If the position now ramains as it was when I considered and rejected CFDs the real concern is the mixing of client funds with those of the CFD operator so that in the event of the operator's insolvency the client has no protection.Arbitrageur said:
Directional
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that would depend on whether the firm concerned offers account segregation or not which would differ between firms. I'd imagine acc seg will not be offered when you're dealing with CFD's at an SB firm, but any brokerage arrangement would be fully seg accounts in most all cases - I was classed as Intermediate customer when I was trading at Marex but i had individually segregated account, as it should be.
adrianbuthee
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Thank you Arbitrageur and Jack O'Clubs. Nail on the head as usual.
We require all customers to be Experienced Customers, in FSA parlance, this is the equivalent of an Intermediate Customer. For this you have no rights to the ombudsman and compensation scheme, however for this you do receive certain freedoms of trading, like the gearing mentioned above.
Anti-Money laundering is something we must be extremely strict on. If we don't have the correct proof of address and identity paperwork from clients, we will not open your account, otherwise our staff can go to prison.
We place certain safeguards however which you will not find from other brokerages, namely your funds will be held in a client segregated account, completely separate from corporate and other clients' funds. Funds are held with Barclay's in the UK also.
I hope this clears one or two things up for you all.
Happy New Year and happy trading.
Adrian Buthee
TwoWayFutures
We require all customers to be Experienced Customers, in FSA parlance, this is the equivalent of an Intermediate Customer. For this you have no rights to the ombudsman and compensation scheme, however for this you do receive certain freedoms of trading, like the gearing mentioned above.
Anti-Money laundering is something we must be extremely strict on. If we don't have the correct proof of address and identity paperwork from clients, we will not open your account, otherwise our staff can go to prison.
We place certain safeguards however which you will not find from other brokerages, namely your funds will be held in a client segregated account, completely separate from corporate and other clients' funds. Funds are held with Barclay's in the UK also.
I hope this clears one or two things up for you all.
Happy New Year and happy trading.
Adrian Buthee
TwoWayFutures
Adrian Buthee
I have no problem with the anti money laundering precautions that you take. My concern was that if TWF collapsed or if there was any 'jiggery pokery' my money might be lost.
Are you saying that if either of the above events was to occur clients money would be safe?
Regards
bracke
I have no problem with the anti money laundering precautions that you take. My concern was that if TWF collapsed or if there was any 'jiggery pokery' my money might be lost.
Are you saying that if either of the above events was to occur clients money would be safe?
Regards
bracke
adrianbuthee
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Dear Bracke
Thanks for your message.
If TWF / Futuresbetting collapsed your funds would not be affected since they are held completely separately from the corporate money. How likely it is that Futuresbetting will collapse largely comes down to proprietary risk and as I said, this is significantly reduced from direct hedging and as such no positions are taken against clients.
Of course if anything happens with your money that is illegal, then you will be entitled to take legal action as would be the same with any company, UK or otherwise.
Regards
Adrian Buthee
TwoWayFutures
Thanks for your message.
If TWF / Futuresbetting collapsed your funds would not be affected since they are held completely separately from the corporate money. How likely it is that Futuresbetting will collapse largely comes down to proprietary risk and as I said, this is significantly reduced from direct hedging and as such no positions are taken against clients.
Of course if anything happens with your money that is illegal, then you will be entitled to take legal action as would be the same with any company, UK or otherwise.
Regards
Adrian Buthee
TwoWayFutures
Phil Mibbutz
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Is the minimum account opening amount still £5k? Understand the 'experienced traders only' rule, but I still think TWF would entice more to try them with a lower initial deposit. Surely no-one would want to trade anything but small stakes until they were completely happy with the way the platform works, so why not?
Jack o'Clubs
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Got an email from FB last night - some changes afoot other than the website. A new trading interface to be launched soon (anyone familiar with the Speedwell NG platform that they're moving to?), and new and simpler comms/spreads structure. On the face of it looks like it will be cheaper than previously for anyone trading >50 lots per month but will need to see next month's statement to be sure...
Phil - yes I think the £5k minimum still stands.
Phil - yes I think the £5k minimum still stands.
Jack o'Clubs
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It depends on whether the charging is at the higher rate for your first 50 lots and then you switch to the next tier, or whether if you are a >50 lots trader you automatically start trading at the >50 spreads. I thought the wording on the spread card was a bit ambiguous, but maybe I'm a bit thick, lol. I assume the latter, in which case it's good news.
Hey Folks,
I spoke to FB this morning and they tell me everyone will pay the higher rate on the first 50 contracts they trade. I also wanted to point out that thier rate card shows per side commission, so round turn is twice what they quote.
I mainly scalp DAX, my average trade is 5-10 full DAX points on a single contract. I can't see any sense in staying with FB now and paying 28Euros RT on the first 50 when I can go with someone like proactivefutures at 3.6dollars per round turn.
Seems to me it will probably be cheaper and psycologically much easier to pay the tax.
I spoke to FB this morning and they tell me everyone will pay the higher rate on the first 50 contracts they trade. I also wanted to point out that thier rate card shows per side commission, so round turn is twice what they quote.
I mainly scalp DAX, my average trade is 5-10 full DAX points on a single contract. I can't see any sense in staying with FB now and paying 28Euros RT on the first 50 when I can go with someone like proactivefutures at 3.6dollars per round turn.
Seems to me it will probably be cheaper and psycologically much easier to pay the tax.
Jack o'Clubs
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Hmmm, that changes things a bit... Seems it's not going to be cost effective to use them for anything other than significant volumes, which my position trading style certainly isn't going to come close to reaching.
