Ukraine invasion


"The Western media continues singing the praises of US HIMARS multiple launch rocket systems as well as the arrival of M270s from US allies across Europe. However claims that these rocket launchers are “more accurate” and give Ukraine a “game changing” ability are not only false, it omits the fact that Russia has much more capable systems firing rockets just as accurate and at much further ranges."
 
I have no doubts Russia has better missile launchers than Himars.
The logic is the same that I mentioned for fighter jets.
Wonder weapons are few or not tested enough.
They prefer to sell them than risking them on a real battlefield.
They are probably better at producing weapons than using them.
Russia could fight ww3 but is fighting ww1 : trenches and artillery.
Ukraine with himars is getting results that were impossible without them so yes they are making the difference.
They can blow stuff behind enemy lines and they are doing it.
 
new_trader said:
MSM/NATO/The West etc can call Putin anything they want, but the one thing they can't call him is gullible. When I saw the headline about the grain deal I immediately thought - there is no way Putin would give up Odesa that easily, there has to be a catch...and of course there is!

I have to agree, the missile strike appears staged (judging by the video footage) and right on cue the MSM have rushed in to denounce Russia. Whether is was staged or it was Russia makes no difference, the end result is the MSM is ignoring what was written in the deal (as far as I can tell). But I am just an armchair expert like Brian...I aspire to be a real expert who can post links to MSM articles in a forum....dare to dream....
Click to expand...

I always ask myself: who takes the profit of such staged news?

Russia gave up Snake Island to avoid to make it a point of discussion of a grain deal. So Russia is nsot interested in Odessa until the grain deal is done.

So I'm wating for the firstconfession about Ukrainian fake news like this:
waikanaewatch.org

CIA Director admits U.S. lied about Iran’s nuclear program — they ‘have not resumed the weaponization effort’

American officials are starting to admit Washington’s lies about Iran. William Burns, director of the CIA, said on Wednesday, July 20, that Iran has never resumed its nuclear weapons production pro…
waikanaewatch.org waikanaewatch.org
 
CavaliereVerde said:
Today they say it was a precision strike.
Click to expand...
edit:
Found the original source.

That's the original statement Maria Zakharova posted on Telegram quoting mainly Zelensky (not quite clear with all the inverted commas):

"Volodymyr Zelensky called the shelling of the port of Odessa "blatant Russian barbarism". "If anyone else could say that some kind of dialogue with Russia is needed, look at what is happening. The Kalibr missiles destroyed the very possibility of such statements. "The Kalibr missiles destroyed a piece of military infrastructure in the port of Odessa, sending a Ukrainian military boat to the Kyiv regime's favourite address with a precision strike."
[Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)]
 
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CavaliereVerde said:
Ukraine with himars is getting results that were impossible without them so yes they are making the difference.
They can blow stuff behind enemy lines and they are doing it.
Click to expand...
CV,
No one - least of all me - is denying that the HIMARS are very effective weapons systems and, if used correctly (a big if in Ukraine's case), can be an important feature of a coordinated military initiative. (Note emphasis.) So yes, I don't doubt that "they can blow stuff behind enemy lines and they are doing it". However, that's a far cry from turning the tide of the war - as you'd have us all believe - and being a 'game changer' that sees the Russians advancing in the reverse direction (i.e. retreating) back from whence they came. What you need to do is to explain to us how 16 HIMARS are going to achieve this when Russia has at least 48 Tornado-S's? Besides destroying their own infrastructure - what can Zelensky's forces do that the Russians can't?
Tim.
 
In don't know if russians are using 48 Tornados in Ukraine and what are they doing with them.
What Ukranians are doing with Himars is destroying ammo depots, command centers, bridges and railroads.
There is no "if"... I have already provided visual proof the ukranian are using himars in a very smart way.
They are few but IMO enough for the objectives, it is accuracy and intelligence vs quantity and firepower.
The goal is to cut supply lines and prepare the conditions fo the counteroffensive in southern Ukraine.
 
timsk said:
c_v,
The video you link to is of the exact same press conference that Brian of The New Atlas was talking about in his video that I linked to in post #1,887. He even provides a link to the transcript!!! So, pray tell, what is the point of your post, exactly?

