Ukraine invasion

[CavaliereVerde]

There is a misunderstanding.
When you blamed "western democracies" you wanted to blame mostly US.
I agree with your description of US.
US is pretty flawed as democracy, EU is much better on average.
Having said that there is competition and we cannot blame Biden for what Bush has done.

 

[counter_violent]

B0ll0X to that.

Freaking US doesn't respect her own or any other democracy either. Does biz with any corrupt, fascist / communist / other regime what ever it is in exchange for money. Over throws elected regimes and tilts elections in her own interests.

When election time comes in US the number of voting booths is not proportional either. In black areas there is disproportionately fewer voting stations and booths than rich sparsely populated areas. Thus poor people queue up for hours or just give up standing in queues and not bother voting. Richest freaking nation trumpeting democracy and the whole election process is rigged in favour of corporations, the rich elite exploiting the poor. The distribution of income is about wide and skewed as Niagra falls.

It's all about making money.

You need $100m just to enter the selection race. Corporations have far more power than individuals.

You really need to take your head out of this democracy nonsense in my sincere opinion.

You say, US often wrong but right this time. REALLY???

I'd say Western democracy is better represented by Europe. Not sodding America. Plllleaaasseeeeeeeeee catch a breath of fresh air. Even in Europe not quite a utopia but by far better than elsewhere.

And Russia is democratic is it !

Canoe without a paddle springs to mind.

Putin has ensured that Russia cemented it's status as a pariah country.

Ukraine just the latest country getting away from Russian tyrannical dictatorship. The list is long.

 

[Atilla]

There is a misunderstanding.
When you blamed "western democracies" you wanted to blame mostly US.
I agree with your description of US.
US is pretty flawed as democracy, EU is much better on average.
Having said that there is competition and we cannot blame Biden for what Bush has done.

I think we can blame the US yes.

Their foreign policy does not change. No matter which president is elected!

The reason is because the elected leader and the democratic process has little or not effect, as all power is in the hands of big corporations and vested interests, powerful lobby groups. Democracy is an illusion.

Laughable.

 

[CavaliereVerde]

Their foreign policy does not change. No matter which president is elected!

Obama was against war in Irak.
I think Bush foreign policy was completely different from Obama, the same for Trump and Biden.

I agree corporations have a big role but I would not fall into deepstate and conspiracy theories.

BTW we keep discussing about US ...
What is you opinion about Russia?
What is your opinion about Putin?

 

[IlIlIlIlI]

I'd say Western democracy is better represented by Europe.

Democracy is going down in Europe with every new law as Germany (or Europe?) passed end of April 2022 an extension of the "Netzwerkdurchsuchungsgesetz" (Network Search Act) from 2018 that also so called "fake news" have to be checked against these "fact checker" companies.

Facebook admits in court that its “fact checkers” are just truth censors

Thanks to a lawsuit, executives at Facebook (Meta) have been forced to admit that the social media platform’s so-called “fact checking” program is nothing more than opinion-based censorship. The admission came in response to litigation filed by John Stossel, who sued the Big Tech behemoth for...

medicalcensorship.com

George Soros And Bill Gates Funding Facebook’s Fact Checkers​

Facebook's 'Independent Fact Checkers' Funded By Johnson & Johnson's Stockholder: Report

Facebook's fact-checkerson the COVID-19 vaccines were found to be sponsored by stockholders behind of the major pharmaceutical companies manufacturing the jabs.

www.christianitydaily.com

 

[IlIlIlIlI]

As I searched for my post above, I also found this

FACT CHECK: Does This Video Show A Ukrainian Drone Destroying Russian Tanks?

The video is from 2020

checkyourfact.com

 

[Atilla]

And Russia is democratic is it !

Canoe without a paddle springs to mind.

Putin has ensured that Russia cemented it's status as a pariah country.

Ukraine just the latest country getting away from Russian tyrannical dictatorship. The list is long.

I told you before, that countries do try and implement open democracy and markets, Western influences, corrupt the process and buy votes because they can do so.

In large part, some of these regimes are as a consequence of direct intervention and response to Western meddling.

