Trump Presidency and the Consequences

[counter_violent]

It's about time we had some good news for a change. Yesterday, a British judge refused to extradite, to the US, journalist Julian Assange who exposed war crimes by US forces in Afghanistan & Iraq. Today, we discover that Nicola Sturgeon wont allow Trump to visit Scotland during the Joe Biden inauguration incarceration period 🤣 .

Corrected that for ya alan.

 

[counter_violent]

 

[counter_violent]

 

[counter_violent]

 

[alan5616]

CV; can't you surrender gracefully? You've had a good run

 

[alan5616]

Yesterday's events in Washington DC were a shameful demonstration of what Trump's fascist supporters represent.

 

[barjon]

So Mitch McConnell, the REPUBLICAN Senate leader, stated clearly that the presidential election had not been stolen and that it had not even been that close.

Vice President Pence refuses to follow Trump‘s wishes since he is duty bound to respect the Constitution.

Sixty Courts found that there was no fraud, as did every one of the state audits carried out.

Trump proclaims that he had a landslide victory stripped away from him and urges his supporters to march on the Capitol. As Alan says, shameful. What a legacy he leaves behind him - no one will remember the good things he achieved.

 

[MasterOfCoin]

Simply ignoring, dismissing, and rejecting the heartfelt concerns of tens of millions of voters that think there was massive fraud perpetrated during the election count is not going to make the issue go away.

Ultimately, those concerns need to be properly, publicly and transparently addressed or you can forget about any remaining claim of America being a beacon of democracy. It clearly, starkly, is not.

 

[barjon]

Simply ignoring, dismissing, and rejecting the heartfelt concerns of tens of millions of voters that think there was massive fraud perpetrated during the election count is not going to make the issue go away.

Ultimately, those concerns need to be properly, publicly and transparently addressed or you can forget about any remaining claim of America being a beacon of democracy. It clearly, starkly, is not.

I dare say those millions (if millions there are) only think there was massive fraud because their President told them so *. No-one else has found any and you can’t have had it more properly addressed than in the Courts.

* and the wacky internet brigade.

 

[MasterOfCoin]

I dare say those millions (if millions there are) only think there was massive fraud because their President told them so. No-one else has found any and you can’t have had it more properly addressed than in the Courts.

Frankly, that's irrelevant.

Why they think it matters not one jot. That they believe it is a problem which won't go away simply because you think they shouldn't or were misled.

The courts haven't addressed anything- they haven't admitted any applications to be considered in court, or examined any of the evidence that is being presented.

Shouting 'there's no evidence' when millions of people have seen that evidence for themselves really isn't helping.

 

[Atilla]

Yo CV...

Is this you in the WH?

 

[timsk]

Yo CV...

Is this you in the WH?

No that's not him At'. c_v's not that handsome or as well dressed!

 

[timsk]

Shouting 'there's no evidence' when millions of people have seen that evidence for themselves really isn't helping.

. . . And, if the polls are to be believed (yeah, I know they're not but bear with me), some 30% of democrats think the man and party they voted for stole the election.

The reporting of the U.S. election - or lack thereof - by MSM is truly shocking; made all the worse by claiming there was no fraud while refusing even to look at the evidence submitted, while simultaneously condeming the clampdown by Hong Kong authorities on pro-democracy activists and demonstrators. Just to be clear, in no way do I condone the violence and actions of Trump's supporters - which were shocking, unacceptable and counterproductive. Moreover, it was a grave tactical error which has played straight into the hands of Trump's critics - as we're witnessing everywhere, including here on this thread.
Tim.

 

[barjon]

. . . And, if the polls are to be believed (yeah, I know they're not but bear with me), some 30% of democrats think the man and party they voted for stole the election.

The reporting of the U.S. election - or lack thereof - by MSM is truly shocking; made all the worse by claiming there was no fraud while refusing even to look at the evidence submitted, while simultaneously condeming the clampdown by Hong Kong authorities on pro-democracy activists and demonstrators. Just to be clear, in no way do I condone the violence and actions of Trump's supporters - which were shocking, unacceptable and counterproductive. Moreover, it was a grave tactical error which has played straight into the hands of Trump's critics - as we're witnessing everywhere, including here on this thread.
Tim.

