The end of the EU

The eu cannot work, for the simple fact the peoples of europe do not want a megastate, specifically the brits the fins too, if we had a vote we would be out tomorrow, the fact is we won't get a vote, so there will be unrest.

The other reason is, you can remove the idea of nations, but countries act in their own interest, thats all these european summits have been, nations supposed to be under this "european" umbrella, pulling in different directions to get the best deal, to get the most money from the pot, how can a system where all the constituents fight giving it no cohesive voice, anyone thinking that europe can work, when even the politicians pushing it can't manage to be united.

Furthermore i think the euro is unfair, why should the germans have to bail out insolvent spanish banks, because thats what they are isn't it? greek banks are, spain is a wreck of a country, italy too, and mr hollande around the corner driving the french wagon into bailout station.

The truth of all the wests problems is this, we cannot afford our entitlement culture, i saw a women the other day ask "why should i work when I'm working 40 hrs a week, I'm only 6£ better off than with benefit"
Simple fact, morality aside. she shouldn't, there is no reason for her to, if she can get it free, without labour, who here would take that trade? 40 hours a week, or nothing? + money
thats our problem when benefit is well paying enough to rival salaries, why even work?
we need to cut all these things, or we will be like the PIGS, fortunately our banks are slightly better than theirs, but not by much.

the west needs to work damn well hard, and learn to save money for things, unfortunately this might crash china in the meantime.
 
Everyone is in the Union for their own interests. It would not exist if that were not the case. There is a lot to be said for it but it has been badly put together and is a great shame.

Even Germany needs a weak currency so that it can sell abroad. The German mark made their stuff too expnsive and the Euro has helped them a lot, in that respect. They, still, have that problem, otherwise they would have left long ago.

I am British, but live in Spain. My feelings are mixed but I would never leave because these are great people and have been very good to me. They re not, in the slightest, greedy but have been misled by stupid leaders and unscruplous bankers.

In the light of Barclays, just this week, does not that sound familiar? Why, then, is there so much "calling the kettle black" philosophy on this thread when one's own backyard is full of creepy-crawlies?
 
Splitlink said:
Even Germany needs a weak currency so that it can sell abroad. The German mark made their stuff too expnsive and the Euro has helped them a lot, in that respect. They, still, have that problem, otherwise they would have left long ago.
Click to expand...

I think you have your logic a little mixed up there Split. You have bought into the idiotic Government propaganda that a weak currency helps exporters. In another thread you talked about the evils of Government inflation and now you think Germany needs a weak currency? You can't have your cake and eat it too.
 
Splitlink said:
Everyone is in the Union for their own interests.?
Click to expand...

Oh so true. And every member has his interests too. So while they are topping up their own bank accounts the whole fiasco unfolds.

Years ago it was made clear to the politicians that their best interests of being promoted lay in being helpful to the nation and working hard for others, not in their own selfish greedy interests.


I lay the blame largely on America's lack of public service ideals. Their " rugged individualism " is just a cover by the greedy p*igs at the top.
 
You can't lay the blme on the Americans, or anyone else but, unfortunately, that is what you do. We are, all,fast learners and, usually, the masters learned their trade in a new nation, where the legislation was non-existent. Europe has developed as one, potentially, new nation and, what is worse, a new nation in a hurry. That is why Greece and others have been able to bend the rules. There is so much to do before we begin to think of the possibilitires of one currency. Now it is, possibly, too late.

But, I repeat, this is a great shame, more so because, if it does break up I can't see it being put together again.
 
new_trader said:
As usual, you have things exactly backwards. The people at the top are socialists, Obama being CHIEF SOCIALIST. America was built on rugged individualism and Socialist policies are slowly destroying it all.

Obama: Rugged Individualism, Capitalism and Small Government Don't Work - YouTube
Click to expand...


My take on it is that it is the free unregulated market coupled with individualists setting their own rules on pay and bonuses that lies at the root of our evils. In the name of globalisation and all consuming capitalism, waging wars too in the name of national interest that is taking the system down.

Where/what are the socialist policies in all this debt?

