Ukraine invasion

[Atilla]

I don't know in which direction CBS was going for the distance lie, but on Google Maps you see the shopping center and above (north) you see the depot less than 100m away.

Krementschuk · Poltawa, Ukraine, 39600

Poltawa, Ukraine, 39600

www.google.de

You also see rails into the factory.

You see how people are parking directly in front of it if the center is open and on other pictures you see that the debris is spread regularly on the ground. If there were a car, it would take the debris and it would not be spread on the ground this way. Or do you think the SBU staged the debris after the cars were removed?

Just use your own eyes and your own (!) brain - and the help of google maps.

Rufus dude, I think you should reply to this blog.

1. The guy in the CBS news says there is no Railway lines here and there are railway lines.
2. They say they walked 3/4 of a mile but the two edges of the building are approx., 97-100m apart on Googlemaps with what looks like vehicles and containers of sorts in between two buildings to me (assuming I have the right buildings talked about).

Even if the distance here is inaccurate, the railway lines are clearly visible.

Any comments on accuracy of CBS news broadcast and where did they find that guy?

 

[Rufus_Leakey]

Rufus dude, I think you should reply to this blog.

1. The guy in the CBS news says there is no Railway lines here and there are railway lines.
2. They say they walked 3/4 of a mile but the two edges of the building are approx., 97-100m apart on Googlemaps with what looks like vehicles and containers of sorts in between two buildings to me (assuming I have the right buildings talked about).

View attachment 319682


Even if the distance here is inaccurate, the railway lines are clearly visible.

Any comments on accuracy of CBS news broadcast and where did they find that guy?

This article has

Satellite images show the factory is 500 metres from the mall. According to independent military experts and researchers from Molfar, a global open source intelligence community, the explosion there could not have provoked a fire strong enough to reach another building that far away.

And before and after satellite images:

So the rail line is next to the mall but maybe not that close to the factory.

That article also has

Dozens of workers who survived, as well as witnesses who lived nearby, told the Guardian that the mall was open and busy when attacked. Debris included the remains of workers’ badges, and products sold that day at the supermarket.

And, the article refers to a tweet that has an alleged receipt from the mall before the attack to show it wasn't closed.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1541833986271477760

So, the evidence still shows a missile hit the mall.

 

[Atilla]

This article has


And before and after satellite images:
View attachment 319685
So the rail line is next to the mall but maybe not that close to the factory.

That article also has


And, the article refers to a tweet that has an alleged receipt from the mall before the attack to show it wasn't closed.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1541833986271477760

So, the evidence still shows a missile hit the mall.

Those satellite images not very clear and the industrial yard is a big area. I've looked again and the two are in very close proximity to each other. The distance is 627m from the furthest edges to each other and 97m from the nearest points. Certainly not 3/4 of a mile. Don't forget measurements in metres too. CBS news is very much crafted in blaming rther than reporting.

Railway lines clearly visible. So what that guy said is a blatant lie and misrepresentation too.


Anyhow, the accuracy of the Tu-X22 missile was apparently few hundred meters. So it is possible the shopping centre was hit. I doubt it was hit deliberately though. It's more designed to hit big ships. It was also delivered by a fighter/bomber from long range.

The big question still remains why do the Ukrainian authorities feel justified in using civilian infrastructure for the storage of military weapons and ammunition? Why not a farm? Some other industrial site out of civilian proximity to crowded places?

If you need railway transport, pick a remote desolate station at least?

Schools, Hospitals and Shopping Centres??? What next? One must question the strategic command of the Ukranian authorities in their actions.

Also, why send untrained young soldiers to the front line?

Why continue fighting a war contrary to all intel when losing. Question is more about the scale of the loss not if!

Some people, as well as you, clearly have no interest in saving or sparing lives as long as Russia is bad, US is super good guy narrative is aired on TV. Fodder for the masses.

 

[CavaliereVerde]

The big question still remains why do the Ukrainian authorities feel justified in using civilian infrastructure for the storage of military weapons and ammunition? Why not a farm? Some other industrial site out of civilian proximity to crowded places?

