I think many people are geting it wrong on plaving orders.
there are 2 types of execution offerd by brokers.
1. gauranteed stop: here you just place order to sell 2 pips below the lowest bid.
2. non-guaranteed sopt: here your order is active once, the price offer (not bid) reaches your stop and at that moment, your sell roder is excuted at the current bid (which is usualyl 3 pips lower) and hence the slippage.
To counter 2nd situation, one should place order to sell at (lowest bid of signal candle) - 2 pips + 3 pips (whatever the GBPUSD spread ofeferd by ur broker). Then you wil not get any slippage.
How did youget +52 on a Sell order this morning ?
Shorting from above the MA on an extended downtrend is a classic move ,where NT can
fall down a little is on timing and this morning was a classic example . I entered early
on the 6.00am candle and was happy to exit on the 8.00am candle for 40 pips - this punt
was not Net Trap but just a classic move (some call it a 'rubber band trade').I am however
grateful that NT got me and the computer up early otherwise I'd have missed a trade with a high probability of profit.
Hope you all did ok this morning.
fall down a little is on timing and this morning was a classic example . I entered early
on the 6.00am candle and was happy to exit on the 8.00am candle for 40 pips - this punt
was not Net Trap but just a classic move (some call it a 'rubber band trade').I am however
grateful that NT got me and the computer up early otherwise I'd have missed a trade with a high probability of profit.
Hope you all did ok this morning.
Closed my original entry @ 1.4430 at -7 and then re-opened @ 1.4458.
No I entered at 14433, I took the IG chart low and took off 2 pips.
4th day on this system after starting last week with a cluster of 3 -ve days. Woke up groggy today and had to bounce the router modem. After checking the charts placed a sell at 14425 - then realised my mistake for taking the wrong number off the chart (took the MA number!) - told you I was groggy!. Looked to be a sell at 14433 but saw some one say it was 14436 on the forum after my initial cockup. So placed at 14436 with the usual 30/50 limits.
Extremely lucky as I realised I wouldn't be anywhere where I could close out my order at 8:30 so at 8:14 I closed to be what was 14390.7. +45.3! This is more luck than anything and will be noted on my journal - I need to follow the system and take it as it is without my own judgement out until I am much more experienced.
Extremely lucky as I realised I wouldn't be anywhere where I could close out my order at 8:30 so at 8:14 I closed to be what was 14390.7. +45.3! This is more luck than anything and will be noted on my journal - I need to follow the system and take it as it is without my own judgement out until I am much more experienced.
peterf1966
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Is it great minds (or fools?) think alike?
This morning, I was looking at the last few candles and saw recent highs around our stop level and placed stop at 35, on a 'just in case' basis. (I am free betting with the ETX offer till 23rd June, so to quote Tom Cruise - sometimes you just gotta say'WTF')
On ETX I just went in -2 at 6.30 at 14335, but that is MID price, and high was 14462, so technically I didn't need the extra 5, but it was close.
I could also see some resistance at only about 10 below entry, so I was not at all hopeful for a 50 pipper. Because I kept my eye on it today (working anyway) I bottled at that 14325 level for +10. Of course exactly as per Friday, it then carries on down, and like Friday, the RSI indicator got to around 30, so I dived back in for a buy and got another 18 on the bounce.
No, not Net Trap, just as Calviceps said, but it's Net Trap gets me up, so I'll call it Net Trap plus discretion.
Hope you all did ok this morning.
Seems to have been a very odd day - some getting stopped out whilst others survived (just) to bounce back into profit zone... In the very short time I have had NT its flaws are very apparent... Maybe it is just a little too simple and the timed exit strategy really only makes sense if you are severely restricted time wise... Better to use price action/candles to determine a later exit or an earlier exit whichever is appropriate... Also you would have to be very brave to enter Buys near range high and sells near range low as there will be strong resistance here... Yet under NT these trades are given the thumbs up!
I cannot argue - NT has provided good short term past results - but I do remain skeptical that NT is flexible enough to continue providing those results...
Just my thoughts....
Great comment Peter
widening stops will get you stopped out less often but when you do - bigger loss!