If your interpretation of the press conference is different to Brian's and/or you think the points he makes are inaccurate or misleading in some way - then please enlighten us? Is "Brian can go swivel" the sum total of your argument - is that it? Ignoring the message and shooting the messenger appears to be all that the C_Vs can manage these days. Needless to say, that doesn't do a great deal to convince me that you're right in wanting the war to continue and for the west to spaff untold £$billions of taxpayers money into a futile effort that will only result in more needless death and destruction and will make little or no difference to the eventual outcome.
Tim.
Click to expand...

It's already made a difference. Russia from day 1 is not achieving it's objectives on any reasonable timetable.
Demoralised Russian, so called "troops" would rather jack it all in than continue the slog against a resilient and motivated Ukrainian fighting force. Ukraine may be less well armed but that is changing daily. Targeting the supply lines and bridges behind Kherson is exactly the right tactic. Once these supplies are cut, the Russian fighting rabble will collapse, become isolated with nowhere to run. They will be going home in wooden boxes.

There is nothing inevitable about the outcome of this invasion. The Russians are a shambles.
 
IlIlIlIlI said:
I didn't research whether there is a number of them used in the Ukrainian war.
Click to expand...
But this is precisely the point.
A lot of advanced equipment was destroyed in the first phase when there were columns of vehicles abandoned without fuel in the middle of nothing.
Probably they are not sending more to face the same fate.
Or maybe they lack trained personnel to operate them, you dont' need it if the goal is to sell.
War is not just a comparison of stockpiles.
 
Briefing by White House Press Secretary Karin Jean-Pierre and White House Coordinator for Counterproliferation COVID-19 Ashish Jha, July 22, 2022:

Dr. Ashish Jha, White House Coordinator for Counterproliferation COVID-19:
"... And as you all saw a few minutes ago, the President is feeling fine.
He slept well last night.
Ate his breakfast and lunch.
Completely.
He even showed me his plate."

Carine Jean-Pierre, White House Press Secretary:
"He showed me, right."

Q:
"What was on the menu?"
AJ:
"I didn't ask about the menu, but I saw an empty plate with leftovers."

K.Jean-Pierre:
"He did, right."

AJ:
"And I have a hunch about what was there, but I didn't ask."

Maria Zakharova posted that senile talk of the White House Briefings, and commented it on Telegram.
😳 What do they have going on there? A nuclear power, after all. Who controls the country?
 
CavaliereVerde said:
A lot of advanced equipment was destroyed in the first phase when there were columns of vehicles abandoned without fuel in the middle of nothing.
Click to expand...
No, as far as I remember it (avoiding a new research on this) they used more old Soviet stuff in the beginning.
Ukraine had mainly the same stuff.
That's why they had significantly more losses on servicemen, wounded or dead, than now.

I assume they wanted to hide their newer and better equipment in the first days and then changed their mind because of the losses.
 
Last edited:
counter_violent said:
It's already made a difference. Russia from day 1 is not achieving it's objectives on any reasonable timetable.
Demoralised Russian, so called "troops" would rather jack it all in than continue the slog against a resilient and motivated Ukrainian fighting force. Ukraine may be less well armed but that is changing daily. Targeting the supply lines and bridges behind Kherson is exactly the right tactic. Once these supplies are cut, the Russian fighting rabble will collapse, become isolated with nowhere to run. They will be going home in wooden boxes.

There is nothing inevitable about the outcome of this invasion. The Russians are a shambles.
Click to expand...
c_v,
If you're correct in your assessment, then it's reasonable to assume all of this will be reflected on the military maps which, surely, will show the areas coloured red under Russian control contracting? The thing is, they're not are they, they're expanding. I'd like to know how you reconcile what you want to believe is happening with what Ukraine's own maps show is actually happening?
Tim.
 
timsk said:
The thing is, they're not are they, they're expanding.
Click to expand...
The thing is that there is no expansion for the last 3 weeks, just verified on deepstate map.
Using the fires monitoring their shelling is significantly reduced since himars blowed their ammo depots.
After losing the depots they declared the "operational pause".
 
