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SOCRATES
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You are absolutely right, but the problem is that very few recognise when something of real value is placed in front of them as a consequence of looking for shortcuts, like the story of the tortoise and the
hare. And it is very funny, because those who have been able in a structured manner to create a persona for the purpose of trading sit in front of a screen and because they look the same as everybody else appear to be doing the same things, but they are not. The difference is that their results are distinguished by the quality of their thinking and their thinking is the result of not being emotionally or personally involved with what is presented.
Then therefore to the observer it looks strange. But they cannot pin it ~ they want the results but not the work involved in developing and preparing the mind. So for this reason no visitors are allowed. No trades are discussed in public. No charts are shown. No software or books are discussed.If only everybody got their heads sorted out before they attempted this there would not be any public discussions about systems and indicators and what to trade and what timeframes and so on .
Everyone would be able to just get on with it. But as a consequence of putting the cart before the horse,
the journey does not have to go very far before what appear to be unresolvable problems involving emotions and feelings and other inabilities pop up.
hare. And it is very funny, because those who have been able in a structured manner to create a persona for the purpose of trading sit in front of a screen and because they look the same as everybody else appear to be doing the same things, but they are not. The difference is that their results are distinguished by the quality of their thinking and their thinking is the result of not being emotionally or personally involved with what is presented.
Then therefore to the observer it looks strange. But they cannot pin it ~ they want the results but not the work involved in developing and preparing the mind. So for this reason no visitors are allowed. No trades are discussed in public. No charts are shown. No software or books are discussed.If only everybody got their heads sorted out before they attempted this there would not be any public discussions about systems and indicators and what to trade and what timeframes and so on .
Everyone would be able to just get on with it. But as a consequence of putting the cart before the horse,
the journey does not have to go very far before what appear to be unresolvable problems involving emotions and feelings and other inabilities pop up.
SOCRATES
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No they are not at all . It is post 597 # that I would like you to put your attention on, asdc2000 said:
this is an important adjuct to your question, that you may ask again once you have read
597# carefully and hopefully grasped its true meaning.
Hi Socrates and all,
How can the trading persona develop uncorrupted, fenced off? It is being created by the very instrument it wishes to free itself from. Will not the new persona be seen as a threat to survival?
I see similarities in the mental or pyschological requirments say between a trader, a star athlete, or a musician. Is not the goal in all cases to be in the moment without fear or ego. Does a star soccer player develop a separate soccer persona?
I see my problems in trading as the same as the ones in the rest of my life - mostly the same inappropriate beliefs and fears. I do not see the need to develop a separate trading persona. Trading seems to mirror life itself. As my trading improves so do many other aspects of my life.
Is the constant corrupting of efforts to change the result of maintaing subconcious contradictory beliefs or motives? No amount of effort or knowledge will succeed entirely if these beliefs persist since they will automatically filter/corrupt informatiion and ask us to move in two directions at once. To be in the moment would require that no inappropriate beliiefs or emotions are active enough to prevent us from seeing things as they are and to prevent us from taking action.
Dominic
How can the trading persona develop uncorrupted, fenced off? It is being created by the very instrument it wishes to free itself from. Will not the new persona be seen as a threat to survival?
I see similarities in the mental or pyschological requirments say between a trader, a star athlete, or a musician. Is not the goal in all cases to be in the moment without fear or ego. Does a star soccer player develop a separate soccer persona?
I see my problems in trading as the same as the ones in the rest of my life - mostly the same inappropriate beliefs and fears. I do not see the need to develop a separate trading persona. Trading seems to mirror life itself. As my trading improves so do many other aspects of my life.
Is the constant corrupting of efforts to change the result of maintaing subconcious contradictory beliefs or motives? No amount of effort or knowledge will succeed entirely if these beliefs persist since they will automatically filter/corrupt informatiion and ask us to move in two directions at once. To be in the moment would require that no inappropriate beliiefs or emotions are active enough to prevent us from seeing things as they are and to prevent us from taking action.
