Trade: Obama born in Kenya

[new_trader]

The Constitution is replete with "amendments", so is not set in stone. The notions of citizenship will change, since the world is more inter-connected than ever before.

The US constitution was written to limit the powers of Government and to preserve private property rights and freedom for the people. These concepts don't change with time. The Government has no assumed powers, it can only do what the constitution allows it to do. The President's oath is "I promise to preserve, defend and uphold the Constitution".

American citizens are slowly but surely losing the freedom that made the country the richest in the world and the result is they are becoming a 3rd world country.

 

[Liquid validity]

I've lived in two different countries, not a few, but still. If there is more to everything than you think you know, what is the harm in trying to discover it through analysis and intense debate? If character and intelligence is all that matters why are you promoting ignorance?

No one is bashing analysis or debate, certainly not me.
Its simply an issue of prioritising your time.
As far as Obama goes, whats the worst case outcome of this whole citizenship debate - an election...

As for birthplace, are children of U.S. service personnel born overseas
not U.S citizens?
Even if there is any truth in the Kenyan link, he has enough for U.S. citizenship.
As for nit picking in the constitution - well its out of date simple as that.
List of amendments to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

BTW, I'm not anti or pro Obama.
For me politics is just preference cycles.
Example - 70's stagflation in UK - chop and change between Labour and Conservative.
Reason - the only fix for the problems of that era were time, plain and simple.
Politicians don't have the luxury of time, so resort to short term sticky plasters,
hence the chop and change.

 

[degurube]

I've lived in two different countries, not a few, but still. If there is more to everything than you think you know, what is the harm in trying to discover it through analysis and intense debate? If character and intelligence is all that matters why are you promoting ignorance?

For one to get with the changing times is not promoting ignorance. For one to basically argue an opinion and not be open to reality is ignorance.

 

[new_trader]

For one to get with the changing times is not promoting ignorance.

What? Saying "Best to get with and profit of your edge" is basically saying you aren't interested in understanding why things are changing, just get with...whatever 'with' is. This is ignorance.

 

[new_trader]

No one is bashing analysis or debate, certainly not me.
Its simply an issue of prioritising your time.
As far as Obama goes, whats the worst case outcome of this whole citizenship debate - an election...

As for birthplace, are children of U.S. service personnel born overseas
not U.S citizens?
Even if there is any truth in the Kenyan link, he has enough for U.S. citizenship.
As for nit picking in the constitution - well its out of date simple as that.
List of amendments to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

BTW, I'm not anti or pro Obama.
For me politics is just preference cycles.
Example - 70's stagflation in UK - chop and change between Labour and Conservative.
Reason - the only fix for the problems of that era were time, plain and simple.
Politicians don't have the luxury of time, so resort to short term sticky plasters,
hence the chop and change.

The constitution is not out of date. Limiting the powers of Government never goes out of date. Why not just have a document that says "The Government can do whatever it wants"?

 

[TheBramble]

If there is more to everything than you think you know, what is the harm in trying to discover it through analysis and intense debate? If character and intelligence is all that matters why are you promoting ignorance?

There is always more to everything than you think you know.

The harm in ‘analysis and intense debate’ is that in and of itself, it’s quite pointless unless you have sufficient capacity, data and intelligence to do the analysis and somebody with similar and additional empirical knowledge than you. The additional problem with this is the impression analysis and useful debate has been made, as has progress. That is rarely the case.

There’s no point discussing issues with anyone that doesn’t have more knowledge on the subject that do you. Opinions are freely provided and normally worthless.

 

[Liquid validity]

The constitution is not out of date. Limiting the powers of Government never goes out of date. Why not just have a document that says "The Government can do whatever it wants"?

If that were the case it never would have been ammended in the past to suit that point in time.
Every one of those amendments would have been contentious at the time...
Look, for me this is a moot point, debate for the sake of it, no offence.
No more from me

 

[new_trader]

If that were the case it never would have been ammended in the past to suit that point in time.
Every one of those amendments would have been contentious at the time...
Look, for me this is a moot point, debate for the sake of it, no offence.
No more from me

OK

But let’s make one thing clear, Constitutional amendments have a procedure. The Government can’t simply say “I don’t like this bit” and make a change to it. There are essentially two ways spelled out in the Constitution for how to propose an amendment.