The biggest room for improvement is a better entry setup - entering on the NT setup criteria is very alien to me and somewhat worrying... The indicator used is way too laggy to provide accurate short term trend indications (remember we are trading within a 2 hour window)... It could be used to backup analysis that is more appropriate to the timeframe... For example using candle formations/RSI - coupled with average daily range and even fib levels
- But of course, this is well outside NT and one has to say that if the system requires that amount of tweaking then the original concept becomes a rather expensive alarm clock... ... But if NT has fired up the enthusiasm then it does have value...goldfinger777
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Good stuff! I still went for a 30pt stop today but the only reason I wasn't stopped out is because I opened my trade immediately at 6:30, rather than placing an "order to open". I'm certainly beginning to wonder whether the NT "order to open" approach is favourable on average, because sometimes when buying and with slippage as well we can lose out on 10 precious points!
I think that NT is a great starting point but I'm very keen to build up a good history of data so that I can start tweaking
mark120169
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Just when I thought I was getting to grips with Spreadbetting another spanner in the works that cost me (and many other newbies I guess using IG -30 pips today) as the book does not discuss the above at all for non limited risk account holders.
Got the entry correct 14435.8 (round down as RH suggests) 14435 - 2 = 14433. Limit 50 @ 14383, stop 30 @ 14463. All good to go. All off the bid chart as in the book. So I leave the bid chart running and come back to look every 1/2 hour or so. 7am all ok.
But @ 7.30am I saw I got stopped out. Checking the chart the high was @ 7.03am and was 14460.6 so I was like WTF thats. 2.4 pips away from stop why have they stopped me out.
Reading above and talking to IG on a sell order on a normal stop the stop is triggered by the Ask price, not the bid price. Check the Ask price chart @ 7.03 and the high was 14463.1 hence we got stopped out..............how cruel was that.
What annoys me is the book makes no reference to this and that as you do everything off the "bid" chart I assumed all stops would work out exactly +/- 30. But No, effectively on a short sell order you only have a "real" stop of around -27 from your entry price!!
So I now see two choices (ignoring a gaurentted stop as that costs an extra 3 pip spread anyway).
A) on a sell order set a stop @ 33 to give an effective net 30 stop off the bid entry price set as per the book.
B) As Bomb suggested rather than -2 on a sell order use + 1 for entry price instead ( -2 + 3 = +1) to adjust the whole thing.
As I think RH has it correct with -2 off a sell to only get in if trend continues down I'm going for option A in future and setting a sell stop @ 33 rather than 30.
Now to figure out if the reverse is true for a buy order? Anyone? Maybe I will wait until I get the same issue with a Buy before I tinker with that stop.
Hopping mad about this though as he never explained the reality of the situation thus giving you the choice to adjust the sell stop if you want a true 30 stop limit.
And with a 33 stop on a sell MNT would have banked 10 pips today too an the demo account.
M
pseudo straddle
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if the system requires that amount of tweaking then the original concept becomes a rather expensive alarm clock...
mark120169
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Well if the trend continues even using RH results unless there is a big turn around in the success of NT by my 60 day anniversary to get +237 pips (mid July) then I taking the full refund offer.
Or is the refund only valid if you are below +23.7 pips (£10 pip) even if you only trade £1 pip or does it not matter? Anyone successfully returned theirs for a refund?
M
goldfinger777
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Just when I thought I was getting to grips with Spreadbetting another spanner in the works that cost me (and many other newbies I guess using IG -30 pips today) as the book does not discuss the above at all for non limited risk account holders.
Got the entry correct 14435.8 (round down as RH suggests) 14435 - 2 = 14433. Limit 50 @ 14383, stop 30 @ 14463. All good to go. All off the bid chart as in the book. So I leave the bid chart running and come back to look every 1/2 hour or so. 7am all ok.
But @ 7.30am I saw I got stopped out. Checking the chart the high was @ 7.03am and was 14460.6 so I was like WTF thats. 2.4 pips away from stop why have they stopped me out.
Reading above and talking to IG on a sell order on a normal stop the stop is triggered by the Ask price, not the bid price. Check the Ask price chart @ 7.03 and the high was 14463.1 hence we got stopped out..............how cruel was that.
What annoys me is the book makes no reference to this and that as you do everything off the "bid" chart I assumed all stops would work out exactly +/- 30. But No, effectively on a short sell order you only have a "real" stop of around -27 from your entry price!!
So I now see two choices (ignoring a gaurentted stop as that costs an extra 3 pip spread anyway).
A) on a sell order set a stop @ 33 to give an effective net 30 stop off the bid entry price set as per the book.
B) As Bomb suggested rather than -2 on a sell order use + 1 for entry price instead ( -2 + 3 = +1) to adjust the whole thing.
As I think RH has it correct with -2 off a sell to only get in if trend continues down I'm going for option A in future and setting a sell stop @ 33 rather than 30.
