Ukraine invasion

[CavaliereVerde]

 

[IlIlIlIlI]

This is a typical Ukrofake made in 2022 after the war began.
If you believe this BS, please explain the 14.000 casualities the UN counted.

Incredible, it looks like Ukrainian officials are lying every second they don't sleep.

That is typical for Nazis, some German Nazis even the Holochaust.

Originals were published years ago, and also linked here, like

(published 2017)

 

[Rufus_Leakey]

So who started Iran's nuclear project then? Look that one up and get back to us?

It looks like the nuclear weapons program came from the east.

The Scientist Who Sold Nuclear Technology

How one man gave Iran, North Korea, and Libya the building blocks they needed to create nuclear weapons.

outrider.org

The Scientist Who Sold Nuclear Technology​

February 21, 2018
How one man gave Iran, North Korea, and Libya the building blocks they needed to create nuclear weapons.
Over the course of three decades, Dr. Abdul Qadeer Khan built Pakistan’s nuclear weapons program from a stolen uranium centrifuge design and a network of grey-market suppliers. But he wasn’t just working for Pakistan—he was exporting, too.

Khan in history​

Khan was born in Bhopal, India in 1936. He was one of seven children, the son of a schoolmaster. During the violent partition of India and Pakistan in 1947, the family chose to stay in Bhopal, even as millions of other Indian Muslims fled to Pakistan. As Khan grew older, the city’s Muslims faced increasing harassment from the Hindu majority. Four of his siblings left for Pakistan, and at age 16, A.Q. Khan followed them.
Khan enrolled in college in Karachi. He excelled as a student, and a few years after graduation he left to pursue graduate studies in Europe.

Khan worked for URENCO in Amsterdam, where he gained access to classified uranium centrifuge designs.
Khan got a masters degree in Germany and started on a Ph.D. in metallurgical engineering. He moved around a few times, got married, and finished his degree in Belgium. In 1972, Khan and his wife Henny moved to Amsterdam, where he had a job working for the European Uranium Enrichment Centrifuge Corporation (URENCO). By all accounts, Khan was a good worker, friend, husband, and father to two girls.

Pakistan’s nuclear ambition​

Following one of several wars with its rival, India—a war that had led to the loss of East Pakistan, now Bangladesh—Pakistan was desperate for security and self-reliance. The new leader, Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, formed a secret team to obtain nuclear weapons.
Then India detonated its first nuclear device in May 1974. Pressure to develop a Pakistani weapon intensified. Khan had been following the conflict from Amsterdam and thought that maybe he could help. Even though he didn’t yet have any connections to the Pakistani government, he reached out to offer Bhutto his services. Bhutto accepted.
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Khan got to work. Through his job at URENCO, he methodically stole classified plans for a centrifuge that would create bomb-grade uranium. After years of this, Khan began to raise suspicions—but by then he had enough information. He and his family quietly relocated to Pakistan.
In 1976, Pakistan founded the Engineering Research Laboratories to construct and run a uranium enrichment facility—a massive undertaking staffed by some 10,000 people. Khan was at the helm. The laboratory would eventually be renamed the Khan Research Laboratories, or KRL, in his honor.

Entrance to the Khan Research Laboratories in Kahuta, Pakistan.
But they needed more than designs—they needed the components to build the centrifuges. Khan used his connections in the West to purchase dual-use materials and technologies, which could be used for either civilian or military purposes. He used a network of companies in different locations to minimize international attention. While the United States was aware of what he was doing, Europeans export control laws were not very stringent, so the Europeans were not able to prevent businesses from supplying him with what he needed. So the lab’s work continued, supplied by businesses that were operating within the boundaries of the law.

Expanding the nuclear network​

Long before Pakistan tested its first nukes, A.Q. Khan began making deals with other countries interested in acquiring his lab’s technology. The Pakistani government made no effort to stop him; in fact, it’s likely that some within the government and military actively helped.
Iran was the first. In 1987, Khan closed a $3 million deal with Iran for centrifuge designs and the materials needed to produce them. In 1989, KRL began holding international conferences on uranium enrichment, advertising its capabilities to other nations. By the end of the century, it was sending salesmen to international arms shows to advertise its products. Khan was doing business with Iraq’s Saddam Hussein—though their deal fell through when the First Gulf War began.
In 1992, the Pakistani government reached out to North Korea to inquire about their missile technology. Over the next decade, the two countries traded missile technology for uranium enrichment technology.
In 2000, the United States shared their evidence of centrifuge trading between Pakistan and North Korea with Pakistani leader Pervez Musharraf—who pinned all the blame on Khan. But after the attacks of September 11, 2001, the United States turned a blind eye to Khan and Pakistani nuclear deals in exchange for help in the fight against violent extremism.

