Ukraine invasion

I don't hate Russia, TBH I like Russia very much and I was following at least 4 russian youtubers.
I studied a lot of stuff about it, russian culture is one of the best, especially russian music.
It is not about Russia but about what Putin is doing with Russia.
 
CavaliereVerde said:
I don't hate Russia, TBH I like Russia very much and I was following at least 4 russian youtubers.
I studied a lot of stuff about it, russian culture is one of the best, especially russian music.
It is not about Russia but about what Putin is doing with Russia.
Click to expand...

OK, so at least you realize this isn't the 1950's...
 
counter_violent said:
Good, it is propaganda.
Brian next?
Galloway, another commy.

Commy's and sympathisers everywhere.
Click to expand...
No, it's an attack on the free press c_v.
Like you, rather than publishing a document that refutes their arguments - Zelensky/Ukraine goes for the messengers instead. That's the easy option - perhaps the only option - when you can't refute the arguments.

Brian (The New Atlas) is on the list, but the Pope isn't. Why not?

Ukraine Compiles List of Supposed Russian Propagandists​

 
timsk said:
Oh dear c_v,
Not content with with ignoring the message and shooting the messenger, you go a step further and shoot the person interviewing the messenger as well. 😲

Breaking news for you: I'm no lover of George Galloway either. But he has nothing whatsoever to do with the content. Gonzalo Lira could just as easily have done that interview with UK Column News - and I can assure you they're not 'commy sympathisers'. I even thought of adding a note below the vid' especially for you and your partner in crime saying something to the effect: 'comment on the content by all means - your thoughts would be appreciated - but please spare us your criticism of the the messenger and interviewer'. I only decided against it because I thought it was a tad patronising. But perhaps that's what I'm going to have to do with everything I link to from now on? Can't we just take it as read that you don't like any commentator or source who deviates from the mainstream narrative of 'Zelensky and Ukraine good - Putin and Russia bad'. There's really no point in any of us continuing to post to the thread if all you and CV are going to do is to ignore the message and shoot the messenger.
Tim.
Click to expand...

I didn't ignore the message. Just so happens I think it's all tosh. It has sod all to do with me following MSM narrative either. This is all to do with authoritarian dictators deciding what's best for everybody else and i'm not excluding morons like Biden and his socialist agenda or Johnson with his Covid rules, regs and mandates. Just who the F do any of them think they are exactly.

To understand my position. I don't believe anything anybody tells me until such time as iv'e verified the situation for myself. As for compliance, many have tried and failed to get me where they think I belong. Never gonna happen as they always find out.

And what's all this BS about "can't refute the arguments" !
For the most part I can't be arsed refuting blatant propaganda from known sources like TASS. As for the youtube "can't get a proper job" warriors. JHC they have ready made audiences who hang on their every word.
 
Last edited:
new_trader said:
Slogans...is this all you are capable of? :rolleyes:

All I see in this thread are outdated cold war era prejudices about Russia that I grew up with. Has Russia ever dropped a nuke on a country? Did Russia ever bomb the UK? There must be a reason why this prejudice exists, surely it can't be a hangover from the cold war era propaganda!? What is the reason to hate Russia apart from what the television has told you?
Click to expand...

Russia is another Super Power and limits what the West can do by backing other smaller nations trying to protect their own interests.

If not for Russia the ME would be totally 100% carved out and Western owned much like Africa was. Africa richest continent in the World for natural mineral resources and yet totally owned by foreign companies and national interests.

When Kuwait was invaded by Iraq, they had to pay the US billions to fight their war. As wars goes that was one of the most profitable of all time. After Iraq was destroyed any other nation who wanted to bid for construction had to pay into become a member of a consortium managed by the Yanks. Guess who got most of those contracts? Although it cost US 7 Trillion to their tax payer, private corporations probably made that and probably more in rebuilding and effectively owning Iraq.

So the story goes. Here we are in Ukraine.

That earlier post about payments of gold and payments to the US supporting their war against Russia continues.


Do the people see or have a voice in what goes on in our free democratic world?

Does Zelensky have a brain?

Do people think?
 
Mmmh so the logic is...
US was wrong with Saddam
US was wrong with Gaddafi
->>
Zelensky is a moron...

US is bad but this doesn't turn Putin into a hero standing against US

edit: US was bad 20 years ago , Putin is bad today
 
CavaliereVerde said:
To consider a message from a youtuber first I have a to assess his credibility and eventual bias.
Click to expand...
Wrong CV.
Just listen to what s/he says and, if you can't find evidence of your own that trumps theirs, then at least consider what they say with an open mind. If you always vet the messenger first and never consider their message, you'll never get a balanced view because you'll dismiss anything you don't agree with as the opinion of a 'commy sympathiser' or some such. Brian (The New Atlas) and Gonzalo Lira are both highly credible people. Neither of them express political views (as far as I'm aware); the former reports on what is published by the west and pro-Ukrainian sources and the latter reports on what is actually going on on the ground. You want to think otherwise because they put forward a point a view you disagree with - but can't refute.

