Hi, Daveyc, great to know frank people like you, what you've said is 100% true
Hi, Daveyc, great to know frank people like you, what you've said is 100% true
Vorbis
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I always assumed it was a representation of electrically charged sub-atomic particles leaving tracks in a bubble chamber.
thanks, i didn't think i would get any flack making the obvious point of trading is a form of gambling but some refuse to admit it to themselves and they don't realize that wall street is the biggest casino in the world.
TheBramble
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Who's yo mamma...
Spot on.
I got the image from CERN, bleached and reversed it and stuck on Chinese ideograms truly representative of yours truly. It hangs in my zen do and reminds me to never ever forget the magnificent power of intelligent bullsh!t.
In most cases option trading is not gambling. It is a benefactor who says to a broker "Here's my money, I'd rather you have it than the Salvation Army."
only if you are using them as a hedge as they are intended. too much of a hedge and you don't make money.
Who? The broker or the Salvation Army?
Primarily because they do not understand what makes options "tick" and do not invest the time to learn.
Most people lose trading options for the same reason most other traders lose. Their strategys do not overcome transaction costs. Only the best traders win as its a zero sum game. Tme decay is not the enemy. You get what you pay for. options are more complicated than simple directional bet which makes it harder for beginners. Take time to learn them.
I'm sorry, I disagree. With call options time decay is your worst enemy. Study and find out as much as you can about time decay because, believe me, for the call trader, even if the underlying price of the share goes up, the time wastage will ensure that you lose money on that option.
Perhaps I should correct. Time value is not such a bad enemy as believing that broker who tells you that "you cannot lose more than your stake".
That is true. What he does not tell you is that you will, probably, lose that stake 90% of the time.
Options were devised for those who
1) bought the underlying shares for a certain sum, have made a profit already,
2) can see that the price mght go down in the short/medium term but, being long term investors, do not want to sell the shares
3) Write the shares in the knowledge that
4) if the shares are exercised, they will make a profit because that exercise price is more than they paid, anyway, and because they, also, have the option money in their account, as well, which was, BTW, paid when they wrote the option but
5) 4 being the worst scenario, they will not be exercised so that they keep the shares and the option money, as well.
The above is what the share owner does. What must be remembered is that the shares that he writes are bought and sold time and time again.
After the share owners it is the turn of the brokers to churn the options and make their profit. Remember that everytime a trader buys a straddle, etc to hedge, the broker makes commission on both the calls and the puts. Double the commission. The trader carries all the risk.
This is a game for real professionals. If you are not one of those, keep out!
Ask yourself...who owns most of the shares? The answer must be the institutions.
The rest of us are scrambling after the crumbs.
That is why, when a financial crisis like this occurs, the gap between rich and poor widens-
Windlesham1
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I offer mentoring to allow people to come to their own conclusions once they understand how options work. It's not hard,it's a completely different mindset and I've known successful bond traders and accountants who simply cannot get their head around options. I love the complexity,and in time it becomes second nature. Directional trading is the hardest world of all as everything is against you. I can be very wrong with options and still make money,but anyone buying naked options(directional) is asking for a good hiding.
Windlesham1
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smokenfx you are very confused. Brokers do not sell options,they are exchange traded with prices made by market makers,or anyone else who wishes to buy or sell. I won't bore you with OTCs.
You can calculate price all day long but you can only get what is on offer,so trying to figure out the detail is irrelevant. I trade strategies so I often do not care what individual option prices are quoted,I just have a limit order that either gets hit or not. Brokers can be traditional telephone order type or fully electronic. The point is to understand the movement relative to the underlying,but when I can trade and make money whether the market goes up down or sideways,why would I choose any other vehicle?
Have a look at the many free options education sites on the 'net. CBOE has some great stuff,but that is about 5% of trading.
What I have learned over many years is that to trade well you must find a style that suits you and must be honest with yourself,that's the 95% people need help with.
