Trading with point and figure

[Dentalfloss]

6015-6025..if yu can get it

 

[gismeu]

View attachment 272729

Gizmo...That is a p/f chart

Yeah, thanks!
Will be back on Monday, have a great weekend everyone,

gis

 

[gismeu]

By the way, at stockcharts.com
you can get PnF charts for free on daily and weekly timeframe.

Is anyone here using these charts for day trading.
Or better, does a PnF chart with a 15 min timeframe give useful signals for day traders?
Thanks, gis

 

[gismeu]

And one more thing, at www.stockcharts.com they give you the option of method of ‘Traditional’ as well as ‘ATR’. Which one works better or are there even more options?

Thanks gis

 

[cantagril]

By the way, at stockcharts.com
you can get PnF charts for free on daily and weekly timeframe.

Is anyone here using these charts for day trading.
Or better, does a PnF chart with a 15 min timeframe give useful signals for day traders?
Thanks, gis

The TF question is a kind of red herring as p&f is independent of time and on some (but not all)applications the period merely determines how much data i.e the number of columns, can be included on the charts. As an example, see the attached charts below from a Finsa platform - the first is 15mins and the 2nd is 3mins. You'll see that they're basically identical.


15 mins


3 mins

 

[cantagril]

Is anyone here using these charts for day trading.
Or better, does a PnF chart with a 15 min timeframe give useful signals for day traders?
Thanks, gis

As to whether it can be used for daytrading: yes, absolutely. The principles that you would apply for multi TF analysis apply equally to p&f, see the exchange between Dentist and myself from a couple of days ago:

...again, rather what I was hoping. I did post a couple of Cac charts earlier on but they seem to have disappeared - no doubt the Monday morning fat-finger again. Here's the 2.5 x 3 one again.View attachment 272432

you need to get in closer on that downmove
1 min
1 pt by 3 rev

So what matters is the degree of focus, or box size and the "granularity" or reversal.

 

[cantagril]

Gizmo: here attached is a Fineco p&f chart - 5 mins - .5 x 2.

If you look at the bottom of the image you'll see a slider with the figure "200" inside the red oval. As is the case with a number of p&f charts, the functionality was a bolt-on to another format which IS time dependent but when applied to p&f just complicates the matter.

In the case of the TSLA chart you'll see that it's obvious that the "200" doesn't refer to the number of columns (about 110 odd) or the number of periods 200 x 5mins being about 16 hours rather than than the nearly 3 days data presented.

 

[gismeu]

Hello Cantagril,

I do appreciate all the time you put into helping me, really great!!!

I looked at your 15 min and 3 min chart and yes, they look quite similar, but wouldn't you expect that a daily chart looks quite
different than a 15 min chart? I say this from the viewpoint that when using a 15 min chart the box seize will automatically be smaller than compared to a daily chart. So there should be more trendchanges, of shorter duration obviously, but that is what you might want for day trading or shoorter term trading.

Thanks, gis

 

[cantagril]

I do appreciate all the time you put into helping me, really great!!!

I looked at your 15 min and 3 min chart and yes, they look quite similar, but wouldn't you expect that a daily chart looks quite
different than a 15 min chart? I say this from the viewpoint that when using a 15 min chart the box seize will automatically be smaller than compared to a daily chart. So there should be more trendchanges, of shorter duration obviously, but that is what you might want for day trading or shoorter term trading.

Thanks, gis

No wuckers

As to yr question: "wouldn't you expect that a daily chart looks quite different than a 15 min chart?" The answer is a simple yes and no. Look again at the TSLA chart and you'll see that next to the "5 mins" on the supposed TF panel it also says"max depth" - this is the way the data is "presented" only. The Box Size in the next door panel is independant of the TF one but because of the legacy issues I've already mentioned, Fineco has chosen to provide "default" Box Sizes when you select a TF from the pulldown menu. In the case of the above chart it's something strange like 1.785, being presumably a calculation on some time dependant basis. ( see next post for follow up)

Different applications behave in different ways but the fundamental thing to get straight is that unlike, say, Bar or Candle charts the time is for display purposes only and whilst of course you can zoom your chart (see attached Finsa chart below) to have more less data and therefore a denser or sparser plot, the Box Size and Reversal remain exactly the same. I'm aware that some web platforms, including the Finsa ones, automatically change time frames on non-p&f charts when you zoom in or out....which really pisses me off but I live with it because I get real time p&f with any input I choose, unlike yr pals at Stock Charts.
15 mins 1 min

 

[cantagril]

Gizmo:

At the risk of confusing things further, I think I should perhaps mention that if you were to use something like BEB with MT4 historical data, you would be presented with a choice of TFs at the MT4 level and BEB would use CSV formatted data based on that TF. If you choose say 1 hour data then of course you would have no record of faster and presumably also smaller price moves so reducing the size of yr boxes in p&f would have no effect as the data isn't there in the first place.

