Trump Presidency and the Consequences

Have you read "The Plot Against America" by Phhilp Roth?

He could understand this happening in a democracy. Hitler was a great orator and opportunist. He knew how to incite people who were, aleady, very discontented.

Germany had it much worse, of course, in those days.

No, I haven't. But our "plot" goes back two hundred years. We have always disagreed on what America is supposed to be. This came to a head once, in 1860. Now we're going through it again. And we're not alone.
 
For those who are interested:

WASHINGTON (AP) — Donald Trump the presidential candidate made no secret of his desire to crack down on illegal immigration, but once elected, he repeatedly offered varying interpretations of just how tough he would be in the White House.

Now a pair of enforcement memos from Homeland Security Secretary John Kelly lay bare exactly what the Trump administration plans to do and how many of the estimated 11 million immigrants living in the United States illegally will be targeted for deportation. The short answer: a lot.

A look at some of what the policy memos say the government will do.

___

SEND IMMIGRANTS WHO HAVE CROSSED THE BORDER ILLEGALLY TO MEXICO — EVEN IF THEY'RE NOT MEXICAN

A border security memo calls for the use of a long-standing but obscure U.S. law to send some immigrants who have crossed the border illegally back to Mexico even if they are from other countries. The memo and the law it cites don't include details on how or if the U.S. can force the Mexican government to allow foreigners to wait in that country while U.S. officials decide their fate. Historically, the U.S. has jailed and tried to deport foreigners from countries other than Mexico, while Mexican nationals could be easily and quickly sent back over the border. The proposal is likely to come up in discussions this week in Mexico between Kelly, Secretary of State Rex Tillerson and the Mexican government.

___

UNACCOMPANIED CHILDREN

One of Kelly's memos directs the Homeland Security Department to stop providing some legal protections to child immigrants caught crossing the border alone if they are reunited with their parents or a legal guardian inside the United States. The protections generally allow for those children to have their case decided by a judge, but the new policy would likely subject them to fast-track deportation proceedings that don't require a judge's approval. The memo also calls for the government to investigate the immigration status of those parents or guardians and any possible criminal activity connected to bringing the children into the United States.

Immigration advocates decried the effort to target parents of child immigrants who they say are largely fleeing violence in Central America. Jen Smyers, director of policy and advocacy for Church World Service's Immigration and Refugee Program, said those parents are focused on getting their children to safety.

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LOCAL POLICE ENFORCING FEDERAL LAWS

Under the Obama administration a program allowing local police and jailers to act as immigration agents was curtailed as the government narrowly focused immigration enforcement. Communities also complained that some jurisdictions were overly aggressive in enforcing federal laws.

The Secure Communities program, which uses fingerprints collected in local jails to identify immigrants in the U.S. illegally, was halted amid complaints and court rulings barring some jurisdictions from detaining immigrants for federal authorities.

Kelly's memos make clear that the government plans to restart those programs.

___

JAIL AND PROSECUTE MORE PEOPLE CROSSING THE BORDER ILLEGALLY

Kelly's directive calls for more people caught crossing the border illegally to face criminal charges. It is illegal to cross the border without permission, and the government does charge immigrants with crossing the border for the first time or coming back after being deported, a felony. But to do that on a wide scale, as was done along at least one section of the border in Texas under President George W. Bush, is costly and resource intensive.

One of the Kelly memos also calls for more jails. The government currently has the space and money to jail 34,000 people at a time. Congress will likely have to approve tens of millions of dollars for new construction and staff for the facilities or fund contracts with private prison companies.

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HIRE 15,000 BORDER AND IMMIGRATION AGENTS

The Trump administration announced plans to hire 5,000 new Border Patrol agents and 10,000 Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents. That will be a tall order. Customs and Border Protection, the parent agency of the Border Patrol, is already having trouble hiring new agents, as about 2 out of every 3 job applicants fails the agency's polygraph test. There are already about 2,000 Border Patrol vacancies, a deficit largely attributed to the polygraph fail rate.

Kelly suggested to lawmakers earlier this month that the hiring would be slow and deliberate, and the agency would not lower its standards.

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PRIORITIZE CRIMINALS AND SUSPECTED CRIMINALS

One of Kelly's memos outlines that criminal immigrants will be a top priority. But that category is broad and includes anyone convicted, arrested or suspected of a crime. That means anyone arrested for even a minor traffic violation or suspected of crossing the border illegally will now be a priority.

More than half the estimated 11 million immigrants living in the country illegally are believed to have crossed the border illegally. Immigrants who have overstayed a visa have not committed a crime but a civil violation. Still, those immigrants could also face deportation if they are arrested for just about any offense or simply encounter immigration officials looking for someone else.

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YOUNG IMMIGRANTS PROTECTED BY OBAMA

Kelly's memos do not rescind or change the Obama-era Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals, or DACA, program that protects more than 750,000 young immigrants from deportation and allows them to work.

Trump decried the effort as an "illegal amnesty" during the campaign but softened his stance on the issue after winning November's election. The administration has not said how long the program will continue, but White House spokesman Sean Spicer said Tuesday those protections will remain in place so long as those immigrants don't commit a crime or otherwise become a security threat.
 
