Psychology... the poll

[firewalker99]

Not at all, you have misunderstood and this is now getting laborious and tedious. It is beyond me how such a simple concept can be so constantly misunderstood. Do you honestly think that if you sat a chimpanzee in front of a computer and showed it exactly how YOU trade that it will understand? Why not? If you understand why not then maybe you have hope of understanding what I’m saying, maybe....

If you honestly think that anyone can become a successful trader then no doubt you think it also applies to our nearest relative....

This argument is unbelievably and mind bogglingly tedious...

Ergo post http://www.trade2win.com/boards/415971-post232.html.

 

[temptrader]

What do you want, FW? Do you want us to say that anyone CAN do it given enough instruction and experience and hard work and perseverance? I'm sorry, the answer is no.

I've always maintained - and will continue to maintain - that all individuals have a certain potential and when they reach that there is no more. That's just the way it is. Environment and upbringing may mask the potential to a degree, but the potential is there and it is limited according to the individual.

The ones that have given up are sometimes the ones who have been at this game for some time, years even, and realize it's not for them. There is no shame in that, because that's just how life is. People fail at different professions all the time, why should the trading profession be any different?

Yes, you are tedious FW. Utterly tedious and you've belaboured your points to death. If you are seeking reassurance that you will make it as a successful consistent trader then I'm afraid that's not within our power to provide you that. I don't do group hugs, or positive reinforcements, or collective "sharing". You can stand on your own two feet or you can't. If you can't there's always the general 9 - 5 obligation waiting, so that's not a total loss is it?

 

[firewalker99]

What do you want, FW? Do you want us to say that anyone CAN do it given enough instruction and experience and hard work and perseverance? I'm sorry, the answer is no.

What I want is irrelevant. Although seeing some healthy arguments instead of personal accusations would definitely benefit the nature of the discussion.

I've always maintained - and will continue to maintain - that all individuals have a certain potential and when they reach that there is no more. That's just the way it is. Environment and upbringing may mask the potential to a degree, but the potential is there and it is limited according to the individual.

The 'potential' you are refering to is indeed often determined by external factors over which the individual has no control. That's why in multiple posts I've refered to this as 'the environment'. Despite that, you and new_trader still bring up bogus examples which serve nothing other than to illustrate that you've misunderstood what I've been saying all along.

The ones that have given up are sometimes the ones who have been at this game for some time, years even, and realize it's not for them. There is no shame in that, because that's just how life is. People fail at different professions all the time, why should the trading profession be any different?

If it's not for them, then perhaps they don't have the necessary motivation to succeed. Most professionals in life enjoy what they are doing enormously. Swimmers who find themselves in the water for 8 or 10 hours a day, must either really like what they're doing or be true sadists. I didn't say trading is for everybody, nor is farming, nor is being a busdriver. Those who find what they are looking for in the markets, will get out of it what they deserve.

Yes, you are tedious FW. Utterly tedious and you've belaboured your points to death. If you are seeking reassurance that you will make it as a successful consistent trader then I'm afraid that's not within our power to provide you that. I don't do group hugs, or positive reinforcements, or collective "sharing". You can stand on your own two feet or you can't. If you can't there's always the general 9 - 5 obligation waiting, so that's not a total loss is it?

I think I'm no more tedious than someone who has failed to (a) substantiate his claims by anything more than anecdotal personal experiences (or how else I am to interpret all the references to missing out on a girl?) and (b) who continuously is turning this argument into some sort of personal feud. Either with PKFFW or with me.

Futhermore I don't understand why you are incapable of replying in a rational manner, instead of an emotional one. Perhaps this explains why you are making all these references to other people's skills as traders (which are again irrelevant to the case). Unlike yourself, I've proven I'm more than capable of putting on profitable trades. Those who have been following the public DOW thread last year, and last two weeks will have observed this.

 

[temptrader]

FW,

I'm not being emotion at all. Again, you're so good at miss reading, and miss interpreting my posts. Well done.

I will say it again: you can either stand on your own two feet or you can't. If you can, you stay in the game. If you can't, you do what the rest of the population is doing: 9 - 5 obligations till retirement or what have you.

It is not for me, or new_trader, nor anyone else, to decide whether you make it in this game or not. That's due to you, and you alone.

I have nothing further to add, because it seems that you and PKFFW just want some positive reinforcement, or some words of comfort - none of which would help anyway.

 

[firewalker99]

FW,

I'm not being emotion at all. Again, you're so good at miss reading, and miss interpreting my posts. Well done.

I will say it again: you can either stand on your own two feet or you can't. If you can, you stay in the game. If you can't, you do what the rest of the population is doing: 9 - 5 obligations till retirement or what have you.

It is not for me, or new_trader, nor anyone else, to decide whether you make it in this game or not. That's due to you, and you alone.