Look at Gadaffi. He had some fantastic visions and ideas for Africa. He was dealt with pretty quickly. Why did the West in particular European countries like UK and France interfere and deny him his Pan-Africa-wide ideals.

China and Russia in no way would have achieved the highs they have without their current political systems.

The fact that they have is a recognition of their achievements contrary to all sorts of interference and attempts to bring them down.

 

[CavaliereVerde]

Look at Gadaffi. He had some fantastic visions and ideas for Africa. He was dealt with pretty quickly.

Gheddafi is controversial, good ideas about Africa but still a mad dictator.
If you look for a true african hero Sankara is the one:

Thomas Sankara - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

China and Russia in no way would have achieved the highs they have without their current political systems.

Strongly desagree on this.
Try to compare Russia to Poland and China to Taiwan.
Ok big countries need strong leadership but democracy is the only way to reduce corruption.

 

[timsk]

Our Russia strategy has backfired
Biden is more likely to be toppled than Putin, writes Anusar Farooqui in UnHerd.

Biden’s war on oil is funding Putin’s war on Ukraine
President Biden’s bizarre and implacable hostility to U.S. oil producers is helping Russia win its war against Ukraine.

 

[timsk]

For better or for worse, regardless of who's right or wrong and who's good or bad, the facts on the ground clearly show that Russia has the upper hand. No better visual representation of that than the chart of the Ruble . . .

 

[new_trader]

Let me repeat, the founding fathers did NOT want the USA to be a Democracy, this is why they created a Constitutional Republic.

The Heritage Foundation states that the Founding Fathers saw that, “because ancient democracies lacked any social or institutional forces that could check, refine, or moderate the will of the majority, they were prone to great instability”. This instability left democracy vulnerable to tyranny and abuse.

 

[Atilla]

Let me repeat, the founding fathers did NOT want the USA to be a Democracy, this is why they created a Constitutional Republic.

The Heritage Foundation states that the Founding Fathers saw that, “because ancient democracies lacked any social or institutional forces that could check, refine, or moderate the will of the majority, they were prone to great instability”. This instability left democracy vulnerable to tyranny and abuse.

This has much value which is becoming apparent as democratic countries are hijacked with some clever crafted planning and simple mind manipulations such as Murdoch's attention-grabbing newspaper headlines as well as
online mechanisms with the likes of Facebook and Cambridge Analytica.

I never forget the effect spitting image had on politicians back in 80s/90s.

Simple people aren't interested in policy or governance. It's all about presentation and individual persona leading a party. More a celebrity election then politician to govern and lead a nation of people.


Spain went 300 days without a government and most things just ticked along quite nicely. Sometimes I wonder if we need government when we have online voting. Decision could be made on discussions by interested parties at the turn of a coin with online voting. Maybe, it could be trialled in Scotland, the usual guinea pig for great ideas like the poll-tax.

 

[CavaliereVerde]

I never forget the effect spitting image had on politicians back in 80s/90s.

Simple people aren't interested in policy or governance. It's all about presentation and individual persona leading a party. More a celebrity election then politician to govern and lead a nation of people.

It is not just about election or average stupidity of people.
A real democracy has separation of powers and mechanisms to prevent the leader to stay in power forever.
I autocracies the leader mostly work to protect his regime than for the interest of the nation.
No real freedoms, no real rights, police state.

 

[CavaliereVerde]

Look at abortion rights. Fuck religious people's rights judging others with their god delusion.

Look at the right to die.

I agree but ethics is a very extreme subject.
I am speaking about more basic stuff like having a fair trial.
In autocracies you can be arrested and just "desappear".
Russia is not so bad, even today.
China is much worse, and Saudi Arabia is even worse IMO.
In democracies the gov protects the citiczens, in autocracies the gov bully them.
Many citizens do not care about influencing decisions but they want to have freedom and rights.

 

[timsk]

It is not just about election or average stupidity of people.
A real democracy has separation of powers and mechanisms to prevent the leader to stay in power forever.
I autocracies the leader mostly work to protect his regime than for the interest of the nation.
No real freedoms, no real rights, police state.