Dominic
TheBramble
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Hi Dominic. Welcome to t2w. Straight into this thread with your first post. A very impressive move!Dom1 said:
The very point Socrates is making. Which is why it took (takes) so long and requires development of very specific mental habits to achieve.Dom1 said:
That's possibly key. The path can't be to change the 'one' personality that we normally have otherwise those points you make might be valid. I think many people misunderstand the use of the term persona in Socrates' context. (Perhaps I do too!) But I don't think it's being used in it's standard definition of either a dramatic presentation of a character or as in presenting a facade. For it to make sense to me, it has to be a complete and independently functioning unit of thought and action. How else could it be? If the trading persona Socrates speaks of is simply another 'part' of the same individual we'd be talking about MPD or Schizophrenia. Neither of which is particularly useful in trading or any other meaningful endeavour.Dom1 said:
I don't know about 'active enough'. I'd go with 'active at all'. And your description is very close to that described by Mark Douglas (Trading in the Zone). From previous posts Socrates has made it is quite clear his concept of time may be slightly different to ours as they currently stand. Trading in 'the moment' or 'the now' I suspect is just the entry level.Dom1 said:
china white
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very impressive posts since i left for mexico about a week ago 
just came back to LaLa land and am leaving south tomorrow again hope all is well - and pls keep up excellent discussion!
just came back to LaLa land and am leaving south tomorrow again hope all is well - and pls keep up excellent discussion!Contamination of Persona
This concept of nurturing duality in to trading is fascinating indeed.I hope at this point in the discussion, that these questions are ok to ask.
When we are in the process of deciding the criteria and directives for the trading persona,a lot of resistance from the ego is recognised in establishing or agreeing.
How do we combat this resistance?Is it just pure self-discipline?
Is it through acceptance and agreement with the ego or without?
In the process of trading with the new Persona
How do we combat contamination of thought that creeps in to the Persona during a trade?
For example being influenced by the outcome of the last trade in taking profit and also in deciding how to manage the trade.
Lastly is the trading persona to maintain total present observation of the current market conditions and not to be influenced by any past action?
For example if the market has made a lower low during the day how does one stop the persona in staging an opinion and not staying with a view that the market could test the low.
My apology if these questions are not appropriate but thanks all for constructing a fascinating thread.
Regards Llew
This concept of nurturing duality in to trading is fascinating indeed.I hope at this point in the discussion, that these questions are ok to ask.
When we are in the process of deciding the criteria and directives for the trading persona,a lot of resistance from the ego is recognised in establishing or agreeing.
How do we combat this resistance?Is it just pure self-discipline?
Is it through acceptance and agreement with the ego or without?
In the process of trading with the new Persona
How do we combat contamination of thought that creeps in to the Persona during a trade?
For example being influenced by the outcome of the last trade in taking profit and also in deciding how to manage the trade.
Lastly is the trading persona to maintain total present observation of the current market conditions and not to be influenced by any past action?
For example if the market has made a lower low during the day how does one stop the persona in staging an opinion and not staying with a view that the market could test the low.
My apology if these questions are not appropriate but thanks all for constructing a fascinating thread.
Regards Llew
dc2000
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Socrates
I thought the question was simple enough but I will make it easier.
I am not asking of the alternate persona that you are teaching here, merely how it is that you trade.
Do You
A: trade every day be it shares, indices or FX
B: trade several times per month or year and trend follow
C: buy and hold shares as an investment vehicle for long periods
I thought the question was simple enough but I will make it easier.
I am not asking of the alternate persona that you are teaching here, merely how it is that you trade.
Do You
A: trade every day be it shares, indices or FX
B: trade several times per month or year and trend follow
C: buy and hold shares as an investment vehicle for long periods
TheBramble
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dc2000 said:
DC, I'm sure you're as interested as we all are in understanding Socrates' methods, but the answers to the questions you ask have already been given. An extract from Socrates t2w Public Profile below.
Trading Style: - long term investor
List of Markets Traded: - US STOCKS, FUTURES
What method do you use to Trade?: - POSITIONAL
You can get this info on any t2w member (providing they have given it of course) by simply clicking on their nick and choosing 'view public profile'.