Clearly it is Ukraine fault, they put a mall just in front of the russian missile...
Clearly Ukranians have to be wrong just because US is on their side.
Sorry that I am repeating the same stuff but everyone here is doing the same.

I prefer to use common sense instead of blaming Ukraine for everything.
Thousands of civilian buildings destroyed intentionally, not because there were ammo/WDM/neonazis/CIA operatives/NATO nukes .
What I see here is consistent with the total destruction of Mariupol and partial destruction of Kharikiv.
It is consistent with the destruction of Grozny by Putin, that has never been a good guy.
There is no "going gently".
Russia is using everything available to inflict max damage to Ukraine.

 

[CavaliereVerde]

Money is indeed the root of all evil, and Z-elensky and his wife are pure evil – they are simply chasing western fame and money regardless if they throw Ukraine and its people under a bus.

Zelensky: " Hi Putin, could you please invade so that I can become a hero and make huge money with movies? "
I am sure it went this way...

 

[CavaliereVerde]

This is a fairly MSM publication that seems to support the Russian narrative

Putin's Bombers Could Devastate Ukraine But He's Holding Back. Here's Why

The Russian leader has to keep destruction and pressure at a very careful, just-bad-enough level to not draw in NATO but push Ukraine to negotiate.

www.newsweek.com

This article is pretty old, dated March.
It is before the russian brutality became evident.
In March the goal was still to capture, you don't destroy something that you want to capture.
The biggest part of destrucion of Mariupol happened after March 20th

 

[IlIlIlIlI]

Russian Special Forces Found New Evidence Of OSCE Collaboration With Ukrainian And NATO Special Services

On July 4, the Russian National Guard reported that it found documents of the OSCE which testified to the cooperation...

southfront.org

Thousands of civilian buildings destroyed intentionally, not because there were ammo/WDM/neonazis/CIA operatives/NATO nukes .

You must know that that is not the truth, truth is the first victim in every war.
I'm waiting for you quoting that sentence when Ukraine lost the war because they did not want to hit any civilian building - that would complete the big package of Ukrainian lies.

In the meantime, I've learned that you are one of those people who love to be fooled by Fake News as long as it comes from one of your favorite channels.

You have no solution to the Donbas problem. It is not a bit of a solution to give it back to Ukraine and start a referendum months later, because they would kill, arrest, torture and imprison several 10,000 Ukrainians there as collaborators and so on.
You don't respcet the 14.000 casualities before the invasion.
You don't want to pay salaries and pensions to Donbas residents, which are more than 2 billion Dollars meanwhile.
You prefer to support a Nazi (and U.S.) backed regime in Europe which fits not even one European standard.
You prefer to support a regime that signed the Minsk I and Minsk II agreements and didn't hold anything of it until today.

I intentionally adressed to you the problems which are to solve latest after the war.

 

[CavaliereVerde]

You must know that that is not the truth, truth is the first victim in every war.
I'm waiting for you quoting that sentence when Ukraine lost the war because they did not want to hit any civilian building - that would complete the big package of Ukrainian lies.

Maybe I dont' have the truth but I dont' think you have it.

The truth cannot come from a Russia that stated:
We are not going to invade Ukraine.
We have never invaded Ukraine.
A spontaneus fire destroyed warship Moskva.
Withdrawal from Kiev was a gesture of good will.
Withdrawal from Snake Island was a gesture of good will.
There is a difference between lies and propaganda.

 

[CavaliereVerde]

the Donbas problem

the Minsk I and Minsk II agreements

Putin's recipe:

1. find a problem with a neighbor (or create it)
2. invade
3. ceasefire agreement

 

[Atilla]

Maybe I dont' have the truth but I dont' think you have it.

The truth cannot come from a Russia that stated:
We are not going to invade Ukraine.
We have never invaded Ukraine.
A spontaneus fire destroyed warship Moskva.
Withdrawal from Kiev was a gesture of good will.
Withdrawal from Snake Island was a gesture of good will.
There is a difference between lies and propaganda.

