Vote Labour

[Mr. Charts]

including BNP or do they not count ?

so does that mean major political parties have to bend to the agenda of nazis?!

 

[montmorencyt2w]

Nothing would ever get done or agreed if this was the case in my view.


Paul

Based on some of the things that actually have been done, that might not be such a bad idea. What we need is not more legislation but better legislation. The main functions of an upper house are as a revising chamber for legislation and as a check on the "elective dictatorship" of the Commons (which in turn is, at the moment, under the thumb of the executive). We also need more independent-minded Parliamentarians. Under the present system (or the way it has been allowed to degenerate) the backbench members of the Commons have forgotten how to think for themselves. We see a bit more independent-mindedness in the Lords, but unfortunately, it is still organised on basically party lines, and with far too many people having been appointed to serve the interests of the executive (or the executive in the previous government which is just as bad).

What lies behind Wheatcroft's article, and behind my additional points is that the executive has become too powerful and the legislature too weak in our system.

We now have a "presidential" style of PM-ship without the balances that a properly established presidential system (like the USA - for all of its faults) has.

The usual argument against an elected Upper House is that it will just be a mirror of the lower house. Well, that could be solved in a number of ways, e.g staggering the time of elections or time in between elections. However, if we are aiming for annual elections (which would be a fundamentally good thing IMHO for both houses), that becomes more difficult (we don't want 6-monthly elections...that's getting silly). Taking away the parties from the Upper House would solve the "mirroring" problem. I suppose realistically, even if one wanted to, one could never abolish parties from the upper house completely and even if one succeeded, they would gradually creep back in some shape or form. But perhaps their power and influence could be substantually weakened though.

What we need is for the issues to be fully debated on their merits and not along predetermined party ideological lines. It would be good if that could happen in the Commons as well, but that will be a long time coming. Changing the Lords into a fully elected upper house would at least be one opportunity for much needed reform, and hopefully reform of the Commons could follow.

 

[montmorencyt2w]

"To which I would add: an (annually) elected upper house based on non-party lines. "

I would imagine the electoral turnout for an annually elected "upper" house would be under 10%.

Not if it was held at the same time as the election for the annually elected Commons. If it was elected along party lines at the same time as the Commons, I would agree that there is a danger that it will simply become a mirror of the Commons (although I don't think it necessarily follows). Getting rid of the parties in the Upper House should overcome this; I think it's a good idea to do that in any case.

Better to concentrate on a system where the "retirement" of the government party leader, i.e.the Prime MInister, had to be followed by a general election within three months.
Otherwise we could end up with an unelected and unstable incompetent PM who cannot be removed and with zero legitimacy, even when compared with Karzai............someone who in the depths of his insanity and megalomania thinks he has saved the world from financial melt-down......and will soon turn back climate change single-handedly.........

I don't disagree with the latter, although on the whole, prime ministers in office don't just resign. True, Harold Wilson did. Maggie was kicked out by "the men in grey suits". Eden resigned through ill-health (I know that's going back a bit). So did MacMillan(*) Arguably there should have been elections held then, true. However, I don't think it actually happens often enough to be worth worrying about. If the respective oppositions had had any gumption, they should have been able to force an election anyway. Maybe they had their own reasons not to want one at the time.


(*)MacMillan - one version of his life says it was because of the Profumo scandal, etc. Reading about him just now reminds me what a decent chap he was actually ... well to the left of Tony Blair, needless to say. (I realise that by saying that here (where people seem to have some strange idea that New Labour is socialist ) that puts me
well to the left of Leon Trotsky at least )

 

[Trader333]

We also need more independent-minded Parliamentarians.

This would be even worse than my first post said. How would you ever get any backing for anything if everyone is independently minded ? Even if you did it would never come to fruition. You can see what happens when a government has a small majority as was the case when John Major was PM. It was almost impossible to implement anything even when it was obviously good because there was not enough of a majority to vote it through. If there were no party allegiances then this situation would be impossible in my view.