Refuting an argument involves a process that I've outlined very clearly in an earlier post - one that both you and c_v have completely ignored. I'll summarise it again here:
1. Start by outlining the points made by Brian / GL (or whoever it is you're commenting on). NB: don't comment on the people speaking or interviewing - that merely exposes your own biases - just on what is said.
2. State what it is about the observations that you disagree with and provide evidence to support your view.
3. Outline an alternative narrative that you think is more credible and, again, provide evidence to support your view.

Do the above (as we on 'this' side of the argument do on a daily basis!) and you'll start to put together a credible position, built on a solid foundation that makes sense, stands up to scrutiny and can be used to justify your position to support the continuance of the death and destruction. Without that, you have nothing - which is where you stand at the moment. Just dismissing stuff as 'blatant propaganda' doesn't begin to cut it!
Tim.
 
Dated 15 February, pretty predictive...
kyivindependent.com

Illia Ponomarenko: Even if Russia attacks, Ukraine’s fall is not predestined

Editor’s Note: The opinions expressed in the op-ed section are those of the authors. It’s important not to lose the battle before it even begins. Right now, the Russia-instigated security crisis in Ukraine is threatening to become an all-out war of occupation. Against all the voices of reason,
kyivindependent.com kyivindependent.com
 
timsk said:
Wrong CV.
Just listen to what s/he says and, if you can't find evidence of your own that trumps theirs, then at least consider what they say with an open mind. If you always vet the messenger first and never consider their message, you'll never get a balanced view because you'll dismiss anything you don't agree with as the opinion of a 'commy sympathiser' or some such. Brian (The New Atlas) and Gonzalo Lira are both highly credible people. Neither of them express political views (as far as I'm aware); the former reports on what is published by the west and pro-Ukrainian sources and the latter reports on what is actually going on on the ground. You want to think otherwise because they put forward a point a view you disagree with - but can't refute.

Refuting an argument involves a process that I've outlined very clearly in an earlier post - one that both you and c_v have completely ignored. I'll summarise it again here:
1. Start by outlining the points made by Brian / GL (or whoever it is you're commenting on). NB: don't comment on the people speaking or interviewing - that merely exposes your own biases - just on what is said.
2. State what it is about the observations that you disagree with and provide evidence to support your view.
3. Outline an alternative narrative that you think is more credible and, again, provide evidence to support your view.

Do the above (as we on 'this' side of the argument do on a daily basis!) and you'll start to put together a credible position, built on a solid foundation that makes sense, stands up to scrutiny and can be used to justify your position to support the continuance of the death and destruction. Without that, you have nothing - which is where you stand at the moment. Just dismissing stuff as 'blatant propaganda' doesn't begin to cut it!
Tim.
Click to expand...

The former Soviet Union's whole history is based on invading, conquering, pillaging and absorbing weaker neighbours, some of them multiple times. What has changed, apart from nothing.

There's bugger all to discuss. Putin just the latest authoritarian expansionist dictator of a country with an extensive verifiable track record of offensive aggression. He needs putting in his place.
 
Last edited:
counter_violent said:
There's bugger all to discuss. Putin just the latest authoritarian expansionist dictator of a country with an extensive verifiable track record of offensive aggression. He needs putting in his place.
Click to expand...
c_v,
This is a discussion forum and this thread is about the Ukraine war. If, in your view, "there's bugger all to discuss", then why bother posting to the thread? The only possible conclusion a neutral observer could arrive at is that you're unwilling to discuss the points raised because your argument is built around empty rhetoric and meaningless slogans that add up to diddlysquat, don't stand up to the most basic examination and have zero impact or relevance to what is happening on the ground. This is evident for all to see from your responses to the last two videos I posted. No attempt made anyone on your side of the argument to address the points made in them. Just empty rhetoric and shooting the messenger.

As to your points about Putin: yes, he's a dictator. So what? Yes, Russia has a track record of offensive aggression. So what? So does the U.S. and lots of other countries. Putin may need "putting in his place" but, again, so what? So do lots of other national leaders. What's any of that got to do with what's actually going on in the battlefield? Nothing at all is the answer - it's completely irrelevant rhetoric.

If you don't want to discuss specific points raised - don't post. If you do want to discuss, then I'm interested to hear your views - but repeating the same things about Putin ad nauseam as if the more times you say them the more likely 'we' are to accept them - is as boring as it is pointless.
Tim.
 
timsk said:
repeating the same things about Putin ad nauseam
Click to expand...
It is the same than repeating and nauseam that everything is a US-NATO-CIA conspiracy.
BTW I agree that discussing about facts should have priority.
Understanding Russia, Ukraine and Putin's agenda seems more on topic than discussing about US and middle east.
 
