Best Thread The Options edge (Writing Vs Buying)

Profitaker,

Vol of vol, please. I'm not looking for for masses of figures, just a general indication. For example, re my FTSE research, +/- 3.5% or greater daily (not intra-day) was not unusual (and profitable). Note my FTSE figures were based on last trade or settlement atm implied only.

Thank you.

Grant.
 
Ducati,

Excellent analysis on the option position.

A couple of points if I may. I've never looked at historic vol but is there any correlation between hist and implied, and to what degree are comparisons/correlations valid? What time-frame(s) do you use.

It is generally accepted that implied is mean-reverting, therefore if there is a degree of correlation re hist vs implied, then there must be (a degree of) mean-reversion on the underlying. I would find this difficult to accept.

Of course, there are corrections on the underlying but this isn't necessarily inevitable (I don't believe in cycles for stocks or indexes)

One may ask, if mean-reversion is OK for the implied, why not for the historical and by extension the underlying? I would suggest it's a question of risk. Implied reflects the markets perception of risk. We can't have unlimited risk as the price would be too high, and there would be no buyers; conversely, the concept of no risk doesn't sit too well - even options on government bonds have a risk premium.

In contrast the underylying can be anywhere between zero and almost unlimited.

I'm not questioning your expertise, here but looking for elucidation or a basis.

Thank you.

Grant
 
Just wanted to say a quick public thank you to those that have kindly responded to my irksome queries. I will respond in turn to a couple of points over the weekend. Cheers.
 
grant

A couple of points if I may. I've never looked at historic vol but is there any correlation between hist and implied, and to what degree are comparisons/correlations valid? What time-frame(s) do you use.

Yes, they can correlate very closely, or conversely they can diverge significantly.
This divergence/convergence is the underlying mechanism within theoretical pricing models.
The time frame that most closely correlates with the trade being taken.
Using Frugi's example of 60 days, the time period that *in theory* be utilized is the last 60 day period.

However, as Profitaker has alluded, when SELLING, it is prudent to look at the highest volatility that has presented in at least the last year..........this represents a worst case scenario.
If BUYING, as long as there is some margin to the upside, then you can benefit should *direction* not be quite right, but volatility drifts upwards [if only slightly]
Of course now we need to look at *gamma* as in an ideal world, with low IV, I would like to see gamma on a rising curve.

It is generally accepted that implied is mean-reverting, therefore if there is a degree of correlation re hist vs implied, then there must be (a degree of) mean-reversion on the underlying. I would find this difficult to accept.

Absolutely correct. And, there is mean reversion on the underlying.
In 1913, a PhD was published by Bachelier in France, and demonstrated via rather complex mathematical equations that, price fluctuations grow in range and will be proportional to the square root of time

Stock prices in the United States over the last 100 years have 66% of the time fluctuated within a range of 5.9% on either side of their average.
The range in a course of a year has not been 72% or a multiple of 12 [year] rather, it has averaged around 20%

This is 3.5 times the monthly range.
The square root of 12 = 3.46

This data has stood the test of time, some 100yrs+, thus, the Option Pricing Models have been based on this proven mathematical theory, and form the rational basis underlying some of the assumptions.

Of course, if we want to move into slightly more esoteric ground, and that possibly forms a mathematical basis for Gann theory then;

This is chaos in the mathematical definition, not your standard day-to-day useage.

In it's simplest form chaos can be written;
4x{1 - x}
Computing the value of *x* of that expression for some initial value of *x* then substituting this answer back into the original expression starts a feedback loop.

Repeating this simple iterative process repetitively produces surprisingly complex, unpredictable mathematical behaviour.

The mathematical behaviour expresses the same kind of disorder produced by non-linear equations

The simplest non-linear equation;
Xn+1 = KXn - KXn(1 - Xn)

This equation determines the future value of the variable x at the time step n + 1 from the past value of x at time step n

This is known as the logistic equation
All well and good, but, what the hell is this to do with the Gannies?

Logistic equations are used in Medicine to predict population expansion, via Birth rates, Death rates, due in part to availability of food, water, arable land, disease etc.

It can also be used in ecology, for populations of insects, crops, etc.
Gann was interested in commodities.
Wait, there's more.

The logistic equation is a quadratic equation with a linear first term, and, a non-linear second term

It is the non-linear, or feedback component that is important.

For a given value of K once a starting point Xo is specified, the evolution of the system is fully determined. One step, inexorably leads to the next.
The whole process can be pictured on a graph.

It forms a parabola, that opens downwards.
There is a short-cut provided via the graphical representation, that avoids endless computations.