Paul

 

[Atilla]

This would be even worse than my first post said. How would you ever get any backing for anything if everyone is independently minded ? Even if you did it would never come to fruition. You can see what happens when a government has a small majority as was the case when John Major was PM. It was almost impossible to implement anything even when it was obviously good because there was not enough of a majority to vote it through. If there were no party allegiances then this situation would be impossible in my view.


Paul

Not only that - big bribes and vested interests would be all over the parliament floor.

We'd be like Nigeria. To get anything done you would need lots of money for the politicians...

Another recipee for absolute destruction...

 

[counter_violent]

so does that mean major political parties have to bend to the agenda of nazis?!

I think you know the reason why middle britain is voting the way it is....and lets be absolutely clear...it is middle britain that is increasing the BNP's vote.

Everyone is totally pissed off with traditional parties and politicians and how they have squandered the wealth and ridden rough shod over the honest tax paying citizens.

They all needed a wake up call and they are now getting it.

I'll bet you they will be listening because the consequences of not listening will be brought home to them all.

 

[arabianights]

British deserve what they get.

GB peaked just before the boer war imo.

A new country has to be created. That's what I'm gonna do.

 

[dick_dastardly]

Since when did voters decide who wins the election?

Perhaps This Guy knows the answer to that question?

dd

 

[Pat494]

Let's face it Labour had a huge mandate in 1997 and have blown their own support away.

Blair has emerged from the mess with vastly increased wealth. He is about the only beneficiary from the 12 years !! Sold Britain out to U.S. etc. ?

This country 's tragedy is to have had 4 huge doses of Socialist crap :-
Ramsay MacDonald during the Great Depression
Atlee in the 40s
Callaghan and Foote in the 70s
Blair and Brown for the last 12 years

Every single time has resulted in economic disaster and near bankruptcy

So nobody who is able to judge their past efforts sanely and logically should vote Labour

 

[counter_violent]

Let's face it Labour had a huge mandate in 1997 and have blown their own support away.

Blair has emerged from the mess with vastly increased wealth. He is about the only beneficiary from the 12 years !! Sold Britain out to U.S. etc. ?

This country 's tragedy is to have had 4 huge doses of Socialist crap :-
Ramsay MacDonald during the Great Depression
Atlee in the 40s
Callaghan and Foote in the 70s
Blair and Brown for the last 12 years

Every single time has resulted in economic disaster and near bankruptcy

So nobody who is able to judge their past efforts sanely and logically should vote Labour

I would group Wilson Callaghan and Foot. Wilson knew the game was up and bailed before the poo hit....about the only smart thing he did do.

 

[0007]

Let's face it Labour had a huge mandate in 1997 and have blown their own support away.

Blair has emerged from the mess with vastly increased wealth. He is about the only beneficiary from the 12 years !! Sold Britain out to U.S. etc. ?

This country 's tragedy is to have had 4 huge doses of Socialist crap :-
Ramsay MacDonald during the Great Depression
Atlee in the 40s
Callaghan and Foote in the 70s
Blair and Brown for the last 12 years

Every single time has resulted in economic disaster and near bankruptcy

So nobody who is able to judge their past efforts sanely and logically should vote Labour

Agree your sentiments.

However, on a point of order: Ramsay MacDonald although a Labour politician, was PM of a National Govt 1931-5 which contained a majority of Conservative MPs and was certainly not regarded as socialist by the Labour party (and many others - to this day). MacDonald was (still is by many) seen as a traitor to the Labour party.

I still wouldn't recommend voting Labour

 

[Ambrose Ackroyd]

All politicians are self serving scum, somewhat akin to dog sh1t.

I will not be voting for any of the regular freaks like Brown ( apt as it is the colour of sh1t ), Cameron or Clogg.

Dig up David Sutch and ressurect the Monster Raving Loony Party !!!!

 

[zambuck]

....I thought that Monster Raving Loonies have been in charge of UK for last 50 years...!

 

[Ambrose Ackroyd]

I thought that Monster Raving Loonies have been in charge of UK for last 50 years

Not so.

