The Three Keys

[dbphoenix]

What do you guys think?

As long as you have it all planned out ahead of time and stick to your plan, great, assuming that what you are doing generates profit.

Given the differences of opinion and in approach expressed here, and my comment above, I suppose I should point out -- and this is in reference to nobody in particular -- that whether or not one makes money doing whatever is not a sufficient test of whether or not he is "right" to be doing whatever it is he is doing. If, for example, one has a near target and a wide stop, he can make money if he is good at entry (assuming that he is also disciplined). But his reward:risk is never going to amount to much. But he is making money. Therefore, he is "right". Now someone else might look at this and think he's out of his mind to settle for what seems paltry. But they're hardly in a position to tell him that he's wasting his time and ought to try something else. It is not, after all, their money.

Some might think that I, for example, am fairly casual about stops. My targets are support and resistance, and I don't exit unless I am presented with a clear reversal signal. Absent that signal, I don't much care what price does on its way to the target as long as it gets there. On the other hand, if I get that signal, I'm out. Is that a stop? Some might say so. Some might not. One might just call it an exit strategy. In any case, I know exactly what I'm looking for, and when I see it, I'm done. I don't wait around to "see what happens". I don't hope for more.

And I'm out of here as well.

 

[DaxDestroyer]

As long as you have it all planned out ahead of time and stick to your plan, great, assuming that what you are doing generates profit.

Given the differences of opinion and in approach expressed here, and my comment above, I suppose I should point out -- and this is in reference to nobody in particular -- that whether or not one makes money doing whatever is not a sufficient test of whether or not he is "right" to be doing whatever it is he is doing. If, for example, one has a near target and a wide stop, he can make money if he is good at entry (assuming that he is also disciplined). But his reward:risk is never going to amount to much. But he is making money. Therefore, he is "right". Now someone else might look at this and think he's out of his mind to settle for what seems paltry. But they're hardly in a position to tell him that he's wasting his time and ought to try something else. It is not, after all, their money.

Some might think that I, for example, am fairly casual about stops. My targets are support and resistance, and I don't exit unless I am presented with a clear reversal signal. Absent that signal, I don't much care what price does on its way to the target as long as it gets there. On the other hand, if I get that signal, I'm out. Is that a stop? Some might say so. Some might not. One might just call it an exit strategy. In any case, I know exactly what I'm looking for, and when I see it, I'm done. I don't wait around to "see what happens". I don't hope for more.

And I'm out of here as well.

Right you are, Sir

I meant the two "fighters", what they think. I know, that you are a successful trader

 

[FXSCALPER2]

What you are talking about is really not about stops. The core concept around which your ideas are constructed is price extremes. With that as your starting point, the question is why not enter at those extremes and exist immidiately if you are wrong? Look at the chart, The red arrows show a previous resistance. The trade is entered where thoase arrows are. This is also a retracement of a down move but that is not relevant to the issue here.

 

[stevespray]

What you are talking about is really not about stops. The core concept around which your ideas are constructed is price extremes. With that as your starting point, the question is why not enter at those extremes and exist immidiately if you are wrong? Look at the chart, The red arrows show a previous resistance. The trade is entered where thoase arrows are. This is also a retracement of a down move but that is not relevant to the issue here.

Just got back in. Plenty to read.

What are we looking at?

OK, I see your charts and your comments FX. Nice chart by the way. Can we try something? Can you make that a 5 minute chart and add a volume study? Lets see if we can detect where the market was making potential 'stop runs'?

Steve.

 

[Lightning McQueen]

Yes, so much to read

Explain the chart fx, sorry I don't get it, apologies for being dim

Ah! thanks, I see the edit.

 

[Lightning McQueen]

I'm also a little disappointed the PV guys in the thread haven't offered an explanation of the market dynamics at work in this method, ok we don't use volume but such is life on the SB platform.

The threads been really busy so may comment later, like the traffic lights jon.

Behind the scenes people are still having great succcess with this method and pulling in the points off the SB companies, they really should be contributing to the thread.

Thanks Steve for your contributions, great stuff mate

 

[Trader333]

Steve,

I don't think you can get volume on fx so it may not be possible for FXS2 to oblige.


Paul

 

[stevespray]

Steve,

I don't think you can get volume on fx so it may not be possible for FXS2 to oblige.


Paul

It looks like a Meta chart so hope he can get FX volume on it

Steve.

 

[FXSCALPER2]

These can be scalp trades, they need to managed in terms of where to take profits. The idea is to determine price extremes by trading support/resistance levels. In the previous AUDUSD, you sell where the red line is. Here are more charts. GBPUSD fell sharply after retail sales this morning, it then retraced a bit and broke the red line. The thing to then do is sell it if it hits that previous support at 61 and exit immidiately for a small loss if it isbroken. in the USDJPY chart, you short where the arrows are. The first arrow was triggered. If this didn't work out, then you exit and wait for the next level where you see the arrow higher up. The EURJPY short was not triggered, but the idea is the same

My point is not to show my trades. It is to suggest a way of using 'price extremes' as entries.

I don't know anything about volume.

 

[tune]

I'm also a little disappointed the PV guys in the thread haven't offered an explanation of the market dynamics at work in this method, ok we don't use volume but such is life on the SB platform.

Not putting myself forward as a PV expert here but could you please explain what you mean by not explaining the market dynamics at work in this method. I don't understand. Do you mean the whole method?

