Unfashionable Advice
- Thread starter Aleph Sigma Chi
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Concentration levels within individuals? Can concentration be taught? Can it be assumed by the individual to a point where they are more bothered about concentration than the actual thing they are supposed to be concentrating on? We all have to think. Self analysis is a component of successful trading. Spend too much time looking at yourself and you miss your real objectives. It's a fine line. The genetic make up of a person throws too many variables and constants into trading. We can all be catagorised, but, we are all too individual for anything more specific. Trading needs different people. All too often an absolute is sought after. There is no absolute. There is a perfect trade at every moment of the market, chasing it over and over again becomes sickening for some people. Compulsive obsessive disorder. Does trading get YOU that way?
Mr. Charts
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QUOTE
"Anyway, concentration. You’re walking in the woods. I tend to get lost in the woods often. Deliberately. When you’re off the well walked tracks and into the uncharted areas of any wood, things take on a different appearance. What you’re looking for are different types of tracks. Animal tracks. Not scat or paw-prints. Just the gentle indentations on the forest floor which indicate small animals have gone this way – a number of times before. You don’t necessarily know in which direction of course. But sometimes. Even those signs are clear. Anyway, they go this way and that often enough times to leave a visible track. But it’s only really visible when you’re not specifically looking for it - or at it. It appears, to me at any rate, as I’m looking over the entire landscape – which will be variable in depth and breadth as time passes and limited by my environment depending on how deep I am in the woods – as a ‘difference’ from everything else. It rather makes itself known to me by being ever so slightly different to everywhere else. It might only be a few blades of grass, I don’t know, I’m not a born tracker, but a few blades of grass here, absence of other things, such as twigs there – all indicate as the picture builds – a path through the woods."
END QUOTE
Aleph, very well said.
I was in Vermont a few days ago, on Stratton Mountain and looking round the southern part of the State; not quite as far north where you are.
Beautiful place you live - I can understand your forest analogy very well. I suspect your approach and philosophy are strongly influenced by your environment.
Your posts are excellent - a pleasure to read.
Richard
"Anyway, concentration. You’re walking in the woods. I tend to get lost in the woods often. Deliberately. When you’re off the well walked tracks and into the uncharted areas of any wood, things take on a different appearance. What you’re looking for are different types of tracks. Animal tracks. Not scat or paw-prints. Just the gentle indentations on the forest floor which indicate small animals have gone this way – a number of times before. You don’t necessarily know in which direction of course. But sometimes. Even those signs are clear. Anyway, they go this way and that often enough times to leave a visible track. But it’s only really visible when you’re not specifically looking for it - or at it. It appears, to me at any rate, as I’m looking over the entire landscape – which will be variable in depth and breadth as time passes and limited by my environment depending on how deep I am in the woods – as a ‘difference’ from everything else. It rather makes itself known to me by being ever so slightly different to everywhere else. It might only be a few blades of grass, I don’t know, I’m not a born tracker, but a few blades of grass here, absence of other things, such as twigs there – all indicate as the picture builds – a path through the woods."
END QUOTE
Aleph, very well said.
I was in Vermont a few days ago, on Stratton Mountain and looking round the southern part of the State; not quite as far north where you are.
Beautiful place you live - I can understand your forest analogy very well. I suspect your approach and philosophy are strongly influenced by your environment.
Your posts are excellent - a pleasure to read.
Richard
You are right!!
I must say that you speak like alot of true well spoken people I have known and for me I am one of the ones who will trade but will not untill I have learned the right way and try and learn the mistakes befor making them,I have done alot of things in my life but trading has been one thing I have wanted to do but have put off out of knowing it is not something you will jump into and get immed. results maybe failure and this I will not allow to happen to me.
Frankly I have been tring to read everything I can get my hands on and have taken coarse after coarse in the fin. world and still feel not ready but am starting to feel I understand more now then I did ten years ago,and honestly the main reason or a key reason is risking capital has been always a signpost of caution for me. I wanted to say I like what you say it is right to the point and people whom dont wanna loose there money should not enter this field of dreams because there are so many "sharks" out there that are ready to take it.