For the past 50 years we have been ruled by scum who, if they were not pretending to run the country, would otherwise be employed to scrape congealed sh1t out of the bottom of sewerage pits.

The monster Raving Loony Party ( if you are old enough to remember it ) was the voice of reason.

Screaming Lord Sutch was a shining beacon who would have made an exemplary Prime Minister.

 

[Atilla]

If our National football team is managed by an Italian,

Why don't we elect Silvio Berlusconi once his time is up. At least he would be far more entertaining and hopefully would add Italian styling, class and passion in to our hearts.


Does anybody remember the times when the quickest way out of Manchester was via Gin. People are asking why we have the worst drinking binge culture in the World. It is to drown our sorrows and misery with our politicians!!!

Perhaps we should pay them more so they feel wanted and motivated to do some real work. :whistling

 

[Pat494]

Perhaps we should pay them more so they feel wanted and motivated to do some real work. :whistling

Not more !!
They get very well paid for a really cushy job that they haven't done well !!
Honourable members !! joke

They gave themselves 2 lots of 30% in recent years and the rest a measly 3%

We must get a better system that gets quality people who want to do a good job

I would like to see MPs and bankers on the minimum wage until their own MESS is cleared up - Fat chance tho

 

[Trader333]

The monster Raving Loony Party ( if you are old enough to remember it ) was the voice of reason.

So you are in favour of the policy for it to be compulsory to have asparagus soup for breakfast ?


Paul

 

[Ambrose Ackroyd]

So you are in favour of the policy for it to be compulsory to have asparagus soup for breakfast ?

Absolutely yes, with a huge dollop of Neapolitan ice-cream too.

http://www.loonyparty.com/index.php?page=manifestoproposals-1

 

[dimsdaletraders]

So you are in favour of the policy for it to be compulsory to have asparagus soup for breakfast ?


Paul

absolutely, as long as it is thick enough to spread on my toast...

 

[Atilla]

Not more !!
They get very well paid for a really cushy job that they haven't done well !!
Honourable members !! joke

They gave themselves 2 lots of 30% in recent years and the rest a measly 3%

We must get a better system that gets quality people who want to do a good job

I would like to see MPs and bankers on the minimum wage until their own MESS is cleared up - Fat chance tho But all the brains of the country would then leave to Frankfurt, Paris, NY or Tokyo... Where would we then be?

The system is precisely the problem. It is like a vegetable (celery - yuk ) giving birth to another vegetable (celery - more yuk :cheesy.

Politicians and judges and subsequently the police & army governed by judges and politicians likewise. We have no chance.

The Queen is quiete as a mouse and sweet as pie but some people want to roll her head too.


We are in the cusp of a new era. Things will get a lot worse before they get better...


I can't see what the Tories will do. They are the ones who are responsible for all this mess (in particular Mrs Thatcher). That is for Banks deregulation and hidden MP salaries in terms of claiming via daft extortionate expenses. Both her governments' creations. Festering disastrous policies. But keep it hush so no one can tarnish her daft claim to having solved UK industrial problems...

Not to mention her transport policies of giving car tax breaks and running down public services. Railway franchises and tracks negotiations and management are night mare.

The legacy of our current debt and policies will manifest them selves in the next decade or two.


Railways, post, gas, water, electricity, telecommunications, transport are natural monopolies. They do not lend them selves to multiple operators.

Governments role is to manage these services to the mass public. To privatise them is daft idea. We are offered choice? Really... I'd say mass confusion whilst in the process we all get ripped off while all these energy companies make mega profits.

Government will then implement - WINDFALL tax... WHAT A BRILLIANT IDEA.:clap::clap::clap:

I know of no other country that rewards failure on a scale that we do.

WE MAKE BIG ****UPS by little dicks LOOK GOOD and subsequently give them a golden hand - jerk-off that puts a big smile on their faces. Where is Fred Goodwin the shred now?



The millenium dome: £850m spent to celebrate one night... Life span 50 years.

Nice brilliant effing idea by our politicians with great vision... Tory and Labour...