Now to figure out if the reverse is true for a buy order? Anyone? Maybe I will wait until I get the same issue with a Buy before I tinker with that stop.
Hopping mad about this though as he never explained the reality of the situation thus giving you the choice to adjust the sell stop if you want a true 30 stop limit.
And with a 33 stop on a sell MNT would have banked 10 pips today too an the demo account.
M
I feel your pain Mark and I think you're right to adjust your stop to 33 for sell trades. But to be fair to RH he does cover this in the manual, just not explicitly. If you "read between the lines" it is apparent that the reason he says to only add 2 pts to a sell order but 5 pts to a buy order is because on a sell order you are already "at the market price" as it were, because your chart is set to bid. When the trade is CLOSED, that is when +3 pts gets added, because you have to BUY in order to close your SELL position. Confusing I know!
To be clear:
When you open a SELL trade: your 3 pt spread (IG's commission) is added when you CLOSE the position (i.e. when you EXIT the market).
When you open a BUY trade: your 3 pt spread (IG's commission) is added when you OPEN the position (i.e. when you ENTER the market).
peterf1966
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the original concept becomes a rather expensive alarm clock..QUOTE]
Remember I am on ETX saftey net, so my trades until 23rd June have no risk, only reward. What's the R/R value - infinity!! :clap:
Quote from Mark -
As Bomb suggested rather than -2 on a sell order use + 1 for entry price instead ( -2 + 3 = +1) to adjust the whole thing.
This is not far off using mid price,
On Friday on ETX I took it back down manually to match IG's bid, today I forgot to do this, so wouldnt have been stopped, even if I'd not set loss at 35.
I wonder on sell trade you should use mid price? worth a back-test?
This mornings RH update shows -30 for last week, about what I got for the system. Again considering winning weeks v losing weeks, this is minor (though annoying due to all those +20 moments mid way through the trade)
goldfinger777
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Here are some interesting figures Net Trappers.
So the "official" Net Trap results from RH are in:
01 June: +22
02 June: -30
03 June: -10
04 June -12
Weekly total: -30 points.
Now here are the results for the week if using mark120169's "Mini Net Trap" (MNT) system:
01 June: +10
02 June: +10
03 June: +10
04 June +10
Weekly total: +40 pts. Nice result Mark!
And for further comparison, here are the "PEAK PROFIT" results, which is the maximum points you could've got with NT by 8:30am if you didn't set a LIMIT and closed the trade manually at the BEST possible opportunity every day (impossible I know, but bear with me) :
01 June: +40
02 June: +10
03 June: +19
04 June +30
Weekly total: +99 pts. Sweet!
So the burning question is, how can we tweak NT to get results that are somewhere between Mark's MNT system and the PEAK PROFIT results?
I shall put my thinking cap on
So the "official" Net Trap results from RH are in:
01 June: +22
02 June: -30
03 June: -10
04 June -12
Weekly total: -30 points.
Now here are the results for the week if using mark120169's "Mini Net Trap" (MNT) system:
01 June: +10
02 June: +10
03 June: +10
04 June +10
Weekly total: +40 pts. Nice result Mark!
And for further comparison, here are the "PEAK PROFIT" results, which is the maximum points you could've got with NT by 8:30am if you didn't set a LIMIT and closed the trade manually at the BEST possible opportunity every day (impossible I know, but bear with me) :
01 June: +40
02 June: +10
03 June: +19
04 June +30
Weekly total: +99 pts. Sweet!
So the burning question is, how can we tweak NT to get results that are somewhere between Mark's MNT system and the PEAK PROFIT results?
I shall put my thinking cap on
mark120169
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This mornings RH update shows -30 for last week, about what I got for the system. Again considering winning weeks v losing weeks, this is minor (though annoying due to all those +20 moments mid way through the trade)[/QUOTE]
That's why i'm trialing MNT on a demo account to bank +10 pips on these days, today was an learning curve, with the adjusted 33 stop MNT would have banked +10 pips today too additional to NT.
I hoping MNT in parralell with NT will give slightly better results in "normal" weeks but much better results, or at worst "break even" results in weeks such as the last two which run NT into a loss.
M
That's why i'm trialing MNT on a demo account to bank +10 pips on these days, today was an learning curve, with the adjusted 33 stop MNT would have banked +10 pips today too additional to NT.
I hoping MNT in parralell with NT will give slightly better results in "normal" weeks but much better results, or at worst "break even" results in weeks such as the last two which run NT into a loss.
M
