Trader-Dante trader training for spread betting is he any good? Proof not words!

[the hare]

"All the world's a stage. And all the men and women merely players." is an example of a famous metaphor. William Shakespeare is directly comparing the world to a stage, with the people playing " roles" as they go about their daily lives. A comparable analogy would be "Players are to stage as figure skaters are to ice rink."

I just knew someone would be along to point out the difference between a metaphor and an analogy

Who says t2w isn't educational

 

[wackypete2]

I call this an analaphor:
This thread is to ***** as all t2w's a stage.

Peter

 

[0007]

In all walks of life training is essential to get novices started and where necessary, keep accomplished practitioners within accepted guidelines. However, those who remain at this level may well be very competent and look "successful" to lesser experts but unless they are mentally adventurous, resourceful and creative they will never be truly outstanding and the probability is that they won't make futher progress.

Just look at the outstanding successes in any field -- they are almost always people who think for themselves, don't necessarily follow the herd and have a clear vision of what they are about. As has been said previously, you can teach physics, history, golf but that alone will not produce a Physicist, Historian or Golfer. Trainers have their role -- especially in the psychological department but in the end it comes down to the individual.

As for Trader Dante -- I remember following his thread with interest and looking at his system even though it wasn't my style. You can learn useful things from many of these trainers (both in what to do and what not to do) but after going through the novice stage you definitely have to have your own mind and take your own decisions -- otherwise you will never progress.

 

[wackypete2]

P.S you look like you are going to jump on that Parrot - poor little birdy.

The parrot is my mentor. I don't even have to pay her but she asks for crackers often.

Peter

 

[wallstreetwarrior87]

toastie

So we are not very far apart after all

Sticking with golf, take putting:

1. I can show how the club needs to strike the ball for a pure stroke that sets the ball off in the desired direction - I do not need the skill to do it myself.

2. The pro can demonstrate proven (by him) techniques to help that happening consistently - he needs the experience and skill to do that.

But this is only a small part of it

There is also the crucial questions of how much the slope of the green is going to cause the ball to deviate and how hard the ball needs to be hit to go the desired distance. These are questions of judgement and feel which cannot be taught and which develop from personal experience and (for most) many hours of practice.

All much like trading maybe.

Totally agree Barjon. I see trading as a sport. To reach the top (or to be a high level player) you need all of the above, plus:

Natural talent - to be able to sense, feel what is happening. To be able to detect change, all very subtle. Honestly, very few can do it. The top performers need to be able to cope with multiple information flows, this is why sport and trading are so similar.

NO ONE can teach someone to go beyond the mechanics, that is up to the individual, they must posses the correct attributes, if not they will spend all their lives on the putting green dreaming of winning the Masters!

As there are no barriers to entry into this business, the failure rate is so high due to the disrespect to the work and preparation needed, but at the same time the hope will remain until there is no money left in the pot to play with.

People just need to be honest with themselves. This is the hardest part.

IMHO

 

[trendie]

Surely, all these things hinge around having a valid and nett positive methodology.
Irrespective of the tutor.
It has been mentioned, but the emphasis is so often on the tutor, the abilities of the student to learn usually are overlooked.

You can have a good teacher or a bad teacher.
You can have a good student or a bad student.

Combos:
Bad tutor / bad student = the perfect storm for bitching from both sides.
Bad tutor / good student = with the best of intentions, this is doomed, unless the student is gifted, mature, and persistent. (and eventually finds a good tutor)
Good tutor / bad student = the sort of student who expects too much, and really wants it all on a plate. And complains when he doesnt get it. And because the student is at fault, never will.
Good tutor / good student = pretty rare.

Even this doesnt address the aspect of realistic expectations.
There have been the usual stuff about Schumacher, Tiger Woods, etc.
Get real!!
EVEN IF Tiger Woods became a mentor, and showed you his "statements", ie, trophy hauls, bank balance, etc, you STILL wont get anywhere near his expertise or returns. Nor Schumachers.
Reality is, the best you can expect is become professional, and earn an income from it.
If you want to get into F1 racing, Schuie can get teach you to drive well enough to get a job as a test driver, or maybe a starting job in one of the lesser teams, but NOT Ferrari or Redbull, or whatever.
That bit requires genuine, innate, talent, which cannot be taught.