CV,
It's depressing to read your post given all the content provided right here on this thread which shows beyond all reasonable doubt that what you've written has, at best, only a vague resemblance to the truth. Surely you understand by now that BoJo and Biden and other so called leaders are just puppets? (I think you've said as much in earlier posts?) They're not the ones that have the real power; they're useful idiots who stand dishevelled on podiums and fall off bicycles. Yes, we can get rid of them in a way that the Russians can't easily get rid of Putin but, note emphasis, that makes no difference as their replacement(s) will much the same - or worse. Ditto with political parties. Replace the Tories with Labour or the Democrats with Republicans - it'll make little or no difference. Your cherished democracy is largely an illusion and, as n_t points out for a second time, has flaws which the U.S. founding fathers were all too aware of, which is why there's no mention of it in their constitution. There are any number accounts of Russians who've lived in the west who'll tell you that they enjoy greater freedoms in Russia than we do in the U.K. or Italy. And no, I'm not supporting Russia or saying their system is better than ours - merely that ours isn't anything like as good as you seem to think it is - and is going downhill by the day. If you care so much about western democracy, you'd do far better to use your time and energy doing what you can to protect what's left of it than to worry about those in far off lands who don't have it and, for the most part, don't want it.
Tim.

 

[CavaliereVerde]

Ditto with political parties. Replace the Tories with Labour or the Democrats with Republicans - it'll make little or no difference. Your cherished democracy is largely an illusion

Even if the candidates are medocre or similar there is competition.
Rotation and competition protects us from the continuation of bad policies and from a megalomaniac leading the country to self destruction.
I know real power is often hidden but we have rights and freedoms.

 

[timsk]

Even if the candidates are medocre or similar there is competition.

Oh dear CV, you're just not getting it.
Competition between puppets is meaningless. The results are meaningless. The system is broken and you're being distracted and hoodwinked by those who want you to think that replacing BoJo, Biden or whoever will make a difference. It won't.

Rotation and competition protects us from the continuation of bad policies and from a megalomaniac leading the country to self destruction.

Err, no, it doesn't. The megalomaniacs are the same and remain in power regardless of the puppet figurehead of the day. That's my point!

I know real power is often hidden but we have rights and freedoms.

Rights and freedoms that are being gradually eroded. Correction: not gradual at all. They're being swept away at unprecedented speed. Once gone - they'll be gone for good. The Online Safety Bill is just one example. Another is the new Bill of Rights. No one who has read and understands the implications of these bills believes for one minute that the government has our best interests at heart. They absolutely don't. And, just to underline the point, if passed, these bills will be in place long after BoJo's gone and whoever comes after him has gone and so on and so on.
Tim.

 

[timsk]

Anyone who takes the time to watch the very informative 'New Atlas' video linked below will be left in no doubt whatsoever that not only is Russia winning the war comprehensively but, more importantly, Ukraine has absolutely no hope whatsoever of being able to do anything about it. The only possible way to stop the advance of Russian forces is by direct Nato involvement which, as has been said hundreds of times, risks the conflict turning nuclear. As mad as Biden and BoJo undoubtedly are - they're not quite that mad. I hope!

To perpetuate the war will result in three things and three things only:
1. More needless loss of life.
2. More needless destruction.
3. Loss of yet more territory by the day that Ukraine won't get back.
It has to stop. Now!
Tim.

 

[CavaliereVerde]

the very informative 'New Atlas'

The channel seems to be all-in pro China.
Promoting on youtube a country that is so "positive" to ban youtube.

 

[timsk]

The channel seems to be all-in pro China.
Promoting on youtube a country that is so "positive" to ban youtube.

Oh dear oh dear CV - is that really the best you can do?
Here's a suggestion for you, followed by a challenge. What I do when looking at YouTube videos, listening to podcasts or reading blogs etc. is to watch, listen and read the content presented and then consider how accurate and plausible it is. Brian's (the presenter) stance on China - whatever it may be - has absolutely no bearing on the conclusions he makes about the war, which are all fully referenced and are, for the most part, from pro-Ukrainian sources. I suggest you watch, listen and read content with the same open mind, rather than trying to smear those who present a viewpoint that's uncomfortable for you.

Now the challenge. Watch the video with said open mind and comment on what he says and, if you can, provide evidence that contra indicates his clear and logical conclusions.

Tim.