I have nothing further to add, because it seems that you and PKFFW just want some positive reinforcement, or some words of comfort - none of which would help anyway.

Just count the number of times the word 'you' comes up in your post. Than tell me again this isn't personal. Djeezzz...

 

[new_trader]

Bogus examples? I am talking biology and you keep talking environment!! Neither do I bring up the subject of ego and other such irrelevant talk. In any case, I have never once in this thread said that traders need to be born like me in order to be successful.

It seems to me that anyone who claims successful trading can be taught are the ones who have an inflated ego. To actually believe that what they know not only is worth showing to someone else but also that it will make them a success...THAT is ego! Besides, if someone did have an inflated ego because of their success, as has been suggested about me, wouldn't it make sense to try and learn from them rather than argue with them? Do you see or do you not see?

 

[firewalker99]

Bogus examples? I am talking biology and you keep talking environment!! Neither do I bring up the subject of ego and other such irrelevant talk. In any case, I have never once in this thread said that traders need to be born like me in order to be successful.

It seems to me that anyone who claims successful trading can be taught are the ones who have an inflated ego. To actually believe that what they know not only is worth showing to someone else but also that it will make them a success...THAT is ego! Besides, if someone did have an inflated ego because of their success, as has been suggested about me, wouldn't it make sense to try and learn from them rather than argue with them? Do you see or do you not see?

Perhaps those who share their knowledge and information have a more positive perspective on society and an altruistic approach to life. I doubt ego has anything to do with it. Take trader_dante for example, he has discussed his trading style, strategy and psychology in depth to anyone who wanted to listen without asking anything in return.

He's now offering a mentorship. You and temptrader ought to apply. :idea:

 

[chump]

Bogus examples? I am talking biology and you keep talking environment!! Neither do I bring up the subject of ego and other such irrelevant talk. In any case, I have never once in this thread said that traders need to be born like me in order to be successful.

It seems to me that anyone who claims successful trading can be taught are the ones who have an inflated ego. To actually believe that what they know not only is worth showing to someone else but also that it will make them a success...THAT is ego! Besides, if someone did have an inflated ego because of their success, as has been suggested about me, wouldn't it make sense to try and learn from them rather than argue with them? Do you see or do you not see?

i don't think there is any issue with the argument that trading can be taught...you can teach me everything that I can absorb about ..running the 100mt technically fast ...using the blitz defence....skiing Blacks ....and on and on...however from that point on how well I can actually end up performing is down to a host of factors that you can't teach me...for example ...I ski the black and fall ass over tea kettle and break a leg...will I mend and try again ? ...if I don't break the leg will I ever perform as well as someone who has physical strengths greater than mine ,so can I actually compete ,or is it likely just to be a hobby for enjoyment? etc etc probably not...and on and on...

It isn't the teaching ..it's the doing within whatever constraints the individual has, be they physical ,or more likely in the case of trading, psychologically learned behaviour that is just not suitable for trading and which the individual is not sufficiently motivated to break.

 

[new_trader]

which the individual is not sufficiently motivated to break.

Yes, but this would imply that anyone sufficiently motivated to prove Fermat’s last theorem will succeed. In many professions motivation is simply not enough and trading is one of them.

 

[new_trader]

Perhaps those who share their knowledge and information have a more positive perspective on society and an altruistic approach to life.

Really? Why not just share your money with those that ask for it? Don't put yourself or anyone else on a pedestal

 

[Mathemagician]

Yes, but this would imply that anyone sufficiently motivated to prove Fermat’s last theorem will succeed. In many professions motivation is simply not enough and trading is one of them.

Anyone sufficiently motivated can learn and execute a mechanical system.

jj

 

[firewalker99]

Really? Why not just share your money with those that ask for it? Don't put yourself or anyone else on a pedestal

Because trading isn't about running after the money. The money is a side-effect. Why not give any great top sport athlete a grand sum of money and tell him to stay home at the Olympics?

Anyone sufficiently motivated can learn and execute a mechanical system.

I wholeheartedly agree.

 

[new_trader]

Because trading isn't about running after the money. The money is a side-effect. Why not give any great top sport athlete a grand sum of money and tell him to stay home at the Olympics?

I wasn't talking about trading. You were the one who claimed that some people have an altruistic approach to life.. What you really mean is that some people are selectively altruistic, just like I am, and I don't ask for anything in return either.:-0

I wholeheartedly agree.

I don't. I would say anyone insufficiently motivated can learn and execute a mechanical system. In fact, there is actually nothing to learn.

Here is one:

The Opening Range Breakout for the E-mini S&P500.

1) Watch the market for the 1st 135 minutes.
2) Place a BUY STOP order 1 tick above the the High after this 135min period.
3) Place a SELL STOP order 1 tick below the Low after this 135min period.
4) Leave BOTH orders in the market until the close. One acts as a stop for the other if it is triggered.
5) Close & or cancel orders at market close.