If I recall, education comes from the latin "educare", to bring out, to tease out.
You need to have some spark of intelligence or talent which needs to be brought out in the first place.

EDIT: to avoid boring you further, I wont address the combos of good system/bad system, coupled with good tutor / bad tutor. You need a good system with a good tutor.
A good system with a bad tutor is doomed.
A bad system with a good tutor is pretty scammy.
A bad system with a bad tutor is just LULZ.

 

[the hare]

Surely, all these things hinge around having a valid and nett positive methodology.

If a vendor had that, they'd be extremely vocal about it

But what do you see ? Ledgendary vendors living on a council estate !, ledgendary vendors trading 250 dollar accounts !

It's quality lulz.

Punters don't want a valid nett positive methodology, they want something that doesn't actually exist

 

[tar]

But what do you see ? Ledgendary vendors living on a council estate !

which one ? :cheesy:

 

[wallstreetwarrior87]

If someone is determined to find a coach or mentor, then they need to seek someone who will encourage them to find their OWN way, be dependent on NO ONE, ask their OWN questions, and find their OWN answers. Someone who creates a burning fire of desire to succeed and be the best they can be.

Watching a youngster develop is a good example. When you teach a child to ride a bike without stabilisers; Ha, your not teaching, they are learning, you are not on the bike, they are. We let them ride off in all directions, they are developing all their skills/attributes: awareness, speed, momentum, timing, fear, greed, excitement, laziness etc.

Your part is simply to offer them guidance in the form of encouragement, upto the point of pure danger, as you dont want a child to seriously hurt themselves.

Once they can peddle and steer, they no longer need you in that sense. Its up to them from now on.

Now comes to the key reason why in trading this process is flawed: MONEY.

Very few are interested in self development, most want to know how to make the dosh; show me the money!

To me this is the main reason so few succeed; the end goal is incorrect.

Remember if you are good at trading and posses all the correct attributes you will make money, this will take care of itself. Concentrate on your development and all will naturally fall into place.

Anyway back to the markets.

 

[tar]

Punters don't want a valid nett positive methodology, they want something that doesn't actually exist

So true , check zulutrade and colective2 as an example , if there is a system aggressively climbing day by day subscribers will jump in no matter what strategy is used by the vendor ( incl. martingale ) , but after the slightest drawdown they will leave him and will curse his name : "Damn this guy is going for broke." , but you cant blame them , that's life they want hot money who wants to stay in a 20% normal drawdown period waiting for the next gains to come , same applies to hot stocks like AAPL it kept creeping upstairs and investors kept buying it at the highs . However smart money and big money don't mind small annual gains like treasuries and gilts , but again they don't want drawdowns as well . So it is true they are not looking for net positive methods , but rather a cash machine with the slightest drawdown which doesn't exist , small money will embrace martingale and hot risky strategies as long as it is working , and big money will go for treasuries ( 1.6% yield ) and hot stocks ( at the highs ) .

 

[rawrschach]

Hasn't he laid eveyrhing out for free on ff? Why pay him? For a skype room?

Knowing the personality that he has I can see why he does it. Doesn't he donate his fees to charity?

 

[cablemonster]

Why doesn't someone invite him to do a free T2W webinar. The guy isnt charging a fortune so I cant see the problem with it, he is working at a london prop so at least he is a serious trader. beating someone up with a keyboard is just negative energy and wont take you anywhere

 

[the hare]

Why doesn't someone invite him to do a free T2W webinar.

The t2w anti vendor vigilantes can be a tough crowd to please if they sense fear

But seriously, should we really be encouraging vendor webinars ? Perhaps a certain contributing author to the t2w book could pop along and promote his nazi boxes, I believe there are still 89 left, and they don't cost that much so what's the harm ?

 

[gedward3]

So your point is that some skilled people cannot teach?

Doesn't mean that unskilled people can teach does it?