Alternatively you could have just PM'd him (or anyone else you're interested in).
HTH
SOCRATES
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Perhaps this is too strong....but fact.
The first requirement is Acceptance.
You first have to accept you need to create a separate persona to deal with this.
Now I am obliged to talk in detail about a topic many will find unpleasant and perhaps distasteful, but bear with me because it is essential. In order to bring to you and highlight to you how the ordinary persona responds to humanistic matters, which because we are human elilcit emotional responses that are potentially upsetting or disturbing.
To understand this, let us use a model. Hypotheticall let us use a train system to illustrate several points. Let us use London Transport. In particular let us use the Tube Network as a model. I will do my best to be as accurate as possible in describing the constraints the management put in place to make it as far as is possible and beyond to render a public utility that may not always be reliable in timekeeping to the minute, but more importantly relilable in terms of operating safety on an ongoing basis, considering they run an excess of 6000 tube trains a day. This is a huge ovrgrown train set.
London Transport operates the London Underground. This is a system of underground
tube trains linking the capital via a series of lines that meet at interchanges and junctions, stations, in other words. The public travel from station to station according to their travel needs. They board the tube trains of their choice and need at platforms. London Transport
takes great pains to ensure the safety of their passengers, I am sure no conceivable potential danger is left unattended to either by way of railings, barriers, flashing lights,
loudspeaker announcements, warning notices, signs, painted lines, stewardship,
close circuit TV, provision of non slip surfaces where and if appropriate, handrails, soft contours, mirrors, the list is exhaustive. The object is to get people to travel in safety
from A to B. This is normal, it deals with the preservation of life, in parallel with delivering a
public service.
However there is the occasional passenger determined to commit suicide. This passenger will deliberately step or jump in front of an approaching train. In one case someone I knew
who was very ill chose to sit on the rails, and waited for the train to approach at full tilt from round a bend, knowing the driver would not be able to stop in time. These are not accidents,
although accidents can occur when people slip or fall or are crushed or pushed or lose their balance too close to the edges of platforms. Someone has to deal with this.
The drivers who experience a suicide are traumatised . They are given statutory time off and counselling. Many continue as drivers. Some are so overwhelmed by the experience that
they do not go back to driving. This occurs because they are disabled at a humanistic level.
This is understandable, it is a horrendous experience to have someone jump in front of a train you are driving.
But who clears up the mess ? I am going to tell you the following, publicly, in order to force you to make contact with your humanity and for you to experience your humanistic response.
Special crews in protective clothing, goggles, rubber gloves, rubber boots, and headcaps are sent in after the area is cordoned off and the platform entirely cleared of passengers and staff. Are you beginning to feel uneasy ? The train now has to be lifted hydrulically for the crews to be able to get under it. What they now encounter is like Dante's Inferno. They have to pick up every single bit of human matter by hand and put it into plastic bags because this now has to be handed to the Coroner.
Are you now beginning to feel queesy ? If you are it is because your humanity is putting you in touch with your awareness that you are alive but the victim is dead. To accentuate the limitations of your humanity I will tell you more. These crews don't normally just pick up a corpse. They have to literally prise and scrape bits of another humn being off normally inaccesible places from underneath a train. Bits get entangled in piping, between moving
parts, in junctions, between frame members, inside wheels, in and around spings, cushions, and so on. The crews are required to make detailed and exhaustive systematic
searches for the smallest fragments of tissue. Grisly, isn't it, and it gets worse, because there are splashes of blood and matter everywhere, under the train, on the rails, between the rails on the wall, everywhere you can aimagine and not imagine. Think about this for a few seconds and imagine yourself to be there. Horrndous is it not ?
Let us now turn our attention to the difference in attitude between the driver and the crew.
The driver is a driver. In order to drive the train he has to drive it. He does not need to create a persona to deal with his work.
The crew work together as a crew to do a most unpleasant job. But they are individuals, who are for the purpose of the excercise obligated to work a team in order to get this nasty mission completed as quickly and efficiently and as quietly as possible to the exclusion of anyone whose presence is not crucial to the mission, These individuals cannot afford to allow their humanity to get in the way, otherwise they would be sick, or suffer recurring nightmares or other inabilities that would prevent them from actually doing the job they are paid to do.