I must say that you speak like alot of true well spoken people I have known and for me I am one of the ones who will trade but will not untill I have learned the right way and try and learn the mistakes befor making them,I have done alot of things in my life but trading has been one thing I have wanted to do but have put off out of knowing it is not something you will jump into and get immed. results maybe failure and this I will not allow to happen to me.
Frankly I have been tring to read everything I can get my hands on and have taken coarse after coarse in the fin. world and still feel not ready but am starting to feel I understand more now then I did ten years ago,and honestly the main reason or a key reason is risking capital has been always a signpost of caution for me. I wanted to say I like what you say it is right to the point and people whom dont wanna loose there money should not enter this field of dreams because there are so many "sharks" out there that are ready to take it.
Aleph Sigma Chi said:
Homework! Do not rely on television commentators, strategists, biased money managers (who are talking their book!) in your decisions. Do your own research. Use the significant resources on the Internet to accomplish this. Use old-fashioned common sense! If things look too good, they probably are and will turn down. If things look too bad, they probably will turn around and improve. Don't be afraid to be a contrarian -- in small doses! When everyone (and their entire family) is long a sector or is avoiding a sector (and is exceptionally glib about it), it should be a sign to go the other way. Let your gains run and stop your losses! -- Don't average down.
Be a cynic and remain skeptical even when the good times are apparent! This especially true as it relates to government statistics. Let speculation be your guide! If investors all around you are losing their heads, don't lose yours. Read and reread the classic books on investing! In bull markets, the historical perspective is disregarded. But in bear markets, or volatile markets, the history lessons are invaluable as market conditions/influences are nearly always repeated. When times are tough (like the present), do not press your investments and do not overtrade! Mr. Market will be back up and running tomorrow ... and the next day. In uncertain times do a simple piece of homework: Reassess why you own each investment! Omega Advisors' Leon Cooperman taught me to draw a line in the middle of a page and list how you view the assets and liabilities for the markets and for each individual investment.
Be a cynic and remain skeptical even when the good times are apparent! This especially true as it relates to government statistics. Let speculation be your guide! If investors all around you are losing their heads, don't lose yours. Read and reread the classic books on investing! In bull markets, the historical perspective is disregarded. But in bear markets, or volatile markets, the history lessons are invaluable as market conditions/influences are nearly always repeated. When times are tough (like the present), do not press your investments and do not overtrade! Mr. Market will be back up and running tomorrow ... and the next day. In uncertain times do a simple piece of homework: Reassess why you own each investment! Omega Advisors' Leon Cooperman taught me to draw a line in the middle of a page and list how you view the assets and liabilities for the markets and for each individual investment.
JumpOff
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ahem... , <begin tangent>
I am greatly offended by the idea that a hog (200lbs. of meat dressed out) could be valued at 5 (only 5!) chickens (15 lbs. of meat dressed out). And besides, hogs are so much more handsome....
</end tangent>
Otherwise I am enjoying your posts.
JO
I am greatly offended by the idea that a hog (200lbs. of meat dressed out) could be valued at 5 (only 5!) chickens (15 lbs. of meat dressed out). And besides, hogs are so much more handsome....
</end tangent>
Otherwise I am enjoying your posts.
JO
Hi Aleph,
Here's a strange thing (or maybe not so strange).
I had just began to read your 'Overload' message, when I started to think of 'Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance'. Sure enough, later in your message, you mention exactly that book !!
It seemed to me that there are parallels between how, ( I think ), you relate to the markets (and are trying to get us to relate to the markets ), and the relationship the guy in 'Zen' has with his motorcycle.
After I read your message, I pulled 'Zen...' from my bookshelf and looked through it. On almost every page there are passages that seem very relevant to trading. Here are just a couple :
"An untrained observer will see only physical labour and often get the idea that physical labour is mainly what the mechanic does. Actually the physical labour is the smallest and easiest part of what the mechanic does. By far the greatest part of his work is careful observation and precise thinking. That is why mechanics sometimes seem taciturn and withdrawn when performing tests. They don't like it when you talk to them because they are concentrating on mental images, hierarchies and not really looking at you or the physical motorcycle at all. They are using the experiment as part of a program to expand their hierarchy of knowledge of the faulty motorcycle and compare it to the correct hierarchy in their mind. They are looking at underlying form."