Your points are really flimsy where as I-I's are very significant and substantial imo.

I think people can tell the difference. Other commentators are saying the same in the international press and even American historians and expert opinion that Russia's attacks are much more restrained.

Compared to the lies, deceits and actions of the so called West I find it incredible you can be so blind to the duplicity and hypocrisy demonstrated on these threads and by other clips time after time.

More importantly, no one in the West is seeking peace only escalation by supplying more weapons to untrained hands, sacrificial lambs to the cause to hinder and make Russia look bad.

fwiw, the rest of the World outside of US and EU are seeing and reporting a totally different conflict to what you read in the MSM.

I mean look at our BJ's latest proposal to increase the number of children one minder can look after in childcare from 4 to 5 without a corresponding increase in salaries. Moreover, Childminding crises continues, with the UK being the most expensive in EU. Teachers are very few and more leaving due to the pressures of looking after young children. Yet UK is quite happy finding £2bn to supply weapons to amateurs to kill their brethren or be killed themselves in pursuit of US agenda.

Sick world we live in.

 

[CavaliereVerde]

fwiw, the rest of the World outside of US and EU are seeing and reporting a totally different conflict to what you read in the MSM.

Can you enlight me with examples.
I want something reputable, not random conspiracy blogs or contrarian youtubers.
70% of the world condemned Ukraine invasion.
Here you like to compare to US and IRAQ ... Iraq invasion had very little international support.

 

[IlIlIlIlI]

Can you enlight me with examples.
I want something reputable, not random conspiracy blogs or contrarian youtubers.
70% of the world condemned Ukraine invasion.
Here you like to compare to US and IRAQ ... Iraq invasion had very little international support.

this is an example of the typical suggestive lies, as I call it, that Ukraine spreads, titled at Google with

UNSC countries strongly condemn Russian missile strikes on Ukraine​

UNSC countries strongly condemn Russian missile strikes on Ukraineâs peaceful cities

Six countries of the UN Security Council have published a joint statement, joined by Ukraine, strongly condemning Russian missile strikes on Ukrainian cities, including on a shopping mall in Kremenchuk, and voiced support for the Ukrainian people. â Ukrinform.

www.ukrinform.net

The UN Coucil has 15 members, so not even half of the Council sign the U.S. driven paper. I don't know what they promised to Albania , IMO the poorest country in NATO. Otherwise it would just be just a third, not 70% .

That's about the figure which really support the US cold war strategy against Russia.

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In Video: Hapless Fighter On Ukrainian TikTok Front Lines

A Ukrainian serviceman filmed a video threatening the Russian military. The TikTok fighter lubricated the rocket with cream, declaring...

southfront.org

 

[CavaliereVerde]

United Nations General Assembly Resolution ES-11/1 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[CavaliereVerde]

Just as comparison

International reactions to the prelude to the Iraq War - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[IlIlIlIlI]

Soon probably more Neo-Nazis in Ukrainian government and one Ukrainian Nazi less in Germany

Ukrainian envoy to Germany to return to Kiev, may become Deputy Foreign Minister â report

This decision was motivated by Andrey Melnikâs recent remarks regarding Stepan Bandera

tass.com

Berlin: Ukrainian ambassador praises Nazi Bandera - Angry Israeli reaction - CyprusMediaNet

Israel’s embassy in the German capital, Berlin, has reacted strongly to the statements made by Ukraine’s ambassador to Germany Andrii Melnyk (file photo, top, from globalhappenings.com) in favor of Nazi Stepan Bandera. “Attack” “The statements of the Ukrainian ambassador are a distortion of...

www.cyprusmedianet.com

Ukrainian envoy likens Nazi collaborator to Robin Hood - Мировые новости – последние события в России и Мире

inews.com.ru

Also interesting, that the English wikipedia is whitewashing this Nazi, while the German wiki documents his statements.

