The Trading Journey of Lurker

exits are more difficult imo and your options are to exit to a points target or to define the market action that will cause you to go.

Exits are more difficult indeed... that's why I think it's best to focus on entries first and forget about exits for now. If you have determined a way to enter a trade and you've found that -let's say- 50% of your trades go in right direction immediately and the other half don't you've already set a step in the right direction.

The next thing would be to determine how wide a stop you need to have, if the market goes in the right direction to catch the move (maximum adverse excursion).

And the other thing is to determine how far (on average) a trade goes in the right direction before reversing (maximum favourable excursion).
 
The process

I wish to trade the YM on an intra day basis. What must I do before I can paper trade, and what must I do before I can put on trades with actual money? Please over explain this and labour the important points. Specifically, how do I decide on entries and exits? (I think I'm okay on money management)

Basically you need to
1) determine what you want out of trading: trade for hobby, a living,...
2) determine a suitable timeframe for your style (can you sit on your hands for 4 hours doing nothing but watching the tape?)
3) determine your long and short time goals (small consistent profits are large gains accompanied with equally large drawdowns?)
4) try to analyze yourself (SWOT analysis)

Next you need to know what kind of trading suits you best
5) mechanical or discretionary appraoch?
6) price/volume / price patterns / indicators / pivot points / bollinger bands / candlestick analysis / a combination of any of the previous concepts...

After you determined that, you need to formulate a hypothesis and build something around that:
7) formulate a hypothesis
8) backtest and papertrade the hypothesis
9) refine the rules of your hypothesis into a conceptual idea
10) define the idea and the specifics surround it
11) define the tactics you are going to employ (enter with market order? stop placement? target strategy?)
12) go back to 8 and go through the process again to see what the performance of your system is, what is your win ratio, profit factor, maximum consecutive losses, maximum drawdown, average % gain per month,...

After you have written down the trading plan on paper, you can start to:
13) papertrade your system once all the pieces are in place
14) switch to real trading trading small size
15) analyze yourself and your ability to follow the trading plan
...

Finally, after a while you will (hopefully) have gained the confidence to stick to the plan and execute only those trades that fit the plan.
 
Firewalker, post 142, excellent summarisation, couldn't have put any better
 
Progress...

I hope we've provided you with enough information to get to work Lurker.
Keep us up to speed on your progress!

Greetz and good weekend,
fw
 
Hi FW,

Your post 142 is excellent for all newbie traders, thank you!

Fibonelli
 
Intermission

I hope we've provided you with enough information to get to work Lurker.
Keep us up to speed on your progress!

Greetz and good weekend,
fw

I appreciate the continued interest in my progress. I am still lurking around here, but I have taken a few days off from anything trading related in order to come back with a clearer mind.

I shall update here when I have something worthwhile to post, most likely on Monday evening.

Firewalker - Thank you so much for post #142. Possibly the single most helpful post for new traders I've seen so far - could someone sticky it or something? I wish I had had the information set out like that a few weeks ago - it would have saved a lot of frustration.

I cannot give kudos to firewalker at this time, although I respectfully suggest that #142 is worthy of some - perhaps those who have not given that post kudos could do so!

My progress - still working on the actual entry and exit criteria - expect to have those finished and backtested for the YM pretty soon. I expect to start paper trading again towards the end of this week. I'm also still reading plenty. More to follow.
 
Chart Setup

I am now using the following chart layout.

NinjaTrader / OpenTick

5 min ES + VOL + MACD(5,35,10)
5 min NYSE $TICK
1 min YM + VOL + 100 EMA + RSI(14) - (chartman's setup)
T&S for YM. Block notice for > 10 lots.

Looking to buy above the 100 EMA, sell below. Using chartman's YM setup, plus tick divergences with the ES chart.
 

Attachments

  • ym.png
    ym.png
    125.8 KB · Views: 228
Musings on Stops

Note to self:

Prior to entering a trade, consider when to exit a trade. Write down objective indicators that the market structure you are trading is violated. Set a hard stop in the market when opening a trade to protect against larger losses according to the amount of capital you should risk per trade. Hard stops are also useful for news, or platform / hardware issues. However, have a closer mental stop in place which is triggered according to certain pre-determined conditions. Exit the trade if these conditions are triggered.

Brett Steenbarger says it best:

"Should one abandon stops altogether? I think not. If we consider every trade to be a hypothesis that is based upon our understanding of the marketplace, we owe it to ourselves to abandon that trade once the hypothesis is disconfirmed. The problem with most price-based stops is that they are not formulated with these hypotheses in mind. They are employed, I suspect, as much to manage the trader's anxiety as to manage objective risk."

...

"Is your stop loss criterion truly protecting you from the risk of future adverse price movements, or is it stopping your temporary level of anxiety about a drawdown during a trade? Do you really know how your stops impact your trading performance? What makes us most comfortable in the markets is rarely what enables us to pursue opportunity. The best stops protect us from our fallibility, not from our frailty."
 
lurkerlurker,

A mental device you might consider is to imagine how the market could reverse direction from that point. Taking the opposite mental position makes it easier to exit a trade if you have to and also makes it easier to avoid a revenge trade if this one results in a loss.
 
A thought

I've learned that the simple methods work best. Those who need to rely upon complex stochastics, linear weighted moving averages, smoothing techniques, Fibonacci numbers etc., usually find that they have so many things rolling around in their heads that they cannot make a rational decision. One technique says buy; another says sell. Another says sit tight while another says add to the trade. It sounds like a cliche, but simple methods work best.