 

[black bear]

All who posted on Stops subject

Thanks, appreciated,

 

[stevespray]

Not putting myself forward as a PV expert here but could you please explain what you mean by not explaining the market dynamics at work in this method. I don't understand. Do you mean the whole method?

I think what LM was mentioning why we get these fast moves.

It is basically a cascade or domino effect cause by lots of orders entering the market quickly. If the market trades to a point where there are quite a few stop orders those orders are quickly fired into the market by the broker. These orders hitting the market quickly eat up all the limit orders supporting that particular price and the price moves further still which in turn triggers more orders and so the cycle repeats itself until the market moves to such a point where opposite interest is induced and the cycle is broken.

Steve.

 

[Lightning McQueen]

Not putting myself forward as a PV expert here but could you please explain what you mean by not explaining the market dynamics at work in this method. I don't understand. Do you mean the whole method?

Hi tune

Yes, sure, my inquisitive nature brings me to ask the question why the method works as it does, it does work but why? I don't have to know just as I don't need to know why my car drives down the road, I would just like to have the price action dynamics explained, the whole method is price and one MA.

I will post a chart over the weekend, perhaps a kind member may put some explanations on it for the benefit of the thread

 

[darktone]

1 Mental stop of 20 pips.

2 Hard stop of 40 pips.

If our trade goes into loss then we will monitor it closely.

This means that we have now accepted that our trade is a poor one and we are looking to get out.

responsibility for the trade management

I dont really understand why your getting flamed!?

-20 pips = Im wrong / breath in.......breath out........ok where are my swing points? i got one there at + 20 so im setting limit to bail at +10.. Or I got one at +10 im bailin BE...Or ......Or......Or.......OR!! "The one i think some have missed" WTF just happened there!!:-0 Man im glad i had my hard stop in at -40.

Can understand why some would have issues with it. But to my mind it could be valid depending on style etc.

Thanks for the typing time.

 

[Lightning McQueen]

Ok you price action gurus, whats going on here then, looks have a bit of a break out feel to it, what do you reckon ?

There's no trade management as yet in the method, just a "rabbit caught in headlights, I'll bail out the trade here as price is reversing" managing the trade is work in progress :whistling

 

[darktone]

Ok you price action gurus, whats going on here then, looks have a bit of a break out feel to it, what do you reckon ?

There's no trade management as yet in the method, just a "rabbit caught in headlights, I'll bail out the trade here as price is reversing" managing the trade is work in progress :whistling

Hello LM
First up you got the direction right and you made a profit!! Nice one! :clap:
Cant really see much from the chart you posted of the action leading up to the trade and i admit i havent watched DOW in a goood while. Looking heavy isnt it!
A couple of questions.
1) Why 15 min charts?
2) How wide and where was your stop placed?
3) Projected RR for the trade?

I am NO guru btw!

 

[Lightning McQueen]

Hello LM
First up you got the direction right and you made a profit!! Nice one! :clap:
Cant really see much from the chart you posted of the action leading up to the trade and i admit i havent watched DOW in a goood while. Looking heavy isnt it!
A couple of questions.
1) Why 15 min charts?
2) How wide and where was your stop placed?
3) Projected RR for the trade?

I am NO guru btw!

Hi darktone

Do you think I should maybe post a chart with a couple of days on it ?

15 mins was chosen as there are more bars for people to look at rather than my customary hourly bars.

Stop is real tight as in spread of four + a few points, I've not experienced more than 6 points underwater yet before the trade goes my way.

There is no risk / reward built in to the method as yet :innocent:

Cheers, me no guru either :whistling

Lightning

 

[darktone]

Hi darktone

Do you think I should maybe post a chart with a couple of days on it ?

15 mins was chosen as there are more bars for people to look at rather than my customary hourly bars.

Stop is real tight as in spread of four + a few points, I've not experienced more than 6 points underwater yet before the trade goes my way.

There is no risk / reward built in to the method as yet :innocent:

Cheers me no guru either :whistling

Lightning

Yeah if you post at least the full day then its easier for you and folks watching to see what PA lead you to the trade.
Re the TF i was thinking more along the lines of 1min for entry purposes to be honest!
Im amazed you using a 10 tick or less stop on 15min chart!? is it a hard stop? Samuri precise timing!
Id post a chart but caught for time! Do you consider larger TF to gauge direction or do just concentrate on each day as it comes view?
What kinda % you put on the line per trade btw?
Sorry if u already posted this stuff but i got caught up in other bits o the thread.

Off to miltonkeynes to fly in a tunnel!:cheesy:

 

[Splitlink]

Sorry, Steve, I must express my doubts, too.

BSD's post 125 explained the problem perfectly. When do you decide when enough is enough?

Your post 88 made me rub my hands in anticipation of reading a new idea but to me, a stop is to get me out of a losing trade.

I understand that your idea is to reduce the loss of a bad trade and get out but, if the trade reverses to something that looks like a pinbar, why should you close, then?

I, also, understand that some of my stops have been hit and then reversed. This is what your posts are about and that happens to most of us at some time or another. I think that the thread by TD is a good approach to that, i.e. trade on pins, although they go wrong, as well.

Your approach is not dissimilar to the "Writing Naked Option" approach. There is a swan around the corner.

Another idea is to try to get the stop right, in the first place, then extend it by another 10-15 points in anticipation of a bounce. However, the stop has to be there.

Split

 

[Lightning McQueen]

Here's a 1 min chart