 

[Atilla]

Can you enlight me with examples.
I want something reputable, not random conspiracy blogs or contrarian youtubers.
70% of the world condemned Ukraine invasion.
Here you like to compare to US and IRAQ ... Iraq invasion had very little international support.

Go back and read the blog. I've pointed out countless hypocritical stances of the West with their duplicity in supporting vicious tyrants, fascists and dictators whilst killing civilians.

No, you can't sweep the Iraq invasion under the carpet as well as Libya and Syria. Wars started by US. Arab spring uprising my arse. Not to mention over 30 + wars, supported juntas torturing socialists and elected governments overthrown by the US of A.

Also the war between Iran and Iraq. And Afghanistan. So many freaking interventions.

The 9/11 attackers were Sauidies and Egytpions. 9/11 was an inside job too. Perfect demolition of three buildings, one not even hit by anything or flying debrie. Then there is a disappearing disintegrating aeroplane strike into the Pentagon. Someone must be having a good ol laf. Pull the other one it has bells on it.


US foreign policy is the root cause of countless wars and millions of deaths. Their democratic BS doesn't justify death and torture of innocent civilians.

Enlighten you with examples???

Your heart and soul has been darkened by lack of principles imo. You are beyond enlightenment. I can't but you can justify the deaths and torture of millions in the name of democracy. Hate to say it but I feel you are beyond help or enlightening.

 

[CavaliereVerde]

Your heart and soul has been darkened by lack of principles imo. You are beyond enlightenment. I can't but you can justify the deaths and torture of millions in the name of democracy. Hate to say it but I feel you are beyond help or enlightening.

WTH are speaking about?
I am not "pro US".
It is only that here being pro Russian seems a way to be anti US .
Ukraine is right and Russia is wrong.
And this has nothing to do with 30 years of US wars and bullshit.

Also interesting, that the English wikipedia is whitewashing this Nazi,

Or MAYBE the story of nazi Ukraine is pure BS ??

 

[timsk]

. . . Your heart and soul has been darkened by lack of principles imo. You are beyond enlightenment. I can't but you can justify the deaths and torture of millions in the name of democracy. Hate to say it but I feel you are beyond help or enlightening.

Fear not At', I'm pretty sure that CV doesn't believe half of what he writes and, for the most part, is just playing devil's advocate for the sake of lively debate. My reasoning being that he quite literally won't put his money where his mouth is and accept my bet - a wager that's heavily weighted in his favour - and will only set him back €50 tops in the event that he loses!

 

[CavaliereVerde]

No, you can't sweep the Iraq invasion under the carpet as well as Libya and Syria. Wars started by US. Arab spring uprising my arse. Not to mention over 30 + wars, supported juntas torturing socialists and elected governments overthrown by the US of A.

Also the war between Iran and Iraq. And Afghanistan. So many freaking interventions.

The 9/11 attackers were Sauidies and Egytpions. 9/11 was an inside job too. Perfect demolition of three buildings, one not even hit by anything or flying debrie. Then there is a disappearing disintegrating aeroplane strike into the Pentagon. Someone must be having a good ol laf. Pull the other one it has bells on it.


US foreign policy is the root cause of countless wars and millions of deaths. Their democratic BS doesn't justify death and torture of innocent civilians.

You are right.
The point is that supporting Ukraine does not mean justifying 30 years of US wars.

stances of the West

There is no "the west" , EU parliamet voted against Iraq invasion.
You tend also to confuse NATO with coalitions leaded by US .

 

[IlIlIlIlI]

Or MAYBE the story of nazi Ukraine is pure BS ??

There were enough protests in German MSM, as most people here don't know German, it doesn't make sense to quote it. That's why he has to leave Germany, it was not his decision.

You can start with the German wikipedia here where also some sources are listed, and the English whitewashing version is here. Try to translate the German wiki with google (should be good enough) or deepl.

Supporting Ukraine of today (and the last years) is supporting Ukronazis, there is no alternative interpretation.
But I doubt you are interested to find it out.