Look at the budgets and see what/whom has been consuming the greatest amount and I think you'll find NASA and Pentagon high up on that list.


To suggest we need more liberal markets in all this melt down of the financial sector is absolutely crazy.
 
Atilla said:
My take on it is that it is the free unregulated market coupled with individualists setting their own rules on pay and bonuses that lies at the root of our evils.
Click to expand...

😀 You are so right and, on the subject of setting one's own rules, let us include Barclays fixing of Libors rates. A great socialist bunch we have , there! I suppose, that we could extend Pat's argument and say, in Spain, that it is the City of London's culture that has spread over here. All nonsense, of course, and to get back to something that I have mentioned before, until more than 40% of the electorate vote, very little will change because it is a lack of interest that is the root cause that lets the few get away with robbery.
 
I think that there are 2 major forces in the current world and neither is helping much.

The right as Atilla correctly says is Gordon Gecko type selfish greed

and the other leftie socialism/communism ( not the oriental variety ) that was and still is at the heart of their black bag policy of ruining capitalism by smashing the banking system.

Britain and the other crapocracies lurch from one to the other and the world's financial problems just don't get sorted out. The 2 groups are happy to kick the problem down the road. And why ?

Because they both think they are going to emerge from the mess as the unrivalled winners and they will be able to blame the losers.
 
new_trader said:
I think you have your logic a little mixed up there Split. You have bought into the idiotic Government propaganda that a weak currency helps exporters. In another thread you talked about the evils of Government inflation and now you think Germany needs a weak currency? You can't have your cake and eat it too.
Click to expand...

Let's go back to 1992 when the UK had to leave the snake. When The UK did that things got better, to the extent it decided that the currency was best left on its own. Why? Because it was weak and could compete. Germany was a currency that was the strongest in the snake and decided differently. On its own it would be at a serious disadvantage to its competitors. Eight years later, the Euro was formed. Germany, by itself, is such a powerhouse that it has to dilute its currency so as to sell its products. What it should have done was to be more carefull in picking its partners. By allowing 17 members it was taking on too much responsibility. The debt created by its partners has been unregulated and is the cause of the inflationary pressure.

I wonder what the outcome would have been if Germany had done the same as China and pegged its currency at $1.25?

Debt always causes inflation and is quite different. It is money printed by governments without the economic growth that should accompany it. The US was a world power and could do it because everyone trusted and wanted dollars. Now, the situation is not the same.

This is not a matter of "idiotic" thinking on the part of government. It is a matter of "idiotic" thinking on the part of those who could see it and, yet, did nothing about it, This was coming and no one, let alone EU, wanted to see it and it seems to me that Europe is getting the stick for what is everyone's problem.
 
Splitlink said:
Let's go back to 1992 when the UK had to leave the snake. When The UK did that things got better, to the extent it decided that the currency was best left on its own. Why? Because it was weak and could compete. Germany was a currency that was the strongest in the snake and decided differently. On its own it would be at a serious disadvantage to its competitors. Eight years later, the Euro was formed. Germany, by itself, is such a powerhouse that it has to dilute its currency so as to sell its products. What it should have done was to be more carefull in picking its partners. By allowing 17 members it was taking on too much responsibility. The debt created by its partners has been unregulated and is the cause of the inflationary pressure.

I wonder what the outcome would have been if Germany had done the same as China and pegged its currency at $1.25?

Debt always causes inflation and is quite different. It is money printed by governments without the economic growth that should accompany it. The US was a world power and could do it because everyone trusted and wanted dollars. Now, the situation is not the same.

This is not a matter of "idiotic" thinking on the part of government. It is a matter of "idiotic" thinking on the part of those who could see it and, yet, did nothing about it, This was coming and no one, let alone EU, wanted to see it and it seems to me that Europe is getting the stick for what is everyone's problem.
Click to expand...

PRODUCTIVITY makes a country competitive, not the value of its currency. Money is a unit of account, a medium of exchange. It shouldn't be fiddled with, especially not by Central planners who are the least competent to do anything right.