I do think illegal immigrants should be sent back.

Same for any who get caught braking the law. If one is in another foreign country as an illegal citizen without paperwork or ID and have broken the law for whatever reason to exist and so forth, they should be sent back to whereever they've come from.

Legal migrants are different assuming they've gone through the proper channels.
 
I do think illegal immigrants should be sent back.

Same for any who get caught braking the law. If one is in another foreign country as an illegal citizen without paperwork or ID and have broken the law for whatever reason to exist and so forth, they should be sent back to whereever they've come from.

Legal migrants are different assuming they've gone through the proper channels.

Absolutes don't work in this regard because of (a) what America stands for (or at least stood for once upon a time), and (b) what the immigrants are escaping.
 
If the immigrants break our laws (aide from being illegal if that's the case), what difference does it make what they were escaping from? If you can't respect our country then you have to go. No country should be a doormat where outsiders get there and feel free to do as they please.

As far as what the USA stands for...The constitution doesn't say this country has to commit suicide by accepting terrorist refugees. Proper vetting is needed, no matter the inconvenience.

Peter
 
If the immigrants break our laws (aide from being illegal if that's the case), what difference does it make what they were escaping from? If you can't respect our country then you have to go. No country should be a doormat where outsiders get there and feel free to do as they please.

As far as what the USA stands for...The constitution doesn't say this country has to commit suicide by accepting terrorist refugees. Proper vetting is needed, no matter the inconvenience.

Peter


First paragraph is cool but that second paragraph is OT imo.

I feel all these terrorist organisation is the mess of the US and UK. Bomb the sh1t out of Libya, Iraq and destabilise Syria and then cry wolf.

Not to mention 9/11 by so called Al-Qaida terrorists it self a creation of the USA.

Or Iran's nuclear program - encouraged and created by USA when Shah was in control.

So many allies turning to enemies the US really should consider her foreign policy to look for answers on why it is loathed so much as it is loved.


Even aid agencies can't go into Libya now because it is not safe. There we really do have a refugee problem and not one of migrants. One should distinguish between the two.

Suggesting all muslims from these 7 banned countries are potential terrorist is just Cowboy speak demonstrating ones lack of awareness on global issues.

US could pull all her citizens, embassy and consulate out of those countries if it wanted to so just surprised what they are still doing there?

Finally, it was always primary objective of Al-Qaida to kick US troops out of muslim territories so maybe it is a solution. Send all muslims back and US can equally leave those countries starting with civilians and then troops.

Seems fair to me. Russia or China would only be happy to step in to US shoes and probably do a damn site better job of achieving peace and harmony raising global economic growth in the process.


I reckon this is in the pipeline and with a small time lag international relations usually end up being reciprocal. :whistling
 
Gonna be a lot of new jobs created clearing the country of illegals and of the jobs they vacate.

Win Win for the US.
 
The Long List of Murders Committed by White Extremists Since the Oklahoma City Bombing

How many fatal terror attacks have refugees carried out in the US? None

No person accepted to the United States as a refugee, Syrian or otherwise, has been implicated in a major fatal terrorist attack since the Refugee Act of 1980 set up systematic procedures for accepting refugees into the United States, according to an analysis of terrorism immigration risks by the Cato Institute.

Before 1980, three refugees had successfully carried out terrorist attacks; all three were Cuban refugees, and a total of three people were killed.


Domestic terrorism in the United States

Domestic terrorism in the United States consists of incidents confirmed as terrorist acts. These attacks are considered domestic because they were carried out by U.S. citizens or U.S. permanent residents.

5 Notable domestic terrorist attacks
5.1 The Mountain Meadows Massacre
5.2 Los Angeles Times bombing
5.3 Wall Street bombing
5.4 Burning of Black Wall Street
5.5 Unabomber attacks
5.6 Attacks by the Jewish Defense League
5.7 Oklahoma City bombing
5.8 Centennial Olympic Park bombing
5.9 Wisconsin Sikh temple shooting
5.10 Boston Marathon bombing
5.11 Charleston Church Shooting
5.12 San Bernardino shooting
5.13 Orlando nightclub shooting​
 
They might, when pay starts rising.
Cut off supply of cheap labour. Coupled with a cull of govt programmes.

Repubs, however, are against rising wages. And government spending. And the base has no interest in harvesting grapes or washing dishes or picking up trash.
 
Local Democratic parties are confronting a problem in the Trump era that is as confounding as it is unexpected: space.

All across the country, party meetings that had once been sleepy affairs, dominated by Robert’s Rules of Order and a handful of graying activists, have become standing room only. The overflowing crowds have sent stunned party regulars scrambling to find new venues, while the surge in interest, and the coinciding fundraising boost, is enabling local chapters to hire staff and build infrastructure in previously unthinkable ways. On the national level, Democratic politicians have been rushing to respond to the sudden outpouring.

“I’m as busy this year as I was at any time last year in the heat of a huge election,” said Mark Fraley, chairman of the Monroe County Democratic Party in Indiana.

