaning of the sentence is lost. Read the comments in the Daily Mail sometimes, the spelling will take your breath away. One reader recently opined that Wayne Rooney places Colleen on a "pedal stool".

So don't give me this "language evolves" sh1t.. of course it does.. but in order to communicate quickly and effectively, it helps greatly to observe the rules of the language at the time in which you live.

And are you telling me that children's lives are SO busy and occupied that they don't have time to learn anything important any more?

Double grrrrrrrrrr

My kids WILL know the difference between its and it's, trust me.
 
Meanreversion, i agree with you on this too. I am a bad speller and have always been. This does not mean that one should not try and educate your own children in the ways of your own language. I see even though i am bad at spelling many errors being made in the media and that is simply not right because it is their job to write so that just means they are crap at what they do if simple spelling mistakes occour in their work. You must however be more tolarent on forums because many people have english as a second language and no formal education in its workings. I mean, in my family no one can speak english. They can understand it very well because we have had exposure to it on tv and movies etc. I have picked up speaking english because i travel a lot. The thing is many people in countries such as even germany etc. do not even hear english on tv or in movies. They dont have it as a must take second language at school so it is up to the guys themselves to figuire it out. Now for me it is difficult writing here because i see that i make a spelling error, it gets underlined and i go back to it and try to figuire out how to spell it but as you can see it so happens that many times i just cant get it so i just move on. So as a pet hate i understand if you loose your marbles over some idiot writing for a newspaper but on a public forum hosting many second, third self taught english speakers you best politely help them out.
 
One for Martinghoul in the same vein. :LOL:

French fury at move to make English the language of Europe.

Making English the common language of Europe not only infuriates the French - it will make the Germans want to annex the EU negotiations. Tongues firmly in cheek, this is how we fear any changes will pan out .....


The European Commission has just announced an agreement whereby English will be the official language of the European Union rather than German which was the other possibility.
As part of the negotiations, the British Government conceeded English spelling had room for improvement and has accepted a five year phase in plan that would become known as Euro- English.

In the first year 's' will replace the soft 'c' . Sertainly, this wil make the sivil servants jump with joy. The hard 'c' will be dropped in favour of 'k'. This should klear up Konfusion, and keyboards kan have one less letter.

There will be growing publik enthusiasm in the Sekond year when the troublesome 'ph' will be replaced with 'f'. This will make words like fotograf 20 per cent shorter.

In the third year, publik akseptanse of new spellings kan be expekted to reach a stage where komplikated changes are possible. Governments will enkourage the removal of double letters which have always ben a deterent to akurate speling. Also al wil agre that the horibl mes of the silent 'e' in the languag is disgrasful and it should go away.

By the fourth yer, peopl wil be reseptiv to steps such as replasing 'th' with 'z' and 'w' with 'v'.

During ze fifz yer, ze unesesary 'o' kan be dropd from vords kntaining 'ou' and after ziz fifz yer, ve vil hav a reil sensibl riten styl. Zer vil be no mor trubl or difikultis and evrivun vil find it ezi tu understand ech oza. Ze drem of a united urop vil finali kum tru.

Und efter ze fifz yer, ve vil al be speking German like zey vanted in ze forst plas.
 
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