The first and most important rule is - in bull markets, one is supposed to be long. This may sound obvious, but how many of us have sold the first rally in every bull market, saying that the market has moved too far, too fast. I have before, and I suspect I'll do it again at some point in the future. Thus, we've not enjoyed the profits that should have accrued to us for our initial bullish outlook, but have actually lost money while being short. In a bull market, one can only be long or on the sidelines. Remember, not having a position is a position.
Buy that which is showing strength - sell that which is showing weakness. The public continues to buy when prices have fallen. The professional buys because prices have rallied. This difference may not sound logical, but buying strength works. The rule of survival is not to "buy low, sell high", but to "buy higher and sell higher". Furthermore, when comparing various stocks within a group, buy only the strongest and sell the weakest.
When putting on a trade, enter it as if it has the potential to be the biggest trade of the year. Don't enter a trade until it has been well thought out, a campaign has been devised for adding to the trade, and contingency plans set for exiting the trade.
On minor corrections against the major trend, add to trades. In bull markets, add to the trade on minor corrections back into support levels. In bear markets, add on corrections into resistance. Use the 33-50% corrections level of the previous movement or the proper moving average as a first point in which to add.
Be patient. If a trade is missed, wait for a correction to occur before putting the trade on.
Be patient. Once a trade is put on, allow it time to develop and give it time to create the profits you expected.
Be patient. The old adage that "you never go broke taking a profit" is maybe the most worthless piece of advice ever given. Taking small profits is the surest way to ultimate loss I can think of, for small profits are never allowed to develop into enormous profits. The real money in trading is made from the one, two or three large trades that develop each year. You must develop the ability to patiently stay with winning trades to allow them to develop into that sort of trade.
Be patient. Once a trade is put on, give it time to work; give it time to insulate itself from random noise; give it time for others to see the merit of what you saw earlier than they.
Be impatient. As always, small loses and quick losses are the best losses. It is not the loss of money that is important. Rather, it is the mental capital that is used up when you sit with a losing trade that is important.
Never, ever under any condition, add to a losing trade, or "average" into a position. If you are buying, then each new buy price must be higher than the previous buy price. If you are selling, then each new selling price must be lower. This rule is to be adhered to without question.
Do more of what is working for you, and less of what's not. Each day, look at the various positions you are holding, and try to add to the trade that has the most profit while subtracting from that trade that is either unprofitable or is showing the smallest profit. This is the basis of the old adage, "let your profits run."
Don't trade until the technicals and the fundamentals both agree. This rule makes pure technicians cringe. I don't care! I will not trade until I am sure that the simple technical rules I follow, and my fundamental analysis, are running in tandem. Then I can act with authority, and with certainty, and patiently sit tight.
When sharp losses in equity are experienced, take time off. Close all trades and stop trading for several days. The mind can play games with itself following sharp, quick losses. The urge "to get the money back" is extreme, and should not be given in to.
When trading well, trade somewhat larger. We all experience those incredible periods of time when all of our trades are profitable. When that happens, trade aggressively and trade larger. We must make our proverbial "hay" when the sun does shine.
When adding to a trade, add only 1/4 to 1/2 as much as currently held. That is, if you are holding 400 shares of a stock, at the next point at which to add, add no more than 100 or 200 shares. That moves the average price of your holdings less than half of the distance moved, thus allowing you to sit through 50% corrections without touching your average price.
Think like a guerrilla warrior. We wish to fight on the side of the market that is winning, not wasting our time and capital on futile efforts to gain fame by buying the lows or selling the highs of some market movement. Our duty is to earn profits by fighting alongside the winning forces. If neither side is winning, then we don't need to fight at all.
Markets form their tops in violence; markets form their lows in quiet conditions.
The final 10% of the time of a bull run will usually encompass 50% or more of the price movement. Thus, the first 50% of the price movement will take 90% of the time and will require the most backing and filling and will be far more difficult to trade than the last 50%.
There is no "genius" in these rules. They are common sense and nothing else, but as Voltaire said, "Common sense is uncommon." Trading is a common-sense business. When we trade contrary to common sense, we will lose. Perhaps not always, but enormously and eventually. Trade simply. Avoid complex methodologies concerning obscure technical systems and trade according to the major trends only.
 
Thanks for that quote Dinos. There are some real gems in there, including taking time off after losses, and of course not averaging down.
 
Dinos,
one of the best posts I've ever read on these forums....it makes all the relevent points you'll ever need to know and understand on trading....excellent stuff...thanks for taking the time to post it.
I'm gonna post on Dow board also.......

cheers
 
lurker,

sorry for interrupting your journal, but to be honest, kudos to Dinos for his post. system says i cant give the kudos, so had to write it.

i hope "taking time off" is helping.

all the best

j
 
Your journal is turning into a real treasure, isn't it :)

Believe it or not, it was always intended to be a useful resource for newbie traders like me first, and a vehicle for my progression second. It is a real treasure, and belongs to us all. Hopefully in time parts of it will be quickly quoted to answer many of the questions of a new trader, or to shed some light on a concept we have been discussing. Much like you keep linking dbphoenix posts.
 
i hope "taking time off" is helping.

Thank you for your thoughts. I think some time off has helped, although I've not had too much of it. I've been mostly lurking here :)lol:), however I've been working diligently in cobbling together some sort of strategy for entries and exits.

Tonight will be a late night - much to do. Will post more tomorrow.
 
First YM trade, 7 June 2007

First Trade

Short from 13311. Covered at 13309. Out +2. Sat through a large move against, then covered on a limit too close to the entry. Price went at least another +15 in my favour. Cutting a profit prematurely through desire to be flat.
 
Top