The addition of a 45 degree line up from the horizontal axis [representing the line Xn+1 = Xn]
The best course is to steer is from Xo vertically to the parabola to reach X1 then horizontally to the 45 degree line, and vertically back to the parabola.

These paths or Orbits give the first indication of which routes lead to the erratic behaviour of chaos

Whereas some orbits converge, on one particular value, others jump back and forth among a few possible values, and many roam, never settling anywhere.

When K is between 1 & 3, just about every route no matter where it starts, is eventually attracted to a specific value called a fixed point which occurs where the parabola intersects the 45 degree line at x = [k - 1]/k This corresponds to to a steady state or equilibrium

Therefore, taking the previous mathematical work performed by Bachelier, combined with a logistic equation, and you can reproduce seemingly Gann.

One may ask, if mean-reversion is OK for the implied, why not for the historical and by extension the underlying? I would suggest it's a question of risk. Implied reflects the markets perception of risk. We can't have unlimited risk as the price would be too high, and there would be no buyers; conversely, the concept of no risk doesn't sit too well - even options on government bonds have a risk premium.

As previously detailed, correlation exists for mean reversion.
Risk, is a somewhat different subject, and requires first a definition of risk, applicable to the general, and the specific.

jog on
d998
 
Ducati,

Thank you for detailed explanation. A bit above my head but I will give it some attention over the weekend.

I'll be back with questions.

Grant.
 
CYOF said:
Can you plz reply to my post 411 by Monday also?

I think you and your friends are all afraid of this OPTIONS TRADING QUESTION???????

Hi CY

I dont understand why you want my input on this, but I might take a look if I find time over the weekend. I have no reason to be afraid of questions, I thrive on anything that provides an opportunity to think or learn something new. I dont even mind getting the answer wrong and being ridiculed in public :LOL: I also reserve the right to change my mind in the future :cheesy:

You do however seam to be taking this all a little too personally, if there where no differences of opinion, there'd be no markets, and then where the hell would we be :LOL: Ive told you, Im still undecided about the argument, and slowly working through the issues, and this will take some time. All I can say is that no one from your side of the fence has offered anything new that I would consider remotely conclusive in the way of hard facts or evidence, thank god you guys arnt involved in medical research, or sit as high court judges :LOL:

On a positive note the posts by Frugi, ducati998, PT and Grant have all provided material which has stimulated my innterest, and thank's to them my understanding of the subject has improved tremendously and the mists possibly beginning to clear, although I know from bitter experience this mist stuff does have a habit of decending quickly and often when you least expect it

Anyway all the best and have a great weekend.

regards
zu
 
ducatis post 445 is one of the best for the past few weeks.

on topic, objective, mathematical formulas allowing for proving independantly, and other insights.

his last two posts (including the thought-process of IV against HV to determine buying decision) have contained more useful information than the previous 200.

hope this new direction continues.
 
zupcon said:
I came upon this article earlier today. It specifically adresses the validity of the statistics in the John Summa article, its extremely clear and even I understood it !

http://www.esignallearning.com/education/marketmaster/archive/1205/121605.asp

regards
zup
The reasoning is undisputed.

However...this is like holding a road map in your hand.

The act of holding the road map in your hand is not on its own going to get you safely from your departure to your destination is it ?;)

I forgot to mention ....but I think it is wiser not to mention.;)
 
et al

I see that Zup has been looking further at the Summa statistics, and they are [Summa] proving to be an example of mined data.

Returning to the COW article that was also posted as evidence, a further extract;

The logic of a short option strategy, such as a strangle, is similar to that of insurance companies. Insurers collect premium on policies with the expectation of future payouts. By knowing the probability of a claim, they can calculate their expected return for assuming the risk of the policyholder. They are confident that over time they will profit despite their obligation to pay claims.

Insurance companies; well there are a few different types of Insurance companies.
We have Life Insurance, Auto Insurance, Medical Insurance, SuperCat Insurance, Reinsurance companies & numerous other sub-specialities.

Probabilities of a claim.
Taking the easy ones first, Life Insurance.
Life Insurance companies have access to all of the following;

*Actuarial tables & calculations of mortality rates
*Data sharing with other Life Insurance companies
*Statistics based on Law of large numbers [time & insureds]
*Underwriting standards

Now based on all of the above, you would expect this business to make money.
Well, in good years they do, in bad years they don't.

What constitutes a bad year?
In essence competition.
Excessive competition pushes margins on the underwriting component too low, in essence, the IV of the Option is at a low percentage compared to historical standards.