EDIT - not as bad as I thought - see post a couple down.
EDIT - not as bad as I thought - see post a couple down.
Last edited:
Jack o'Clubs
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I'll need to spend this afternoon doing some maths to check that IB+tax isn't a better option than FB tax-free on these new charges.
EDIT: Just plugged the old and new charges into a spreadsheet and I reckon the 'breakeven' point between old and new charges is about 150 contracts a month (so 75 round-turns), although this depends a bit on the instruments you trade. Less than 100 contracts it definitely works out more expensive, more than 150 it should be cheaper.
EDIT: Just plugged the old and new charges into a spreadsheet and I reckon the 'breakeven' point between old and new charges is about 150 contracts a month (so 75 round-turns), although this depends a bit on the instruments you trade. Less than 100 contracts it definitely works out more expensive, more than 150 it should be cheaper.
A Dashing Blade
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dbfm said:
Yup
Reading between the lines, this is an attempt to lose their infrequent traders.
As an aside, was interested in the Ninja interface info ie Ninja can now take in an FB data feed + has the com or dll linking mechanism.
Anyone have any views on Ninja Trader?
neil
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Ninja
Some views on Ninja Trader pour vous:
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/searc...=1607734&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending
A Dashing Blade said:
Some views on Ninja Trader pour vous:
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/searc...=1607734&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending
hobby
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Sorry to resurrect an old thread but I'd like some advice from the old hands here.
Having been an active trader on IG Index for a number of years, my trading is now getting to be frequent & large enough to investigate other alternatives.
I'm attracted to the TWF blurb because of the apparent low spread & no price skewing...particular the latter, I reckon IG's price skewing has cost me a fortune over the years.
Now then, I thought the cost savings seemed great, but reading through this thread I have to admit I'm somewhat confused....all this talk of commisions, round trips, IB being cheaper
So, can someone please advise the best trading vehicle for me...
I trade on average Dow Daily £10-£15pp, Dax Daily £10pp (though take the odd trade as high as £30pp), averaging about 3-6 times per day (sometimes no trades, sometimes just one). I often roll over my daily positions (which obviously costs)
When I say best path for me, in priority order....
1. No price skewing....NONE, NADA, FC*K RIGHT OFF with your lousy way out quotes!
2. Lowest costs (ie spread + commision) for my 'level' of trades.
Happy to pay a monthly subscription, if it keeps the costs down...it all evens out in the wash I guess.
Many thanks,
Having been an active trader on IG Index for a number of years, my trading is now getting to be frequent & large enough to investigate other alternatives.
I'm attracted to the TWF blurb because of the apparent low spread & no price skewing...particular the latter, I reckon IG's price skewing has cost me a fortune over the years.
Now then, I thought the cost savings seemed great, but reading through this thread I have to admit I'm somewhat confused....all this talk of commisions, round trips, IB being cheaper
So, can someone please advise the best trading vehicle for me...
I trade on average Dow Daily £10-£15pp, Dax Daily £10pp (though take the odd trade as high as £30pp), averaging about 3-6 times per day (sometimes no trades, sometimes just one). I often roll over my daily positions (which obviously costs)
When I say best path for me, in priority order....
1. No price skewing....NONE, NADA, FC*K RIGHT OFF with your lousy way out quotes!
2. Lowest costs (ie spread + commision) for my 'level' of trades.
Happy to pay a monthly subscription, if it keeps the costs down...it all evens out in the wash I guess.
Many thanks,
fibonelli
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Hi Hobby,
If you're based in or around London, they're running a seminar early next month.
Alternatively, see their website for webinars about their platform.
Good luck
Fibonelli
hobby
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Thanks for the quick response...as it goes I am in London so may check them out.
Do you have an opinion on them vs any other trading platform/brokerage for my level of trading? (ie are there hidden costs that I've not picked up on that makes them much of a muchness spread wise vs say IG....even if this were the case I'd still lean towards them just because of their claim of no price skewing)
Hey Hobby,
I've given this a lot of thought since this thread started, and for me it all comes down to how much money you actually make because that is of couse what you would pay tax on if you were to use a conventional broker and trade the real market.
At a guess, if you can manage to make money trading DAX with IG, you will almost certainly be better of with FuturesBetting.com (the company for whom TwoWay are an introducer). The spread for index futures, particulary DAX, is already extortionate.....
The best advice would be to look through your last couple of months trading and work out what you have paid in commision, and what you would have paid with TwoWay, and also with a conventional broker. Depending how much you trade and how much you make there will be a fairly obvious level where it becomes cheaper to pay TwoWay than pay the government...however, on my calculations that level is surprisingly high and at least tax goes towards making the country a better place, rather than just filling the pockets of FuturesBetting.
All the best,
DBFM.
I've given this a lot of thought since this thread started, and for me it all comes down to how much money you actually make because that is of couse what you would pay tax on if you were to use a conventional broker and trade the real market.
At a guess, if you can manage to make money trading DAX with IG, you will almost certainly be better of with FuturesBetting.com (the company for whom TwoWay are an introducer). The spread for index futures, particulary DAX, is already extortionate.....
The best advice would be to look through your last couple of months trading and work out what you have paid in commision, and what you would have paid with TwoWay, and also with a conventional broker. Depending how much you trade and how much you make there will be a fairly obvious level where it becomes cheaper to pay TwoWay than pay the government...however, on my calculations that level is surprisingly high and at least tax goes towards making the country a better place, rather than just filling the pockets of FuturesBetting.
All the best,
DBFM.