You can calculate price all day long but you can only get what is on offer,so trying to figure out the detail is irrelevant. I trade strategies so I often do not care what individual option prices are quoted,I just have a limit order that either gets hit or not. Brokers can be traditional telephone order type or fully electronic. The point is to understand the movement relative to the underlying,but when I can trade and make money whether the market goes up down or sideways,why would I choose any other vehicle?
Have a look at the many free options education sites on the 'net. CBOE has some great stuff,but that is about 5% of trading.
What I have learned over many years is that to trade well you must find a style that suits you and must be honest with yourself,that's the 95% people need help with.
lloydbee
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I say 'mindset' and 'lack of knowledge and experience'
What is the difference between 'gambling' and 'speculation'?
A question for daveyc and all others that say Option trading is gambling...
Why do you consider trading to be gambling like so many and not speculative trading like what a speculative builder does when they 'spec build' a house! or is that also gambling to you all?
globalfutures168
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I think people like the idea of spending a little capital ( long call or long put ), with the hope of getting unlimited profit (if that call moves huge up, or put moves big downside); but most of the time, that just does not happen. The trader loses the premiums paid for calls and or puts. I say better to sell hope than to buy it.
John
John
Windlesham1
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To say trading is gambling is ignorant in the extreme. There are plenty of prudent traders who make money,and who,like me,trade for profit and freedom. There is no 'buzz' but from my experiences of betting on horses,gambling is a most depressing thing,and it just puts you in the company of losers.
Many people lose money trading options because they have not considered how to trade. Define your trading strategy and stick with it. Systems are more complex than people understand,so learn your system,look for the losses and see how/why they happened. Casinos make money,based on sound principles.Be the casino not the mug punter.
Many people lose money trading options because they have not considered how to trade. Define your trading strategy and stick with it. Systems are more complex than people understand,so learn your system,look for the losses and see how/why they happened. Casinos make money,based on sound principles.Be the casino not the mug punter.
so you must be referring to me as 'ignorant'. ok so lets see who is actually really ignorant. i more than tripled a pm account trading options in a year and STILL tell you that trading is gambling. i don't hold any advanced degrees. don't try to think that you have been given a larger brain than the average guy if you say you are above us lowly gamblers. don't use words that put you above anybody else just because you cannot admit to yourself and those around you that you have the addiction as well. and you should not consider yourself in the company of losers. don't give the b/s lines of being the casino, thats so overused and usually by those that want to sell you something on how to be the best options trader in the world.
NVP
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NVP
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guys ..........dont get to hung up correlating hyper-Intellignce to good trading Results
Traders just need to be smart enough to develop a decent system ....and then dumb enough to follow it ...
N
Windlesham1
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I don't claim to be smarter than anyone else but I am not ignorant about trading options,after 13 years.
You tripled an account presumably by gambling, so there's your own view of the world.
Gamblers are as you rightly say,addicted. I am not addicted nor do I get a 'buzz' from making money. It's just a fact of life.I have no interest in money but other people seem to, so I give it to them.
Gambling is a spurious punt based on nothing more than a whim. Option trading is based on any number of criteria. I can adjust my trade at any time.A gambler cannot. So far this year I have placed 7 trades. Measured,calculated trades with known risk and reward. That requires discipline,not a gambler's urge. So please,don't get mad because you have joined that crowd of hapless gamblers. Learn from your experience and move on,you will in time find trading to be rewarding once you have the temperament. That is the hardest part.
You tripled an account presumably by gambling, so there's your own view of the world.
Gamblers are as you rightly say,addicted. I am not addicted nor do I get a 'buzz' from making money. It's just a fact of life.I have no interest in money but other people seem to, so I give it to them.
Gambling is a spurious punt based on nothing more than a whim. Option trading is based on any number of criteria. I can adjust my trade at any time.A gambler cannot. So far this year I have placed 7 trades. Measured,calculated trades with known risk and reward. That requires discipline,not a gambler's urge. So please,don't get mad because you have joined that crowd of hapless gamblers. Learn from your experience and move on,you will in time find trading to be rewarding once you have the temperament. That is the hardest part.