Life Insurance makes money, when the supply of insurance is low [after bad years and Insurance companies go out of business] and demand is steady or high.
Underwriting profits then are high, as they can overprice their *risk* ........again, in Options language, the IV premium is high.

Looking at the other end of the Insurance spectrum, SuperCat.
Here we have a very similar business model to the stockmarket, or other financial markets.
We have *risks* that are unusual, that have limited data, limited number of companies with which to share data, limited data for actuarial calculations etc.

Berkshire Hathaway is probably the best example of SuperCat.
It has a huge capitalization, cash reserves, AAA credit [the ability to borrow cheaply]
Customers seeking SuperCat insurance require the confidence that if a claim is made, that the ability to pay the claim is never in doubt.

For this assurance, BRK.A can charge very high premiums.
Again, in Options language, the premium is taken at very high IV.
Buffett and his underwriter would never knowingly sell IV cheaply.

A feature of SuperCat, like financial markets are the Black Swan events, that swallow up the premium taken, and incur the losses accruing to the policy.

The question therefore becomes much more straightforward;
*can you predict the timing, severity, and direction of a Black Swan event?
*can you correctly price the premium?
*can you limit your liability?
*can you diversify widely enough?
*have you priced for the correlations
*after pricing for all of the above, can you return a profit?
*what is your return on capital?
*is this acceptable?

jog on
d998
 
SOCRATES said:
The reasoning is undisputed.

However...this is like holding a road map in your hand.

The act of holding the road map in your hand is not on its own going to get you safely from your departure to your destination is it ?;)

I forgot to mention ....but I think it is wiser not to mention.;)

Hi Socrates

This is a good post, and it merits a reasonably well thought out response, rather than an off the cuff remark. Im a little pushed for time this evening, but hopefully tomorrow will be less hectic

regards
zupcon
 
Ducati,

Observations re black swans, GARCH, LTCM, probability, etc.

As you point out, medical life Insurers determine premiums based on actuarial tables, etc which are derived from statistical analysis, eg male aged 65 smoking 40 cigs a day for the last 40 years can be expected to live to X years. If he lives to 100, in retrospect the insurance could be regarded as being cheap or underpriced (may be parallels to Profitaker’s point re difficulty of predicting implied).

The ’87 crash, regarded as a black swan (I hate that term), had a statistical expectation of something like once every 10,000 years. The precise figure isn’t important. What is important is the false sense of security this type of analysis produces, eg as found in GARCH. Isn’t the problem one of interpretation vs expectation?

For example, if the market can be expected to drop 10% in one day once every five years, the fact that it occurs twice in one year, but not again until 10 years later, does not invalidate – indeed, it maintains - the statistic. Isn’t it the case that people will still look at the statistical evidence (down 10% every five years) and use that as a basis, or component, for their risk management?

If I’m correct, the principle weakness of GARCH is that it quantifies and extrapolates from extreme events based on historic time series. Therefore, it is statistically sound. What it can’t recognise is the theoretical possibility of an event, or combination of events, hitherto unseen. This was LTCM’s undoing – Sovereign default, devaluation, breakdown of negative(?) correlation between lower/higher grade bonds, no buyers when they wanted to sell (all compounded by gearing factor of 30).

Grant.
 
Grant

Quite so.
This is why, I would prefer to be a buyer, rather than a seller of Options.
If that once in 10,000 year event drops onto the doormat, and I have bought a cheap straddle, guess what, I'm feeling good.

If perchance, I have sold that event, if I am hedged, I could take my maximum loss.
If naked.........god forbid............it's all over, wipeout.

One of the links provided by CYOF [fixed by Zup] referred to a firm that at one point *specialized* in selling naked positions. Looking at their later returns, it would seem from the reduction in their returns, that they may have implemented a hedging program.

In reference to the thread, and is there an *edge* in selling or buying, the answer is neither has a statistical or theoretical edge. As regards a *psychological edge* well that is an open question.

jog on
d998
 
Further from the COW article

By nature, options are a depreciating asset. Just as a new car buyer will find that the value of their purchase diminishes once the automobile is driven off of the seller’s lot, an option buyer will find that the time value of their long option erodes with every passing minute.

Theta, which is the measurement of the time decay is often bandied about as a *theoretical edge* or even as a practical edge.

Of course while it is true that theta generally only runs one direction, there are exceptions to this rule, so even that *fact* is open to challenge.

However, for all practical purposes, theta is negative, and does favour the seller of an Option.
There are unfortunately no free lunches in the market. The inverse greek *gamma* will hurt the seller, and favour the buyer.