I do think that if you want to get yr head round p&f it would be worth at least going through some of the stuff here on T2W, e.g:

Technical Analysis - Point and Figure Charting: Part 1 – The Basics

Point and Figure (P&F) charting has been around for well over a century, occupying a bit of a niche. It tends to be an area that some get quite heavily into, while a fair percentage of the non-users look at it now and again and regard it as something they'd quite like to get the hang of but...

www.trade2win.com

Technical Analysis - Point and Figure Charting: Part 2 – The Bits That Aren’t As Basic

[Editor's note: This article was originally written on the 30th Dec, 2005] Okay, so make your own title up! In Part 1 I set out the basic ideas of P&F charting. For anyone who would like to read more on the subject there’s an absolute plethora of material out there – one book I’d thoroughly...

www.trade2win.com

 

[gismeu]

Hi cantagril,

we are getting close, I think. I did a PnF chart with the settings of 5 min and 0.13 box seize and that is what I am after for intra-day trading, I believe. If it will work, I don't know yet, but it looks like there are some support and resistance points that one could use. What do you think? Thanks, gis

Thanks, gis

 

[Dentalfloss]

Mornin folks ☕ ☕ ☕ ☕ ☕ 🤪🤪🤪🤪🤓🤓🤓😍😎😎🤩💋💋😻😻🥰🥰🥰

 

[Dentalfloss]

Oil in a supp area

 

[Dentalfloss]

Dax in supp

 

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goin either way

 

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Dow

 

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LB Weekly (Jan 12)


by admin on January 12, 2020
in Charts/Essays/Reports



2 Comments





2020 has gotten off to a solid start.
In its first full week of trading, the S&P 500 posted a gain 3/5 days and hit a new all-time high three consecutive days to end the week. Mega caps continued to lead – Apple, Microsoft, Google and Facebook all closed at new highs. And this week software names joined – ZM, OKTA, RNG, TWLO, ZEN, AYX, AVLR, COUP and many others did great.
Quant studies are starting to point to 2020 being a good year. Since 1950, when the first 5 days of the year are positive, the market has posted a gain 36/45 times (80%), with an average/median gain of 13.6%/13.6%. This is only slightly better than “all years,” so don’t get too excited. But when the S&P gains more than 0.65% in the first five days, as it did this year, the index posts a full year gain 31/35 times (89%), with an average/median gain of 17.2%/20.9%. Much more encouraging.
These types of stats don’t guarantee anything, but they do provide a solid backdrop. I believe the biggest loss in the market is cash sitting on the sideline. Negative headlines produce enough doubt to keep traders and investors under-exposed, and when the market runs up like it has the last three months, gains are made, but they’re much smaller than they should have been. A key to trading is to fully take advantage of opportunities. If knowing that over the last 70 years when the market was up 0.65% the first five days of January produced a 89% win rate for the year, perhaps traders and investors wouldn’t be under-invested. Anything can happen in any given year, and we of course don’t know what the path the market will travel, but if you can stomach an occasional down year, the up years will more than make up the difference.
We enter 2020 with the trend being up, leaders leading, and very supportive internals. This by itself keeps us in the bulls’ camp, only interested in the long side. Add that this is an election year – a traditionally positive year – and historical studies are starting to hint at further gains, we have no choice but to be optimistic looking forward.
Again, we don’t know what path the market will travel. And it’s entirely possible this is one of the 11% of the years that doesn’t do well after posting a 0.65% gain. But if you want to make money, you have to take a risk. You have to do something. The “wall of worry” operates to keep people on the sidelines. That’s its job. That’s its role. It keeps people at bay, so acute traders like us can establish positions within trends. And when FOMO (fear of missing out) kicks in, and that sideline money is put to work, our positions get juiced.
You can be long, short or on the sidelines…and of course there’s some gray area. I choose to be long. Individual trades must be managed wisely because any stock can do anything while the market steadily trends up. But being long is the way to go. Be willing to take a risk to expose yourself to the upside while managing the downside. Nothing works all the time, but if operate like this and are willing to accept a few losses, you’ll do great over time.
Again, negative news operates to keep traders and investors on the sidelines. That’s its role. Recognize the deception and don’t let it affect you. The charts are your best source of reliable information. I trust them more than I trust anything else.
Let’s get to charts and see if there are any changes.
Indexes
The S&P 500 & Russell 2000 Weeklies (via SPY & IWM): The S&P posted a solid gain for the week. The Russell, due to selling Thursday and Friday, closed down slightly and in the middle of its weekly range. These two charts would suggest the large caps are doing much better than the small caps, but this isn’t the entire story. Measured of the Dec 2018 bottom, the S&P is up 38% while the Russell is up 30%. That’s not a huge difference. The reason the S&P is well into new high territory and the Russell still hasn’t taken out its 2018 high is because the Russell fell so much more in Q4 2018. Without that the Russell would also be at an all-time high. Perhaps I’m, searching too hard. This is just my way of saying the situation isn’t as drastic as it seems. But I’d still like the see some improvement from the small caps. I’d like to see them lead some. Under performing is not a good backdrop.

 

[Dentalfloss]