 

[Liquid validity]

OK

But let’s make one thing clear, Constitutional amendments have a procedure. The Government can’t simply say “I don’t like this bit” and make a change to it.

Completely agree

 

[degurube]

What? Saying "Best to get with and profit of your edge" is basically saying you aren't interested in understanding why things are changing, just get with...whatever 'with' is. This is ignorance.[/QUOTE

I believe the most important thing is to understand why things are changing and then profit of it....this is what 'best to get with it and profit of your edge' is all about. However, trying to discount the fact of reality that things are changing or trying to argue against the change is ignorant.

 

[new_trader]

I believe the most important thing is to understand why things are changing and then profit of it....this is what 'best to get with it and profit of your edge' is all about. However, trying to discount the fact of reality that things are changing or trying to argue against the change is ignorant.

No it isn't ignorant. It is linking cause and effect and there are many historical examples that can be used. If you are living in a country where your freedom and wealth is slowly being eroded by government, you think the best thing to do is try and profit from it? That isn't ignorance, that is sad. Governments like people like you.

Record number of American citizens renouncing their citizenship to avoid paying taxes | Mail Online

Eduardo Saverin renounces US citizenship ahead of Facebook IPO | Technology | guardian.co.uk

The US Government will probably start building a wall around the country to stop people from fleeing...perhaps you should invest in cement.

 

[degurube]

Would a better option be to discuss / analyse where Obama was born? Believe that's how we got here...the essence of this thread. My take being this wasn't key due to the reality of changes in this world as per globalization. Now you mention another angle about freedom /wealth being eroded by government. I fail to see how these two ideas are connected.

No it isn't ignorant. It is linking cause and effect and there are many historical examples that can be used. If you are living in a country where your freedom and wealth is slowly being eroded by government, you think the best thing to do is try and profit from it? That isn't ignorance, that is sad. Governments like people like you.

Record number of American citizens renouncing their citizenship to avoid paying taxes | Mail Online

Eduardo Saverin renounces US citizenship ahead of Facebook IPO | Technology | guardian.co.uk

The US Government will probably start building a wall around the country to stop people from fleeing...perhaps you should invest in cement.

 

[TheBramble]

degurube - engaging with NT will drive you insane. That boy can talk and talk and talk and still not have said anything. He also believes the Gold standrad was/is a good thing. LOL. Bring out the cup-cakes....

 

[degurube]

Take it you've been there, done that Bramble? Lol.

Cheers to NT for very a constructive talk

degurube - engaging with NT will drive you insane. That boy can talk and talk and talk and still not have said anything. He also believes the Gold standrad was/is a good thing. LOL. Bring out the cup-cakes....

 

[new_trader]

Take it you've been there, done that Bramble? Lol.

Cheers to NT for very a constructive talk

The discussion was about whether there is any merit in analysing and debating, naturally a conversation like that would go off on a tangent. As for TheRamble, why would you engage with someone who is inconsistent and unreliable? He is like a person who seeks attention with constantly failed suicide attempts. I mean, being permanently banned then signing up again under different multinicks and grovelling on his belly and performing whatever unsavoury acts just to be reinstated. He has no shame, no dignity...the very definition of being a mouse not a man....not to mention the fact that TheRamble has ‘permanently’ resigned from T2W on at least one occasion only to return less than 12 months later. Anyway now that he is got involved the thread is overcome with his insufferable stench, time to unsubscribe.

 

[TheBramble]

time to unsubscribe.

A small victory for the future of sensible debate on this thread.

Now children, NT has said he's unsubscribed, but if any of you spot him, you shout out "He's over there miss!!!".

 

[wackypete2]

You guys sure know how to beat a dead horse.

Peter

 

[TheBramble]

I think the point is, if you’re a Democrat you’re likely to be saying if the guy’s good (or at least not too bad) what does it matter that may or may not have been elected on the basis of incorrectly interpreted ambiguous and impenetrable constitution.

If you’re a Republican, you’ll probably insist that where there is any cause for questions of irregularity to be brought, they should be, even (especially) retrospectively.

It’s all opinion and for that, water under the bridge.

 

[eighteen]

i often think the whole obama in kenya thing is a poor attempt to hide the swathes of racism still present in the us, its We don't mind a black prez, except this ones born in kenya!!! seriously no one believes it.

 

[TheBramble]

Yeah, but it's only those bloody Hispanics that are racist...