There you go! Don't say I'm not altruistic

I wonder how many people I've just taught to trade :smart:

 

[Mathemagician]

I wasn't talking about trading. You were the one who claimed that some people have an altruistic approach to life.. What you really mean is that some people are selectively altruistic, just like I am, and I don't ask for anything in return either.:-0



I don't. I would say anyone insufficiently motivated can learn and execute a mechanical system. In fact, there is actually nothing to learn.

Here is one:

The Opening Range Breakout for the E-mini S&P500.

1) Watch the market for the 1st 135 minutes.
2) Place a BUY STOP order 1 tick above the the High after this 135min period.
3) Place a SELL STOP order 1 tick below the Low after this 135min period.
4) Leave BOTH orders in the market until the close. One acts as a stop for the other if it is triggered.
5) Close & or cancel orders at market close.

There you go! Don't say I'm not altruistic

I wonder how many people I've just taught to trade :smart:

$4/rt commissions only, no slippage. This is not tradable and I hope nobody blindly takes your word for it. Of course, this does explain a lot...

jj

 

[black bear]

Quite a few

I wasn't talking about trading. You were the one who claimed that some people have an altruistic approach to life.. What you really mean is that some people are selectively altruistic, just like I am, and I don't ask for anything in return either.:-0



I don't. I would say anyone insufficiently motivated can learn and execute a mechanical system. In fact, there is actually nothing to learn.

Here is one:

The Opening Range Breakout for the E-mini S&P500.

1) Watch the market for the 1st 135 minutes.
2) Place a BUY STOP order 1 tick above the the High after this 135min period.
3) Place a SELL STOP order 1 tick below the Low after this 135min period.
4) Leave BOTH orders in the market until the close. One acts as a stop for the other if it is triggered.
5) Close & or cancel orders at market close.

There you go! Don't say I'm not altruistic

I wonder how many people I've just taught to trade :smart:

Hi New trader

good post

not bad on ftse open hour and dow. I would say 90 min range on the Dow but just use them at my discrection anyway

Quite a few if they eyeball it for more than 135 mins before trying something else

 

[Mathemagician]

I wonder how many people I've just taught to trade :smart:

It seems to me that anyone who claims successful trading can be taught are the ones who have an inflated ego.

Yep, you said it!

jj

 

[new_trader]

$4/rt commissions only, no slippage. This is not tradable and I hope nobody blindly takes your word for it. Of course, this does explain a lot...

jj

Anyone sufficiently motivated can learn and execute a mechanical system.

jj

My mum didn't mention anything about slippage when I gave her this mechanical system, she was just motivated to learn and execute it

Beginner's Guide To Online Day Trading

 

[black bear]

Bracket Open Hours range ~ Dow & Ftse

Watch price movement in the 5 min tf with a 20 sma for one month and no yestedays high, Low and Close

Todays Open

Sure you will learn something of value if you keep your peepers open

 

[new_trader]

Bracket Open Hours range ~ Dow & Ftse

Watch price movement in the 5 min tf with a 20 sma for one month and no yestedays high, Low and Close

Todays Open

Sure you will learn something of value if you keep your peepers open

Andy,

Mathemagician thought he was proving a point by posting the equity curve. But I already knew the ORB system isn't a good system. Incidentally Mathemagician, what exactly do you mean by "I hope nobody blindly takes your word for it". Take my word for what exactly? I don't recall attaching any promises, claims or otherwise...it is a mechanical system that is simple to follow, and ANYONE can trade it. Even a monkey

Anyway, Andy, I actually traded it back in the days when I was foolish enough to believe the things that people like Mathemagician said. But I didn't need a 'professional' trader to post a pretty equity curve to prove it was no good. I did my own research and arrived at my own conclusion. I scrutinised that system right down to the tick! More importantly, I arrived at the ultimate conclusion - Mechanical trading is simply not the way to go about trading. I'm sure Mathemagician will post a pretty equity curve of a 'good' mechanical system in an effort to 'prove' me wrong

 

[PKFFW]

Anyway, Andy, I actually traded it back in the days when I was foolish enough to believe the things that people like Mathemagician said. But I didn't need a 'professional' trader to post a pretty equity curve to prove it was no good. I did my own research and arrived at my own conclusion. I scrutinised that system right down to the tick! More importantly, I arrived at the ultimate conclusion - Mechanical trading is simply not the way to go about trading. I'm sure Mathemagician will post a pretty equity curve of a 'good' mechanical system in an effort to 'prove' me wrong

And there is no ego on your part hey? You have the ultimate conclusion do you? There is no other conclusion better than yours?

Or do you mean you ultimately arrived at your stated conclusion?

Cheers,
PKFFW