They have to force themselves to develop a very specific mindset in order to allow them to cope with this horror and retain their humanity. They cannot take this horror home to their families, and themselves. They have to create a PERSONA specifically to deal with their daily tasks. This persona that they are obligated to create is very different to the one they OCCUPY in their ordinary family life and so on. This persona is in large measure artificial but real to them when they inhabit (occupy) it . The crew have to find both individually and collectively a way of dealing with the horror. So they may resort to making jokes about what they see at the scene.
They are not being cruel, amoral, indecent, peverse, they are occupying a specific persona specially constructed to cope with a scenario that they would not be able to cope with if they did not take this precaution, otherwise they would need counselling all the time and time off everytime they scraped flesh off the rails with shovels as if ie were steak. They can not allow one persona to invade the other's domain.
If they did they would not be able to carry on. If and when they allow this to happen they can no longer continue to do it. Do not take my word for this. Ask anyone who does work in an arena that threatens their humanity, or at least threatens their humanistic values. They all have to create personas. Ask these questions, of Firemen, Ambulance Drivers, Rescue Crews, Undertakers, Cemetry Workers, Mortuary Staff, Porters in Hospitals, Surgeons,
Nursing Staff, Motorway Police, Accident and Emergency Personnel, Police Officers, Military Personnel, indeed anyone who has to step outside the boundaries created by their own humanity and you will, if you can get them to talk about it tell you they all have to create separate personas.
If this persona is not created THAT is the threat to survival.
Dom1 said:
The first requirement is Acceptance.
You first have to accept you need to create a separate persona to deal with this.
Now I am obliged to talk in detail about a topic many will find unpleasant and perhaps distasteful, but bear with me because it is essential. In order to bring to you and highlight to you how the ordinary persona responds to humanistic matters, which because we are human elilcit emotional responses that are potentially upsetting or disturbing.
To understand this, let us use a model. Hypotheticall let us use a train system to illustrate several points. Let us use London Transport. In particular let us use the Tube Network as a model. I will do my best to be as accurate as possible in describing the constraints the management put in place to make it as far as is possible and beyond to render a public utility that may not always be reliable in timekeeping to the minute, but more importantly relilable in terms of operating safety on an ongoing basis, considering they run an excess of 6000 tube trains a day. This is a huge ovrgrown train set.
London Transport operates the London Underground. This is a system of underground
tube trains linking the capital via a series of lines that meet at interchanges and junctions, stations, in other words. The public travel from station to station according to their travel needs. They board the tube trains of their choice and need at platforms. London Transport
takes great pains to ensure the safety of their passengers, I am sure no conceivable potential danger is left unattended to either by way of railings, barriers, flashing lights,
loudspeaker announcements, warning notices, signs, painted lines, stewardship,
close circuit TV, provision of non slip surfaces where and if appropriate, handrails, soft contours, mirrors, the list is exhaustive. The object is to get people to travel in safety
from A to B. This is normal, it deals with the preservation of life, in parallel with delivering a
public service.
However there is the occasional passenger determined to commit suicide. This passenger will deliberately step or jump in front of an approaching train. In one case someone I knew
who was very ill chose to sit on the rails, and waited for the train to approach at full tilt from round a bend, knowing the driver would not be able to stop in time. These are not accidents,
although accidents can occur when people slip or fall or are crushed or pushed or lose their balance too close to the edges of platforms. Someone has to deal with this.
The drivers who experience a suicide are traumatised . They are given statutory time off and counselling. Many continue as drivers. Some are so overwhelmed by the experience that
they do not go back to driving. This occurs because they are disabled at a humanistic level.
This is understandable, it is a horrendous experience to have someone jump in front of a train you are driving.
But who clears up the mess ? I am going to tell you the following, publicly, in order to force you to make contact with your humanity and for you to experience your humanistic response.