CavaliereVerde said:
Or maybe they lack trained personnel to operate them, you dont' need it if the goal is to sell.
Click to expand...
CV,
Let me see if I've understood you correctly. You now appear to be saying that Russia does indeed have all manner of superior fire power, but instead of using it in a war that they are currently fighting, they're selling it instead. Because of this, Russia is losing the war. Is that right?
CavaliereVerde said:
War is not just a comparison of stockpiles.
Click to expand...
It is if you're prepared to use your stockpile. Ukraine has used and lost most of what it started out with when the war began - that's why Zelensky goes around with a begging bowl asking every Tom, Dick and Harry to send him more kit. So, if Russia has significantly more kit and is using it, then surely you can see that it's a slam dunk certainty that they're going to win, eventually? The idea that they would risk losing the war just to make a few quid in the short term is for the fairies. Why on earth would they - it's not as if they're short of cash - as they've any amount of oil and gas to sell.
Tim.
 
I am not saying the they are not using thier best stuff because they want to sell it now.
They are more used to sell their weapons than to use them.
Having you wonder weapons destroyed (or towed by tractors) in Ukraine is not good marketing.
Probably they lack the trained personnel to use them, they lack reconnaissance and targeting so it makes more sense to use traditional artillery and fight like in WW1.
 
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CavaliereVerde said:
The thing is that there is no expansion for the last 3 weeks, just verified on deepstate map.
Click to expand...
1658682639132.png


1658682741954.png

deepstatemap.live

DeepStateMAP | Map of the war in Ukraine

News of russia's war against Ukraine on the map
deepstatemap.live deepstatemap.live

I see a difference in the last 3 weeks.

Since weeks Ukraine is mainly on alarm without action while Russia is shelling.
1658682886736.png

liveuamap.com

Ukrainian military destroyed Russian S-300 near Zelenotropynske in Kherson region Kherson - Ukraine Interactive map - Ukraine Latest news on live map - liveuamap.com

Ukrainian military destroyed Russian S-300 near Zelenotropynske in Kherson region. Live Universal Awareness Map Liveuamap is a leading independent global news and information site dedicated to factual reporting of a variety of important topics including conflicts, human rights issues, protests...
liveuamap.com liveuamap.com

It looks more like Ukraine has run out of ammo or trained sevicemen or lost their HIMARS completely.
When they starting using their HIMARS, the picture was slightly different.
 
There is so much tosh around peeps defending a losing Ukrainian / West position.

Some significant developments imo.

1. https://www.reuters.com/business/en...as-exports-nord-stream-1-schedule-2022-07-19/

2. Deal signed on exporting grain. https://www.euronews.com/2022/07/21...key-brokered-grain-export-agreement-on-friday

3. Europe has received the telegram that they are stuffed without Russian gas. Germany retreated on supply of weapons to Ukraine.

4. Russia has attacked the delivery of shipments and training of any foreign troops. Whatever the West has supplied, much of it was taken out before they could even be deployed. Intel everywhere. Eyes in the sky and all that. To deliver billions of $ollars worth of heavy arms and training in secret or disguise just not possible.

This fiasco will follow until the Ukrainian opposition party rises to topple the little sh!ty hero called Zelensky the tosspot comedian who will retire to spend his 20 pieces of silver in some Western sunset.

or

US will use it as a negotiating pawn with Russia in exchange for Russia dropping opposition to some other US national interest in another part of the World in a diplomatic deal. This is how this shit works.

It's all disposable assets, business opportunities and games for people in power.

As for the rest of monkeys pushing Western agenda, FFS wake up and smell the coffee. Ukrainians and Russians brothers and sisters are dying. It has absolute FA to do with Russian threat to EU or UK. So why the war?

Freaking NATO some defensive gang of fookers they have become. Does anybody know what is worth fighting and dying for? Threat my arse. It's just Yankee capitalistic greed. Money making corporations own America.



Timsk is right. Babbling on about what one wishes was the case without any evidence. So freaking keen to be proven right. Laughable comments without any basis.
 
IlIlIlIlI said:
It looks more like Ukraine has run out of ammo or trained sevicemen or lost their HIMARS completely.
Click to expand...
It doesn't seem to be so from your snapshot of today.
Look to the explosions near Kherson (including the blown s300 highlighted) and Melitopol, also in DPR.
Still no proof of himars loss but proofs of successful strikes every day.
 
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