Therefore we have a *net zero* in theoretical terms of the two greeks.
It is only by an analysis of market conditions, combined with an analysis of the greeks, via a pricing model [or other] that we can determine the rational strategy, and management of that strategy.

Therefore, the COW article in this point, is factually incorrect.
Thus, the entire premise put forward by Soccy & CYOF, logically must be thrown out at this point.

jog on
d998
 
Ducati,

Ansbacher's, as referenced, are not offering anything unusual or innovative. I would suggest it is a cynical attempt to max on comm's - $9 r-t with on a $100 mill fund? They're taking the pssi. I did look at all their detail and there were, superficially, inconsistences with their objectives and approaches. This would seem to be supported by the number of revisions and expansions on the original remit.

Selling puts and calls in expectation of a flat market? I assume they would sell be selling high vol (but I doubt they would be that concerned); so there's a contradiction - high vols are not prelude to a flat market. But if they believe a flat market is developing, they must be selling low vol. Not particularly opportune.

Does all this suggest stupdity. Initially, yes. Do they know what they are doing. I suspect they know exactly what they are doing.

Grant.
 
Grant

Of course, the correlation becomes clear.
The author of the COW article is a broker.
$9.00 commissions on client funds each month writing Options, good for her business.

Good for her clients?
Depends I guess.

jog on
d998
 
ducati998 said:
Further from the COW article



Theta, which is the measurement of the time decay is often bandied about as a *theoretical edge* or even as a practical edge.

Of course while it is true that theta generally only runs one direction, there are exceptions to this rule, so even that *fact* is open to challenge.

However, for all practical purposes, theta is negative, and does favour the seller of an Option.
There are unfortunately no free lunches in the market. The inverse greek *gamma* will hurt the seller, and favour the buyer.

Therefore we have a *net zero* in theoretical terms of the two greeks.
It is only by an analysis of market conditions, combined with an analysis of the greeks, via a pricing model [or other] that we can determine the rational strategy, and management of that strategy.

Therefore, the COW article in this point, is factually incorrect.
Thus, the entire premise put forward by Soccy & CYOF, logically must be thrown out at this point.

jog on
d998
ducatti, I am delighted you think so....:cool: .
 
ducati998 said:
Grant

Quite so.
This is why, I would prefer to be a buyer, rather than a seller of Options.
If that once in 10,000 year event drops onto the doormat, and I have bought a cheap straddle, guess what, I'm feeling good.

If perchance, I have sold that event, if I am hedged, I could take my maximum loss.
If naked.........god forbid............it's all over, wipeout.

One of the links provided by CYOF [fixed by Zup] referred to a firm that at one point *specialized* in selling naked positions. Looking at their later returns, it would seem from the reduction in their returns, that they may have implemented a hedging program.

In reference to the thread, and is there an *edge* in selling or buying, the answer is neither has a statistical or theoretical edge. As regards a *psychological edge* well that is an open question.

jog on
d998

Why go naked.? Writing shares on which you have, already, made a profit, but which you believe are due for a setback but do not, particularly, want to sell, are what options are for. If you get called, you still get your option money plus the exercise price of the stock. If the price drops below the exercise price, then you won't be called. In my opinion, callers who buy with nice, fat, time premiums on them are just what the writers are waiting for.

What's happened is that dealing in indices has become a hugely profitable sideline for the exchanges and is very popular with the punters. It is, nevertheless, gambling. Doing calender or vertical spreads involves trading two different options, one call and one put--double the expense. Just what the brokers delight in.

Split
 
ducati998 said:
Grant

Quite so.
This is why, I would prefer to be a buyer, rather than a seller of Options.
If that once in 10,000 year event drops onto the doormat, and I have bought a cheap straddle, guess what, I'm feeling good.

If perchance, I have sold that event, if I am hedged, I could take my maximum loss.
If naked.........god forbid............it's all over, wipeout.

One of the links provided by CYOF [fixed by Zup] referred to a firm that at one point *specialized* in selling naked positions. Looking at their later returns, it would seem from the reduction in their returns, that they may have implemented a hedging program.

In reference to the thread, and is there an *edge* in selling or buying, the answer is neither has a statistical or theoretical edge. As regards a *psychological edge* well that is an open question.

jog on
d998
The only psychological edge there can be is the abiltiy to remain perffectly calm...but that of itself is not an edge in the strictest sense of the word...it is just an ability......:cool: ...and that ability is not related to making choices, though for the very uncertain it must certainly be a plus....:cheesy:
 
Top