Special crews in protective clothing, goggles, rubber gloves, rubber boots, and headcaps are sent in after the area is cordoned off and the platform entirely cleared of passengers and staff. Are you beginning to feel uneasy ? The train now has to be lifted hydrulically for the crews to be able to get under it. What they now encounter is like Dante's Inferno. They have to pick up every single bit of human matter by hand and put it into plastic bags because this now has to be handed to the Coroner.
Are you now beginning to feel queesy ? If you are it is because your humanity is putting you in touch with your awareness that you are alive but the victim is dead. To accentuate the limitations of your humanity I will tell you more. These crews don't normally just pick up a corpse. They have to literally prise and scrape bits of another humn being off normally inaccesible places from underneath a train. Bits get entangled in piping, between moving
parts, in junctions, between frame members, inside wheels, in and around spings, cushions, and so on. The crews are required to make detailed and exhaustive systematic
searches for the smallest fragments of tissue. Grisly, isn't it, and it gets worse, because there are splashes of blood and matter everywhere, under the train, on the rails, between the rails on the wall, everywhere you can aimagine and not imagine. Think about this for a few seconds and imagine yourself to be there. Horrndous is it not ?
Let us now turn our attention to the difference in attitude between the driver and the crew.
The driver is a driver. In order to drive the train he has to drive it. He does not need to create a persona to deal with his work.
The crew work together as a crew to do a most unpleasant job. But they are individuals, who are for the purpose of the excercise obligated to work a team in order to get this nasty mission completed as quickly and efficiently and as quietly as possible to the exclusion of anyone whose presence is not crucial to the mission, These individuals cannot afford to allow their humanity to get in the way, otherwise they would be sick, or suffer recurring nightmares or other inabilities that would prevent them from actually doing the job they are paid to do.
They have to force themselves to develop a very specific mindset in order to allow them to cope with this horror and retain their humanity. They cannot take this horror home to their families, and themselves. They have to create a PERSONA specifically to deal with their daily tasks. This persona that they are obligated to create is very different to the one they OCCUPY in their ordinary family life and so on. This persona is in large measure artificial but real to them when they inhabit (occupy) it . The crew have to find both individually and collectively a way of dealing with the horror. So they may resort to making jokes about what they see at the scene.
They are not being cruel, amoral, indecent, peverse, they are occupying a specific persona specially constructed to cope with a scenario that they would not be able to cope with if they did not take this precaution, otherwise they would need counselling all the time and time off everytime they scraped flesh off the rails with shovels as if ie were steak. They can not allow one persona to invade the other's domain.
If they did they would not be able to carry on. If and when they allow this to happen they can no longer continue to do it. Do not take my word for this. Ask anyone who does work in an arena that threatens their humanity, or at least threatens their humanistic values. They all have to create personas. Ask these questions, of Firemen, Ambulance Drivers, Rescue Crews, Undertakers, Cemetry Workers, Mortuary Staff, Porters in Hospitals, Surgeons,
Nursing Staff, Motorway Police, Accident and Emergency Personnel, Police Officers, Military Personnel, indeed anyone who has to step outside the boundaries created by their own humanity and you will, if you can get them to talk about it tell you they all have to create separate personas.
If this persona is not created THAT is the threat to survival.
SOCRATES
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Ah ! And by the way, all these people who undertake these jobs have to be trained.
They have to undergo training.
Training means that they cannot do what they like or as they please , as they would if
they were left to their own devices. Here they are required to fulfil certain duties.
They have to be trained, they have to be moulded to the discipline in hand.
And then they have to have the right character. If they do not have the right chatacter
to be able to undertake these missions they cannot then create the appropriate separate
persona these jobs require. Trading seems different because it is abstract.
But the fact that it is abstract does not neccesarily make it less real.
Therefore you may have difficulty in getting to grips with what is an abstract concept.
I hope this will help you to get some grip of what you are in, or aspire to be in.
They have to undergo training.
Training means that they cannot do what they like or as they please , as they would if
they were left to their own devices. Here they are required to fulfil certain duties.
They have to be trained, they have to be moulded to the discipline in hand.
And then they have to have the right character. If they do not have the right chatacter
to be able to undertake these missions they cannot then create the appropriate separate
persona these jobs require. Trading seems different because it is abstract.