Debt always causes inflation? Is this what they teach in English economics classes? No wonder the country has become a pathetic, unproductive, over-indebted welfare state.
 
Pat494 said:
I think that there are 2 major forces in the current world and neither is helping much.

The right as Atilla correctly says is Gordon Gecko type selfish greed
Click to expand...

Utter baseless emotive spurious nonsense. What more can you expect if you are talking Atillanomics. When will you finally understand that greed is NOT conducive nor a prerequisite or precondition for success. Bill Gates didn't get rich because he is greedy. Mark Zucherburg didn't become successful because he is greedy. Alan Sugar isn't a shrewd businessman because he is greedy...FFS 🙄
 
new_trader said:
Utter baseless emotive spurious nonsense. What more can you expect if you are talking Atillanomics. When will you finally understand that greed is NOT conducive nor a prerequisite or precondition for success. Bill Gates didn't get rich because he is greedy. Mark Zucherburg didn't become successful because he is greedy. Alan Sugar isn't a shrewd businessman because he is greedy...FFS 🙄
Click to expand...

Good ole NT - flies off the handle completely in the wrong direction as ever !

I never said greed contributed 1 iota to success.
One can however be successful AND greedy. Dear oh dear.............🙄

Wish he would hurry up and find his other braincell.
 
Pat494 said:
Good ole NT - flies off the handle completely in the wrong direction as ever !

I never said greed contributed 1 iota to success.
One can however be successful AND greedy. Dear oh dear.............🙄

Wish he would hurry up and find his other braincell.
Click to expand...

Ok then genius, how does a greedy successful person cause problems for the economy?
 
new_trader said:
PRODUCTIVITY makes a country competitive, not the value of its currency. Money is a unit of account, a medium of exchange. It shouldn't be fiddled with, especially not by Central planners who are the least competent to do anything right.
Click to expand...

Sorry, if I misled because, of the various sides to this debate, yours is the one that I agree with most.

Because of Germany's productivity, her currency got strong and she had to find a solution.The solution was to join up with weaker currencies, but not with 17! I wonder why she did not stick with the original "snake" members?


Debt always causes inflation? Is this what they teach in English economics classes? No wonder the country has become a pathetic, unproductive, over-indebted welfare state.
Click to expand...

You are talking about the UK, I suppose? Debt will cause inflation if it is not paid off. Why does a bus driver, who earned 7 pounds per week, when I was a kid ,want 500, now? Why is the house that he bought for 1300 pounds in 1946 cost 350,000 now?
 
Splitlink said:
You are talking about the UK, I suppose? Debt will cause inflation if it is not paid off.
Click to expand...

If this was the case, Central Planners wouldn't have created the deflation boogeyman in response to the financial crisis. Growth of credit and Expansion of the money supply causes inflation. This isn't the same as debt itself. If I save £1000 and instead of spending it, I sacrifice consumption and lend that £1000 to you, no new money has been created even though you are now in debt to me. If you now sell your labour or become productive in another way and earn £1000 and pay it back to me, again, no new money has been created. If you don't pay the debt back, I am down £1000 and you are up £1000 but the net change is still zero.

Splitlink said:
Why does a bus driver, who earned 7 pounds per week, when I was a kid ,want 500, now? Why is the house that he bought for 1300 pounds in 1946 cost 350,000 now?
Click to expand...

That is easily explained. Growth in credit but especially the expansion of the money supply. When the Government pays back its debt it doesn't repay if all from tax revenues or from productivity, it creates money out of thin air via the Central Bank. That is inflationary.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Crap Buddist
Greedy UKIP MEP Tom Wise Confesses to Corruption
Replies
2
Views
2K
Crap Buddist
Crap Buddist
B
Non-EU regulated brokers
Replies
5
Views
1K
BenFoXX
B
H
The EU intends to adjust the deficit reduction targets
Replies
0
Views
1K
HPCforex
H
T
The Eurozone – Post Apocalypse
2
Replies
31
Views
5K
neil
neil
S
Is Europe the next Japan?
Replies
9
Views
4K
2468steve
2
Back
Top