In denial, then, Tim? The actual result from the Electoral College was 306 to 232

I suppose Mitch McConnell, the REPUBLICAN Senate leader must be corrupt, then
And the Vice-President.
And all judges in the sixty Courts who examined Trump’s allegations.
And all the audit teams who audited the results.
And all the officials who oversaw the election .
And all the Electoral delegates.
And all the senators and congressmen who supported the vote.
And all the Governors who declared their result correct.

Instead of believing these people you appear to rely on what you’ve read and seen on the internet - that home of total truth - and unsubstantiated “witness” accounts. Everyone to their own I suppose.

 

[David Knight]

In denial, then, Tim? The actual result from the Electoral College was 306 to 232

I suppose Mitch McConnell, the REPUBLICAN Senate leader must be corrupt, then
And the Vice-President.
And all judges in the sixty Courts who examined Trump’s allegations.
And all the audit teams who audited the results.
And all the officials who oversaw the election .
And all the Electoral delegates.
And all the senators and congressmen who supported the vote.
And all the Governors who declared their result correct.

Instead of believing these people you appear to rely on what you’ve read and seen on the internet - that home of total truth - and unsubstantiated “witness” accounts. Everyone to their own I suppose.

The problem is Jon , if Biden won fair and square, some people seem to have made damn sure an electoral fraud appeared to take place in the most blatant, obvious and easily discovered way possible. And others have pursued this matter to a potentially personal career ending disaster. 1% puppets rarely willingly self implode.

Another problem is, I'm forced to conclude that the irrational hatred of Trump was enough for people, in record numbers, to decide that what America needs now, is a paedophile, criminal, racist, dementia ridden old man for a President. Even while some of his own supporters cry foul- when have we ever seen that happen?!

I'm not sure I can make all these things stick together in a simple logical explanation right now...

 

[Atilla]

 

[Atilla]

 

[timsk]

Instead of believing these people you appear to rely on what you’ve read and seen on the internet - that home of total truth - and unsubstantiated “witness” accounts. Everyone to their own I suppose.

Jon,
You're doing that thing again - you know - that thing whereby you don't read what I've written and respond to what you think I said and what you think I believe rather than the actual comments made. Your post is a complete non-sequitur.

I'm not disputing any of your "And the . . ." comments but the point is that you seem determined to ignore the millions - yes millions - of U.S. citizens, including 30% of those who voted for Biden, who believe rightly or wrongly that the election was stolen. If Biden and the democrats did everything above board then they have nothing to fear from a thorough investigation. So why aren't they agreeing to one? Indeed, why aren't they demanding one? If it's true (and please note that I accept completely that it may be), then it'll be easy to prove. If they're found to be clean as a whistle, then support for Trump and the Republicans will evaporate overnight. And that would be fine by me. It could all but kill off the party and take generations for it to recover. Instead, continually spouting 'there's no evidence of election fraud' simply isn't good enough; it does nothing to address the concerns of the millions who believe otherwise. For reasons that ought to be self evident, the situation as it stands can only go from bad to worse. And when it does, you'll likely blame those nasty anti-democratic Trump supporters who can't accept the election result. When, in reality, the real blame lies with all those who failed to investigate the allegations made. Only you don't won't to hear about that because it challenges the mainstream narrative of 'orange man bad' - and that he has to go at whatever cost.

As I've said before, I respect Alan's position on this in that his loathing of Trump is so great that he's prepared to see democracy 'suspended' in order to get shot of him. I don't agree with it, I think it's a crazy position, but at least it has some logic and integrity to it. I suggest that you either follow suit or do what c_v, MOC. David, I and others have done which is to undertake due diligence and investigate for yourself the allegations of fraud seriously and do so with an open mind.
Tim.

 

[barjon]

Jon,
You're doing that thing again - you know - that thing whereby you don't read what I've written and respond to what you think I said and what you think I believe rather than the actual comments made. Your post is a complete non-sequitur.