The beginning of the end​

Khan continued his work—but his fall was coming. In 2003, the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) found traces of highly enriched uranium on equipment in Iran—twice. For years Iran had denied that they had a nuclear weapons program, so they declared that the materials were secondhand, originating from another country. Pakistan—and in turn Khan—was implicated.
In October 2003, the British and Americans intercepted a ship carrying equipment to build nuclear weapons to Libya. Evidence connected the shipment with Khan. For one thing, the Libyan enrichment facility was being built based on the same stolen URENCO design as Pakistan’s.

Gas centrifuges intercepted en route to Libya in 2003 are held at a U.S. facility.

US Department of Energy
Months later, Libya turned over plans for an implosion device to investigators—again, it was the same one Pakistan had used. Notes in the margins implicated Khan even further. Pakistan was under a lot of pressure to act.

The fall of Khan​

Pakistani nuclear scientist Abdul Qadeer Khan in Islamabad on February 7, 2009. In 2004, Khan confessed to sending nuclear secrets to Iran, Libya, and North Korea, although he later retracted his remarks.

Farooq Naeem/AFP/Getty Images
On February 4, 2004, Khan appeared on live television and admitted to his sweeping role in the proliferation of nuclear materials. He claimed that he had acted alone, without the government—though many observers doubt this is true. As punishment, he was confined under house arrest in his lavish mansion in Islamabad. He was released in 2009.

 

[Rufus_Leakey]

True R_L, but it's funded by the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation which tells us pretty much all we need to know!


If you're of the view that John Mearsheimer is wrong on all fronts about Putin, along with the numerous and very illustrious people he quoted directly throughout his lecture in support of his thesis, then I presume you subscribe to the mainstream view broadly characterised as 'Zelensky & Ukraine good - Putin & Russia bad'? If so, how do you see the war being resolved?

Can we agree that rightly or wrongly, for better or for worse, the fact is that Ukraine is losing and losing badly, and the longer it goes on then the worse it will be for them? Assuming you agree with this, then would you also accept that the only way to stop Putin in his tracks is for Nato forces to become directly involved? However, if that happens, it's widely accepted that the risk of the conflict turning nuclear becomes very real. Assuming you want to avoid that as much as those of us on this side of the argument, how do you propose to win the war without Nato involvement and without negotiating a peace settlement with Putin?
Tim.

Washington Monthly is not funded by Bill Gates, but instead by some of his close friends.

Washington Monthly - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Funding[edit]​

The Washington Monthly receives financial support from the Lumina Foundation to provide coverage of post-secondary education-related issues.[16] The magazine has also received funding from the Schumann Center for Media and Democracy,[17] the Carnegie Corporation of New York,[18] and individual supporters, including Warren Buffett and Markos Kounalakis.[2]

And anyone that wrote a BASIC interpreter couldn't be all bad.

I don't disagree with everything John Mearsheimer says about the war in Ukraine. For example, Ukraine "winning" makes it more likely Russia will kill more civilians† with conventional weapons or go nuclear.

† pronounced нацистский in Russian

I agree with you that Ukraine is losing -- and so is the rest of the world including Russia. My opinion is let the parties directly involved decide what to do (in other words I have no good answer).

Maybe the solution is for Russia to start another "special military operation" the very near future?

NATO reaches a deal with Turkey to admit Sweden and Finland, secretary-general says

Both Finland and Sweden already meet many of the requirements to be NATO members.

www.cnbc.com

 

[IlIlIlIlI]

 

[timsk]

Washington Monthly is not funded by Bill Gates, but instead by some of his close friends.

Yes R_L, it is.
Go to the Washington Monthly 'About' page and scroll down to the heading 'Funders', where it says: "The nonprofit Washington Monthly is grateful to the following foundations and donors for their generous recent support", under which you'll see a link to the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. I suggest you edit that wiki entry which is clearly wrong.

I don't disagree with everything John Mearsheimer says about the war in Ukraine. For example, Ukraine "winning" makes it more likely Russia will kill more civilians† with conventional weapons or go nuclear.