But the fact that it is abstract does not neccesarily make it less real.
Therefore you may have difficulty in getting to grips with what is an abstract concept.
I hope this will help you to get some grip of what you are in, or aspire to be in.
TheBramble
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So they (we) build the necessary persona through training and experience. But what of the character?
If you were setting out to recruit a new member of the LT crew doing this grisly, but unfortunately necessary work, presumably there would be in place an appropriate appraisal and profiling procedure to ensure money, time & effort weren't wasted on training inappropriate personnel or worse still - letting trained, but unsuitable candidates out into the field as it were.
Although more difficult for an abstract art such as trading, I presume there is a parallel 'appraisal and profiling' facility? Or is this, where we're at right at this moment in time, the cutting edge?
If you were setting out to recruit a new member of the LT crew doing this grisly, but unfortunately necessary work, presumably there would be in place an appropriate appraisal and profiling procedure to ensure money, time & effort weren't wasted on training inappropriate personnel or worse still - letting trained, but unsuitable candidates out into the field as it were.
Although more difficult for an abstract art such as trading, I presume there is a parallel 'appraisal and profiling' facility? Or is this, where we're at right at this moment in time, the cutting edge?
F
ford
Full force of the reality hits home
It is the lesson's such as these that really make's the reality hit home about the fundamental requirement of developing a new persona. At first, the abstract concept of creating a persona may have sounded arcane and a waste of time, but when you consider a practical example's such as this, or the one I was thinking of which was a soldier in a War zone, I believe you begin to realise the value of what is being said by SOCRATES and I hopefully have _the_ realisation's he has been talking of.
It is so patently obvious that I can not believe I did not recognise it in the first place. Consider, one would be branded as ludicross to suggest that an ordinary citizen could be dumped into a War zone, be expected to kill another human, to be able to filter out the scream's of pain and sight's of carnage, and be able to go 'over the top' or whatever it is they do these days without thinking, fearing, or caring for their own safety.
No, instead the reality is that month's before these killing machines enter a battlefield they are conditioned, day in day out at boot camp by drill instructors. (Apologies I only know of boot camp from the movie Full metal jacket, by Kubric, though it's quite obvious why the first half of the film is devoted to the brutality of it) Much of which to the ordinary observer is completely pointless, unproductive and brutal in it's process. Wake up at 5 am, make bed, shine shoes, shave head, stand to attention, chant songs, boring meals that are far and few in between, hours and hours of exercise that push the body to it's limit's, constant belittlement and abuse that wears down any smug attitude.
To the army, these aren't people, they are machines. What good is a caring so and so, a cocky git, an unattentive idiot or a fat unhealthy person on a battlefield? Absolutely none.
What is required of the soldier is to take orders without question and not hesitate when the time come's to carry out their orders. And this is accomplished by the process at boot camp, by doing thing's such as singing songs of the 'beloved core', because to the Army, there is no individual, there is no humanity, there is just the core.
What one see's in the rest of the film is hard cold men, men who belittle death and laugh at it, this, I presume, is how they deal with it. But what I find interesting and I think relevent too, is the end of the movie, when the leader of the lost group, 'Cowboy', loses it, he becomes emotional, and he pays the price. Subsequently he is shot by a Viet Cong sniper through a gap in the wall, where he foolishly stood while using the radio. I'm not suggesting this is what Kubric aimed for in this scene, but I thought it interesting how when he regained his humanity he paid the price. Prior to this, he had actually been very cold hearted when his companion '8ball' was shot and tortured by the sniper in order to draw out the men, but he ordered the medic not to go, who had been overcome by emotion, yet he disobyed the order, and he too was specifically shot in places to inflict maximum pain, immobility yet enough to keep him alive to lure out the rest.
Hopefully anyone else who has seen the movie will understand where I'm coming from, those that haven't apologies! But I think it's a rather good example of how the humanity of people in a situation where it is desperately not needed stops some people in various careers or situations from carrying out a very hard task.