I'm not disputing any of your "And the . . ." comments but the point is that you seem determined to ignore the millions - yes millions - of U.S. citizens, including 30% of those who voted for Biden, who believe rightly or wrongly that the election was stolen. If Biden and the democrats did everything above board then they have nothing to fear from a thorough investigation. So why aren't they agreeing to one? Indeed, why aren't they demanding one? If it's true (and please note that I accept completely that it may be), then it'll be easy to prove. If they're found to be clean as a whistle, then support for Trump and the Republicans will evaporate overnight. And that would be fine by me. It could all but kill off the party and take generations for it to recover. Instead, continually spouting 'there's no evidence of election fraud' simply isn't good enough; it does nothing to address the concerns of the millions who believe otherwise. For reasons that ought to be self evident, the situation as it stands can only go from bad to worse. And when it does, you'll likely blame those nasty anti-democratic Trump supporters who can't accept the election result. When, in reality, the real blame lies with all those who failed to investigate the allegations made. Only you don't won't to hear about that because it challenges the mainstream narrative of 'orange man bad' - and that he has to go at whatever cost.

As I've said before, I respect Alan's position on this in that his loathing of Trump is so great that he's prepared to see democracy 'suspended' in order to get shot of him. I don't agree with it, I think it's a crazy position, but at least it has some logic and integrity to it. I suggest that you either follow suit or do what c_v, MOC. David, I and others have done which is to undertake due diligence and investigate for yourself the allegations of fraud seriously and do so with an open mind.
Tim.

Well, Tim, I was only going by your earlier statements of how it was clear that there had been massive fraud. The ANDs I detailed don’t share your conviction. Trump has tried his hardest to prove there was fraud and has come up with nothing bar his statements that there was. Why should there be further investigation just because millions believe his lies (if indeed anything like that number do) and the rabid outpourings of sensationalist internet sites.
Surely if there had been real evidence don’t you think Trump’s investigators would have moved heaven and earth to uncover it and would have presented it to the Courts? They couldn’t and didn’t - so I guess you could conclude that there was nothing to find.

 

[MasterOfCoin]

In denial, then, Tim? The actual result from the Electoral College was 306 to 232

I suppose Mitch McConnell, the REPUBLICAN Senate leader must be corrupt, then
And the Vice-President.
And all judges in the sixty Courts who examined Trump’s allegations.
And all the audit teams who audited the results.
And all the officials who oversaw the election .
And all the Electoral delegates.
And all the senators and congressmen who supported the vote.
And all the Governors who declared their result correct.

Instead of believing these people you appear to rely on what you’ve read and seen on the internet - that home of total truth - and unsubstantiated “witness” accounts. Everyone to their own I suppose.

......

I suppose Mitch McConnell, the REPUBLICAN Senate leader must be corrupt, then ........
And the Vice-President. Who has spoken of his concerns and recognized those of voters, while stopping short of outright endorsing them.
And all judges in the sixty Courts who examined Trump’s allegations. No such examinations have taken place- they have simply prevented the allegations from being examined, which is not at all the same thing.
And all the audit teams who audited the results. Audit teams and annalists using established analysis tools have found numerous serious irregularities in the results. Many of which have been detailed in this thread with verifiable sources referenced.
And all the officials who oversaw the election . Like, perhaps, the officials that cleared all witnesses from ballot counting facilities under false pretext of an emergency and then proceeded to process thousands of ballots produced out of suitcases [not ballot boxes, suitcases] in blatant violation of election laws while there were no monitors on the premises. Time-stamped CCTV security camera video of all this was made available by the independent security personel responsible for the premises that had been hired for the counting to take place in.
And all the Electoral delegates. Only Electoral Delegates as appointed by the legislature in each State have any constitutional authority. Circumventing and frustrating the Constitution does not others Electoral Delegates make.
And all the senators and congressmen who supported the vote. Ignoring the Constitution.
And all the Governors who declared their result correct. Whilst refusing any and all requests to have those results independently verified.

---

Assertions from quoted post have been addressed and expanded on with comments added in italics.

It may well be that some or even all allegations of nefarious wrongdoing can be refuted when properly examined with equally compelling evidence to the contrary, BUT.

Since absolutely nothing has been done to properly investigate and examine any of the above by the US Supreme Court, which, after all, is the only Court with the Authority to rule on Constitutional and therefore Electoral matters in relation to the Law and how the procedures carefully specified in the Constitution should be applied, then all of these things remain very much unresolved.

They won't go away simply because a greater part of the establishment would prefer it so, however insistently.

This will rumble on for years.