† pronounced нацистский in Russian

I agree with you that Ukraine is losing -- and so is the rest of the world including Russia. My opinion is let the parties directly involved decide what to do (in other words I have no good answer).

The parties directly involved are U.S. and Russia with Ukraine stuck in the middle. Russia's deciding to pursue its military objectives and is clearly succeeding, while the U.S. and its allies are deciding to take any and all actions necessary to kill as many Ukrainians as possible and reduce their country to a pile of rubble while, in the process, scuppering the economies of most western countries. If you're happy about all of that - then continue to support the status quo.

Maybe the solution is for Russia to start another "special military operation" the very near future?

NATO reaches a deal with Turkey to admit Sweden and Finland, secretary-general says

Both Finland and Sweden already meet many of the requirements to be NATO members.

www.cnbc.com

This is a non-sequitur. If you want the death and destruction to end and to rule out the likelihood of the conflict escalating into a nuclear one, then join us on this side of the argument and call for the U.S. and it's allies to stop supporting Zelensky with weapons and funds and, instead, demand that he calls a ceasefire and, while he still has something to negotiate with, negotiates a peace deal with Putin. If you're not willing to do that, please explain why.
Tim.

 

[timsk]

Ukraine: Where’s the peace plan?​

"If we don’t create a road to peace, Ukraine may become another Syria"

 

[Atilla]

It looks like the nuclear weapons program came from the east.

The Scientist Who Sold Nuclear Technology

How one man gave Iran, North Korea, and Libya the building blocks they needed to create nuclear weapons.

outrider.org

The technology now may come from the East but Iran's nuclear program was started by the US.

When the Shah of Iran was in power, the target for those nukes would have been Russia.

So as before, be careful what you wish for comes to mind. Especially after all the puppets US puts up in power in countries that subsequently turn against it. There is a re-occurring theme here if you join up the dots of war throughout the 20th and 21st centuries.

 

[Atilla]

Yes R_L, it is.
Go to the Washington Monthly 'About' page and scroll down to the heading 'Funders', where it says: "The nonprofit Washington Monthly is grateful to the following foundations and donors for their generous recent support", under which you'll see a link to the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. I suggest you edit that wiki entry which is clearly wrong.


The parties directly involved are U.S. and Russia with Ukraine stuck in the middle. Russia's deciding to pursue its military objectives and is clearly succeeding, while the U.S. and its allies are deciding to take any and all actions necessary to kill as many Ukrainians as possible and reduce their country to a pile of rubble while, in the process, scuppering the economies of most western countries. If you're happy about all of that - then continue to support the status quo.

This is a non-sequitur. If you want the death and destruction to end and to rule out the likelihood of the conflict escalating into a nuclear one, then join us on this side of the argument and call for the U.S. and it's allies to stop supporting Zelensky with weapons and funds and, instead, demand that he calls a ceasefire and, while he still has something to negotiate with, negotiates a peace deal with Putin. If you're not willing to do that, please explain why.
Tim.

This is a neat summary of the current situation imo. Good write up Tim.

Ukraine has no voice, no parliament and ruled by a comedian who is clearly in the pocket of the US.

As mentioned the three options I see are:

1. Seek peace, stop the war, keep lines as they are and Ukraine remains independent and neutral and Joins EU.

2. NATO intervenes and risks Nuclear confrontation.

3. Do nothing and carry on. Ukraine suffers along with everyone else including Russia. Warlords get rich.

 

[CavaliereVerde]

1. Seek peace, stop the war, keep lines as they are and Ukraine remains independent and neutral and Joins EU.

Ok let's admit to go for this one.
In your opinion what would be Putin's next move?
What will happen to Russia in the next 3-5 years?

 

[timsk]

More truth bombs from the prof . . .

 

[Atilla]

Ok let's admit to go for this one.
In your opinion what would be Putin's next move?
What will happen to Russia in the next 3-5 years?

Putin will have a good send off as he is getting a little old now and I have Dymetri Medvedev as new leader, with safe hands to take over.

Ukraine would be better sorted out assuming the West don't continue with their sh!t stirring.

We can continue living in peace sighing relief nukes can be put back in the closets again.

Lessons will have been learned and next time peeps should talk more when there is an army outside your door step.