Fraley said he received 65 emails in a single weekend from people requesting to become precinct chairs, a thankless job that normally requires begging and pleading to get someone to fill. The county party has restructured and added five deputy chairs to channel all the energy, and created six new committees.

“What’s very different is that it’s made the party younger. Young people never really wanted to have as much of a meaningful part in the Democratic Party infrastructure. Now that doesn’t seem true anymore,” he said.

The resistance to President Donald Trump has taken a variety of forms, all of them well chronicled by the media. The Women’s March, which saw some 5 million people take to the streets in a single day, helped fuel the growth of Indivisible chapters around the country, and has itself continued organizing meetings and protests since. The groups Swing Left, Flippable and The Sister District Project are routing people to swing districts where they can be most effective, and groups are forming to challenge Democrats in primaries. Amid it all, observers and participants alike have wondered what the name is for this nascent movement. The Resistance? The Opposition?

But if the swelling ranks of county-level meetings are an indication of things to come, the grassroots movement underway already has a name. It’s called the Democratic Party.

--Ryan Grim , Amanda Terkel
 
Outdoor recreation is a big business in the state of Utah, which is blessed with some of the most scenic natural areas, including ski resorts, canyons, forests and deserts. According to the state government’s website, “In Utah alone, outdoor recreation contributes more than $12B to the economy, employs more than 122,000 people and is the primary driver behind the tourism industry.”

This is such a big deal for Utah that in 2013 Republican Gov. Gary Herbert created an official state office for outdoor recreation, which gives grants to outdoor recreation infrastructure projects and youth programs around the state.

Despite all this, the outdoor recreation industry is in full revolt against the state. In a shocking move, Outdoor Retailer, a twice-yearly trade show that pumps an estimated $45 million a year into the state’s economy, has announced plans to move from Salt Lake City, which has hosted the convention for the past 20 years. Organizers of the convention, which has attracted as many as 40,000 people in the past, are currently garnering bids from other cities.

Outdoor Retailer’s organizers don’t want to leave Utah. The Beehive State is a natural home for a trade featuring the latest in sports gear and equipment. But organizers feel like they have no choice because Utah’s political leaders keep escalating their war against the very public lands that the outdoor industry needs in order to sell hiking boots, skis and kayaks.

“Utah is kind of ground zero for a lot of these bad ideas,” explained Tania Lown-Hecht, communications director for the Outdoor Alliance, over the phone. Her organization is a nonprofit that organizes sports enthusiasts for the goal of protecting public lands.

“Utah’s state government and their congressional delegation have had some pretty extreme positions on public lands,” she added. “And public lands are the foundation of the outdoor recreation industry.” (more)

--Amanda Marcotte
 
Repubs, however, are against rising wages. And government spending. And the base has no interest in harvesting grapes or washing dishes or picking up trash.

Same problem here in the UK.

The expectation is as things get much worse, desparation will lead local habitants to review their plight.

Cut social benefits and see how they respond to hunger and starvation.


On TV I see some of these people on benefit and their houses look so well furnished with 42" screens and sky and the lot. Shocking. I know it's not the same in USA but maybe it'll work out.

Question is how many of them will it take to starve to death before lazy sods get off their ****.

On another note, I do feel it will increase domestic and child abuse, alcoholism and gun violance. They'll typically turn on the weak and vulnerable once migrants are out of the picture. :(
 
Same problem here in the UK.

The expectation is as things get much worse, desparation will lead local habitants to review their plight.

Cut social benefits and see how they respond to hunger and starvation.

That will depend on your society.

On TV I see some of these people on benefit and their houses look so well furnished with 42" screens and sky and the lot. Shocking. I know it's not the same in USA but maybe it'll work out.

It's the same, but what the holies don't understand is that most of this stuff is rented. Purchase is not a factor. But then this is not unlike the apparently rich who live in big houses and drive fancy cars and are in debt up to their nipples.

Question is how many of them will it take to starve to death before lazy sods get off their ****.

That depends in large part on why they're not working, if that is the case.
 
(USNews) The stock market is in the midst of a "Trump rally," and the president wants to make sure everyone knows about it.

"A great spirit of optimism is sweeping and you see it. It's sweeping all across the country. Look at what's happening to the stock market," Donald Trump said during his Saturday campaign rally in Florida. "Stock market hits new high with longest winning streak in decades. Great level of confidence and optimism - even before tax plan rollout," he tweeted a few days earlier.

Stocks have indeed been on the rise since Trump took office. The Dow Jones and S&P 500 have both set new records, sending cable TV's financial pundits into a Trump-induced tizzy. It's been the best opening month in terms of market increase for a new president since the 1960s.

But should the average American really be psyched about the upward surge or take the rally as a sign of Trump's expert economic stewardship?

Nope. (more)
 
Obviously, wall sreet thinks President Trump is doing something right. Great for those with 401k plans or anyone investing in the stock market (except shorters).

Peter
 
Geeze guys it could have been worse, you could have had Hillary for President now that is pure evil in a bottle. :devilish:
 
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