No i mean that when something is done repetitively thousands and thousands of times it becomes 2nd nature and you don't actually think about the steps/processes where you would have done at the beginning. They guy i trained with had moved to a higher level and his brain had forgotten the early steps as it had discarded them as they were ingrained and 2nd nature to him.

The way i imagine top traders would have a trading plan to follow but when they are at the top of their game those rules aren't even processed as they are intuitive to him/her and have been performed hundreds of thousands of times. They probably do this even without thinking about them and they become ingrained in their heads.

Intuition/Gut Feeling/Sixth Sense who knows.

Ged

 

[cablemonster]

The t2w anti vendor vigilantes can be a tough crowd to please if they sense fear

But seriously, should we really be encouraging vendor webinars ? Perhaps a certain contributing author to the t2w book could pop along and promote his nazi boxes, I believe there are still 89 left, and they don't cost that much so what's the harm ?

yes we should encourage vendor webinars. you can get a great sense of someones ability in a 1 hour seminar. if people dont like it there is a little red x box at the top right of the window that they can click. :cheesy:

If Tomathy Dante did a free 1 hour webinar about his trading I would certainly watch, if I learnt one thing in the hour I would consider that a plus. If I didnt like it I would just exit the webinar.

 

[DionysusToast]

No i mean that when something is done repetitively thousands and thousands of times it becomes 2nd nature and you don't actually think about the steps/processes where you would have done at the beginning. They guy i trained with had moved to a higher level and his brain had forgotten the early steps as it had discarded them as they were ingrained and 2nd nature to him.

The way i imagine top traders would have a trading plan to follow but when they are at the top of their game those rules aren't even processed as they are intuitive to him/her and have been performed hundreds of thousands of times. They probably do this even without thinking about them and they become ingrained in their heads.

Intuition/Gut Feeling/Sixth Sense who knows.

Ged

It's called a few things (e.g. implicit memory)and all skills are like this.

It's the rule, not the exception for any endeavour that is a skill.

 

[DionysusToast]

yes we should encourage vendor webinars. you can get a great sense of someones ability in a 1 hour seminar. if people dont like it there is a little red x box at the top right of the window that they can click. :cheesy:

If Tomathy Dante did a free 1 hour webinar about his trading I would certainly watch, if I learnt one thing in the hour I would consider that a plus. If I didnt like it I would just exit the webinar.

Most would sweat like a blind lesbian in a fish market if put on the spot with a live market.

 

[the hare]

Most would sweat like a blind lesbian in a fish market if put on the spot with a live market.

Recall for example FX Streets risible series of Mike Baghdaddy's "trading the New York session" webinars

Week after week those webinars where promoted inviting attendees to join mike as he put his firms money on the line in a live trading event. After each event, the forum promoted those events as live trading events.

Did anyone actually question the fact that NOT a single live trade had been called (without incurring a ban from the FX street moderators)

What do you think would happen if such shinnangins where promoted at the zoo ? Do you honestly think vendors would be held to account ?

Any half decent vendor could drive a coach and horses through the latency granted to them thanks to the technology used for these events.

If t2w agreed to be complicit in hosting such an event,they'd be queuing around the block to have a dabble.

It's all well and good to argue that webinars expose the truth, they don't, and that's precisely why trading vendors are so fond of them. Lets not forget 99% of the muppets attending couldn't tell their **** from their elbow.

 

[Truth Seeker]

Why doesn't someone invite him to do a free T2W webinar. The guy isnt charging a fortune so I cant see the problem with it, he is working at a london prop so at least he is a serious trader. beating someone up with a keyboard is just negative energy and wont take you anywhere

If he can produce statistics and proof of his account growth he tells all in the webinars about then I have no issues at all. And no he doesn't donate all his profits to charity, lolz. If he claims he does, I want to be able to check.

 

[cablemonster]

If he can produce statistics and proof of his account growth he tells all in the webinars about then I have no issues at all. And no he doesn't donate all his profits to charity, lolz. If he claims he does, I want to be able to check.

are you saying he trades from the left hand side of the chart, he is a real trader no.