 

[CavaliereVerde]

nd I have Dymetri Medvedev as new leader

This is a very likely result even if Putin loses as I stated before.
What is your opinion about Medvedev, does he really thinks the BS he stated lately about "destroying the west" or it is a commedy to appear 100% aligned to Putin?

 

[Atilla]

This is a very likely result even if Putin loses as I stated before.
Whst is your opinion about Medvedev, does he really thinks the BS he stated lately about "destroying the west" or it is a commedy to appear 100% aligned to Putin?

That is just internal politics. He is aligned with current policy and voices support.

Demonstrating his hard-line credentials.

I would say he is positioning himself for the leadership position.

It should be clear to you by now that the West (aka US/UK) has provoked this war.

I agree and have always stated that we need balance of power in the world and foreign policy of the US hell bent on maximising the war machines' profits goes around the globe stirring brown stuff to generate revenue. Is this not obvious to people by now?

Do you really believe the democratisation trash they roll out? If you did they wouldn't be doing business with dictators, juntas and fascists.

 

[CavaliereVerde]

I agree and have always stated that we need balance of powe

We neeed more balance of power but possibly not more land controlled by dictators.

Do you really believe the democratisation trash they roll out? If you did they wouldn't be doing business with dictators, juntas and fascists.

They are not the avengers of democracy that they want to appear.
I just think they are right in this specific case.
I just think Ukraine is right and Russia is wrong in this case.

 

[Atilla]

I just think they are right in this specific case.

Categorically not. Contrary to all evidence. See John Mearsheimer analysis! NATO is being weaponised from being a defensive alliance to an aggressive baton. Think Cuban missile crises. Understand the duplicity and hypocrisy of the West. They are categorically wrong. See past US aggressions to other states too. Ukraine has just become fodder for the War Machine.

I just think Ukraine is right and Russia is wrong in this case.

Well as before when you say Ukraine who do you mean? The whole sh!t show has been orchestrated. If you believe in the comedian well and good. You follow him.

But you are p!ss!ng on the graves of 14,000 civilians who have died needlessly pursuing agendas of the West, Nazis and the Avoz Batallion.

Our opinions don't matter much when Ukrainians and Russians are dying fighting for US interests.

I really feel sad you still think this way contrary to all evidence.

 

[CavaliereVerde]

I really feel sad you still think this way contrary to all evidence.

My evidence is that Russia stole Crimea in 2014 and than "invented" Donbas to justify further creeping conquest.
The goal is to preserve popularity for Putin, he needs an enemy to keep Russia united and stay in power, an enemy and some small victories.
The second goal is to put frozen conflicts everywere to prevent former friends to join Nato.

 

[CavaliereVerde]

But you are p!ss!ng on the graves of 14,000 civilians who have died needlessly pursuing agendas of the West, Nazis and the Avoz Batallion.

Yes unfortunatelly they died pursuing the agenda of Putin , his attempt to create "Russian World" and "New Russia".

 

[Atilla]

Yes unfortunatelly they died pursuing the agenda of Putin , his attempt to create "Russian World" and "New Russia".

I don't think they had an agenda. They simply have preferences and relations with and in Russia. Not to mention they are close to Russia.

You suggest Russia orchestrated the separatist movement but this is the stirring that is usually pursued. Divide and rule strategy. I think Putin's essay is spot on, accurate and fair if you read it with an open mind and heart. Ukraine and Russia have joint history, speak the same language and inter-marriages and children too.

You say Russia stole Crimea. I find this shocking. Her main military fleet is based their and has been for as long as I can remember in my lifetime.

The issue is you just keep repeating MSM soundbites spreading lies and deceit - to support the Warlords because their public just lap up whatever is dished out to them by the likes of BBC.


New Russia and Russian World!!! Where do you get this tripe from?

 

[CavaliereVerde]

I don't think they had an agenda. They simply have preferences and relations with and in Russia. Not to mention they are close to Russia.

The same agenda than Transnistria, Abcasia.
It is Putin style, frozen wars to influence former soviet states.

You say Russia stole Crimea. I find this shocking. Her main military fleet is based their and has been for as long as I can remember in my lifetime.

It doesn't matter if you are shocked, Ukraine ruled Crimea from 1991 to 2014 and Russia paid for the military bases, like US with Guantanamo.
These are the facts and internationally recognized borders.

New Russia and Russian World!!! Where do you get this tripe from?

Putin's speeches.
Do your homework, not everything is US conspiracy like you pretend.