It is the lesson's such as these that really make's the reality hit home about the fundamental requirement of developing a new persona. At first, the abstract concept of creating a persona may have sounded arcane and a waste of time, but when you consider a practical example's such as this, or the one I was thinking of which was a soldier in a War zone, I believe you begin to realise the value of what is being said by SOCRATES and I hopefully have _the_ realisation's he has been talking of.
It is so patently obvious that I can not believe I did not recognise it in the first place. Consider, one would be branded as ludicross to suggest that an ordinary citizen could be dumped into a War zone, be expected to kill another human, to be able to filter out the scream's of pain and sight's of carnage, and be able to go 'over the top' or whatever it is they do these days without thinking, fearing, or caring for their own safety.
No, instead the reality is that month's before these killing machines enter a battlefield they are conditioned, day in day out at boot camp by drill instructors. (Apologies I only know of boot camp from the movie Full metal jacket, by Kubric, though it's quite obvious why the first half of the film is devoted to the brutality of it) Much of which to the ordinary observer is completely pointless, unproductive and brutal in it's process. Wake up at 5 am, make bed, shine shoes, shave head, stand to attention, chant songs, boring meals that are far and few in between, hours and hours of exercise that push the body to it's limit's, constant belittlement and abuse that wears down any smug attitude.
To the army, these aren't people, they are machines. What good is a caring so and so, a cocky git, an unattentive idiot or a fat unhealthy person on a battlefield? Absolutely none.
What is required of the soldier is to take orders without question and not hesitate when the time come's to carry out their orders. And this is accomplished by the process at boot camp, by doing thing's such as singing songs of the 'beloved core', because to the Army, there is no individual, there is no humanity, there is just the core.
What one see's in the rest of the film is hard cold men, men who belittle death and laugh at it, this, I presume, is how they deal with it. But what I find interesting and I think relevent too, is the end of the movie, when the leader of the lost group, 'Cowboy', loses it, he becomes emotional, and he pays the price. Subsequently he is shot by a Viet Cong sniper through a gap in the wall, where he foolishly stood while using the radio. I'm not suggesting this is what Kubric aimed for in this scene, but I thought it interesting how when he regained his humanity he paid the price. Prior to this, he had actually been very cold hearted when his companion '8ball' was shot and tortured by the sniper in order to draw out the men, but he ordered the medic not to go, who had been overcome by emotion, yet he disobyed the order, and he too was specifically shot in places to inflict maximum pain, immobility yet enough to keep him alive to lure out the rest.
Hopefully anyone else who has seen the movie will understand where I'm coming from, those that haven't apologies! But I think it's a rather good example of how the humanity of people in a situation where it is desperately not needed stops some people in various careers or situations from carrying out a very hard task.
dc2000
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I don't know about the London crew, but those that are based at the crewe works are taken from the regular rolling stock refurb team on a voluntary basis they are also allowed time off after clean up and as you say have developed an alternate persona to deal with the trauma. But there is a danger, this would be more apparant in ford's battlefield example, the alternate persona can take over and actively seek that for which it was developed. Mundane life versus the thrill of the kill.
By creating a complex multiple persona you are infact building in instability.
In trading if you lose the fear then you will lose the inbuilt survival that you need to protect your capital without this you are no more than a compulsive gambler.
By creating a complex multiple persona you are infact building in instability.
In trading if you lose the fear then you will lose the inbuilt survival that you need to protect your capital without this you are no more than a compulsive gambler.
TheBramble
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I'm stunned. Your making a system available to other t2w members on a commercial basis - and yet you still feel fear when you trade? Do you feel this fear when you trade the system you're selling?dc2000 said:
You protect your capital through sound risk & money management - not fear. If fear is genuinely a part of your trading style I can understand why compulsive gambling occurs to you as something you'd rather not consider.
Although Socrates' advanced trading development issues are extremely important, I feel you might want to address the more basic traders' problems first.
SoupDragon
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either way I guess one has to question the fact that if one needs a persona to do a particular job....that would highlight the fact that not everyone can do the job due to the inability to develop a persona. Not everyone can be a Officer in the marines, a doctor in A and E and thus is it the same for a trader?
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