"It's important not to tune these machines in the direct sun or late in the day when your brain gets muddled, even if you've been through it a hundred times you should be alert and looking at things"
I haven't read the book for a long while, but I think it's time I read it again. I've got the feeling that I will find a lot of insights about trading if I do.
Regards,
Ivor
Here's a strange thing (or maybe not so strange).
I had just began to read your 'Overload' message, when I started to think of 'Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance'. Sure enough, later in your message, you mention exactly that book !!
It seemed to me that there are parallels between how, ( I think ), you relate to the markets (and are trying to get us to relate to the markets ), and the relationship the guy in 'Zen' has with his motorcycle.
After I read your message, I pulled 'Zen...' from my bookshelf and looked through it. On almost every page there are passages that seem very relevant to trading. Here are just a couple :
"An untrained observer will see only physical labour and often get the idea that physical labour is mainly what the mechanic does. Actually the physical labour is the smallest and easiest part of what the mechanic does. By far the greatest part of his work is careful observation and precise thinking. That is why mechanics sometimes seem taciturn and withdrawn when performing tests. They don't like it when you talk to them because they are concentrating on mental images, hierarchies and not really looking at you or the physical motorcycle at all. They are using the experiment as part of a program to expand their hierarchy of knowledge of the faulty motorcycle and compare it to the correct hierarchy in their mind. They are looking at underlying form."
"It's important not to tune these machines in the direct sun or late in the day when your brain gets muddled, even if you've been through it a hundred times you should be alert and looking at things"
I haven't read the book for a long while, but I think it's time I read it again. I've got the feeling that I will find a lot of insights about trading if I do.
Regards,
Ivor
Fantastic piece Aleph, reminds me of the years I spent listening to a lecturer for hours at a stretch, reading his hand-outs (which I could not decipher for years, hardly any commas, punctuation, paragraphs, headings and whatnots), and eventually realized they came out of SWOTS.
LookAtThat
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dbPhoenix, Sulong,
Edit: I must have been feeling less tolerant than usual earlier (the strain of reading such long but interesting posts).
No it's probably reasonable to add to them when relevant and making a difficult point more clear db, although too much noise is too much noise
Edit: I must have been feeling less tolerant than usual earlier (the strain of reading such long but interesting posts).
No it's probably reasonable to add to them when relevant and making a difficult point more clear db, although too much noise is too much noise
Last edited:
dbphoenix, and others,
re: "I won't post further"
The Smashing and Bashing Unfashionable Advice thread was created for these barely pertinent but needed expressions - parallels, subjective analogs, comparisons, contrasts, doubts, and also more 'casual' postings and banter. It's where the quotes from other books belong.
It's where my 'those must be 5 mighty precious chickens' joke would have landed. . . etc
ie please 'post further' !!! Just move it over there.
All the best,
zd
re: "I won't post further"
The Smashing and Bashing Unfashionable Advice thread was created for these barely pertinent but needed expressions - parallels, subjective analogs, comparisons, contrasts, doubts, and also more 'casual' postings and banter. It's where the quotes from other books belong.
It's where my 'those must be 5 mighty precious chickens' joke would have landed. . . etc
ie please 'post further' !!! Just move it over there.
All the best,
zd
timsk
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Aleph Sigma Chi said:
Hi ASC,
I'm not sure whether your very extensive posts are offered here on a 'take it or leave it' basis or if you're wanting feedback of any sort? If the latter, I offer the following comments. . .
Much of what you write chimes with my own view of the world. It boils down to self discipline. Personally, I struggle to reconcile some of my beliefs with the way I live my life day to day. That is to say I don't do the things that I know I ought to do and I do do some of the things I know I ought not to do.
The extract above and much of the opening paragraph from which it is quoted, expresses this sentiment to a greater or lesser degree. It is indeed 'unfashionable advice' - for several reasons. In general, people don't like being told how to live their lives and, in particular, they don't like being told that there is only one way to live them. It smacks of religious dogma which, as we all know, is a veritable Pandora's box of angst, guilt and prejudice.
So, while there may be much truth in what you write, I suspect it is not politically correct and many will reject it out of hand.
Tim.
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