CavaliereVerde said:
It is the same than repeating and nauseam that everything is a US-NATO-CIA conspiracy.
BTW I agree that discussing about facts should have priority.
Understanding Russia, Ukraine and Putin's agenda seems more on topic than discussing about US and middle east.
Click to expand...
CV,
You're being disingenuous.
Absolutely no one is suggesting that understanding Russia, Ukraine and Putin's agenda is anything other than highly relevant and extremely important. Indeed, that's exactly what At', histo', n_t and I have been doing all along. However, as you well know, that's not relevant to the specific videos I've posted - or the subsequent points I've made in response to you shooting the messenger rather than criticising the message. That's what you're failing to address. It's such a simple point and one that everyone (else) understands is the last resort for those who don't have a strong argument. Don't do it - it doesn't do anything other than reflect badly on you and leaves the reader little alternative but to assume that your argument is so vacuous that that you have nothing of any real substance to say. Sadly, that certainly appears to be the case.
Tim.
 
CavaliereVerde said:
It is the same than repeating and nauseam that everything is a US-NATO-CIA conspiracy.
BTW I agree that discussing about facts should have priority.
Understanding Russia, Ukraine and Putin's agenda seems more on topic than discussing about US and middle east.
Click to expand...
Well of course it is!

Why are they financing the war by sending billions? Why not spend billions on our own needy population?

Why have Biolabs conducting R&D in Ukraine, China or Nigeria?

It is not a conspiracy. These are facts FGS.

Iraq executing 9/11, having nukes and WMD were facts and now all BS constructions by CIA backed up by GCHQ.
Iran-Contra affair was CIA setup / conspiracy too. Oliver North was subsequently convicted for leading the operation.
There are many more examples of meddling in all over the world too.

ME yesterday, Ukraine today.

1. Russia's agenda is to stop NATO expansion to her borders.
2. Protect pro-Russian civilians being exterminated by Nazi Avoz Battalion supported by Ukrainian government.
3. Stop US funding Biolabs conducting dangerous R&D next door.

These are all facts.

Nothing to do with Putin.
Nothing to do with political systems.
Nothing to do with supporting democracy.


There is no point debating facts with you guys as you are so full of your own selves and above reproach, morally supreme and can't do wrong. Either way, the West is losing this war. EU is in the pooh. US and UK not much better.

BRIC nations inventing a new international currency and developing payment processing system. So soon we will have a two tier world. East and West. Countries North and South will need to pick clubs soon enough.

Let's hope it doesn't lead to Nuclear war.
 
Atilla said:
1. Russia's agenda is to stop NATO expansion to her borders.
2. Protect pro-Russian civilians being exterminated by Nazi Avoz Battalion supported by Ukrainian government.
3. Stop US funding Biolabs conducting dangerous R&D next door.
Click to expand...
It seems you bought 100% the russian narrative.
Happy denazification! (y) 👏

At least @timsk would like to stop the war to prevent further deaths, instead you really think Putin was right to invade!
Speechless...:oops:
 
Last edited:
CavaliereVerde said:
Click to expand...
"Apartment buildings don't shoot back."
There's the fundamental flaw with his argument laid bare. It is beyond dispute that Ukrainian forces are embedded in residential areas - thus making them legitimate military targets. So, the narrator's right that Russia wouldn't waste expensive missiles on apartment blocks to kill civilians. That would be beyond stupid, pointless and a complete waste of amo. Besides which, the optics are awful and gifts Ukraine a propaganda coup. Self evidently, (excluding the occasional accident), they only hit apartment buildings for good reason.

C_Vs - please note what I did there. I didn't shoot the messenger, I quoted the narrator and criticised the message without shooting him. Read, mark, learn and inwardly digest.
;)
 
The s300 were used to strike Mikoalyv some days ago, they were positioned south of Kherson, after that they were destroyed probably by himars so maybe that was the logic, they know they were doomed so they discharged them.

Yes ukranian neonazis are everywhere , it is the reason russians destroy every building before entering a village to "liberate" it.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

trendie
nasty invasive CMC advert
Replies
11
Views
3K
shadowninja
shadowninja
N Rothschild
Ukraine flu
Replies
0
Views
1K
N Rothschild
N Rothschild
M
Austria - Ukraine
Replies
0
Views
2K
markvighan
M
J
Ukraine plays?
Replies
8
Views
2K
PieterSteidelmayer
P
Y
Investing in Ukraine !
Replies
0
Views
2K
Yuriy
Y
Top