Private Members Boards?

[pttrader]

Private boards can just be another way of creating one's own little world that locks out everyone else or any contrary opinion. I don't see that as benefiting traders. I think it not conducive to the public for T2W to allow such things on what is supposed to be a public board ..(I thought anyway). If people want private forums create their own that has nothing to do with T2W.

That is my opinion. Of course, I am sure it will get shot down since this thread IS public but that is o.k.

PT

 

[ducati998]

DBP,

"Price" was defined for you, but you didn't like the definition. That's not quite the same thing as "zilch".

By frugi, and you added, .....agreed, or somesuch. Now the point being, with that definition, all you are defining is the historical fact of a transaction and the visual recording of it on a price chart.....................with all the seriousness that posters were submitting their work and analysis, there was to my mind a very strong implication that there was something more to it than looking at a chart ........sans mathematical construct indicators.....What a disappointment !!

As to being off topic, yes. And I do have you to thank in large part for prompting me to make the forum private. You never read any of the other threads, any of the introductions to the material, any of the various explanations -- with illustrations -- provided. Instead, you wanted to argue the value of technical analysis. Again.

1.....Argue the value of technical analysis. And as a trader of your experience, expertise, and assumed role of educator.........so what. You should be able to logically, rationally and intelligently defend, illustrate, and provide evidence of the value of your form of technical analysis...........Why? Because you have promoted yourself as an expert, and you are encouraging people to place their money at risk utilising strategies that you have had a large influence in perpetuating.

2....As for me prompting you to take it private..........you are displaying a petulant temper tantrum, and as such I question all the advice you have to give.
All that was required was a PM, or public message......please don't post in my forum, I had got the message anyway, I was merely testing your tolerance to your ideas being challenged...........they were found badly wanting.

Actually, not just anyone can join. Ducati has made it quite clear that he has no interest in learning to trade by price, so there would be no point in admitting him. But anyone who is interested in the work and in doing the work is welcome to apply

Barred in England, threatened with court action in Australia, who would ever have guessed posting about the stock market was so risky.

cheers d998

 

[Trader333]

I cannot see what all the fuss is about. If people wish to have a private members board then why not and from what I can see there are only 2 in any case.

Those with long memories will remember that Grey1 set up a private members thread and this was because he got post after post of abuse from other T2W members and he got fed up with it.

The board was a huge success and I think anyone who contributed would agree with this.

If people want a private board let them have it in my view.


Paul

 

[dr_d_michaelson]

Private boards can just be another way of creating one's own little world that locks out everyone else or any contrary opinion.

I could not agree more. In this particular instance, moreover, the party concerned was already very well known, here and elsewhere, as someone who will brook no contrary opinion at all, to the extent that members find it most aggravating.

I don't see that as benefiting traders.

Ultimately it can benefit nobody. It can lead only to problems and arguments.

I think it not conducive to the public for T2W to allow such things on what is supposed to be a public board ..(I thought anyway). If people want private forums create their own that has nothing to do with T2W.

I agree with you, and clearly so do many others.

That is my opinion. Of course, I am sure it will get shot down since this thread IS public but that is o.k.

If you'll tolerate a dissenting opinion ( ) I don't think it will. I think it's already clear that yours is the majority view. T2W made a little slip here, for all the reasons given in various posts above. There is still time to correct it.

 

[barjon]

My SOLE objection is as stated - I believe the private threads should be visibly marked, to avoid accidentally stumbling into a private thread with off topic posts, and to ensure that those deliberately posting rubbish can't hide behind some sort of free speech issue. Provided SOME oversight is maintained to ensure that the thread isn't used to con the gullible that's it for me, job done.

!

DaveJB

I don't think you can stumble accidentally into a private thread - you have to register to subscribe to the thread and if you don't you don't even see the posts. Using the pv threads as an example, I think the problem came when they were public but the threads' "owner" had moderating rights and used them to remove so called "off topic" posts. Now it's private that's not so much of a problem since people know what they are signing up to when they register and subscribe (it's made clear in the introductory thread).

As I understand it, the private boards are merely a facility that T2W provides and should not be regarded as part of T2W as such.

Personally, I'm a little uncomfortable with the idea simply because they convey the impression of secret circles which is bound to raise eyebrows and carries the danger that "meaty" subjects transfer to the private arena to the detriment of the public boards.

It is not obvious how one goes about registering and subscribing to the private boards and I do think that should be made clear in the menu list of forums.

good trading

jon

 

[dbphoenix]

DBP,
. . . with all the seriousness that posters were submitting their work and analysis, there was to my mind a very strong implication that there was something more to it than looking at a chart ........sans mathematical construct indicators.....What a disappointment !!

Again, you never bothered to do the work. Your disappointment is of your own making.

1.....Argue the value of technical analysis. And as a trader of your experience, expertise, and assumed role of educator.........so what. You should be able to logically, rationally and intelligently defend, illustrate, and provide evidence of the value of your form of technical analysis.

As I said, done that. No need to do it again just for you.

2....As for me prompting you to take it private..........you are displaying a petulant temper tantrum, and as such I question all the advice you have to give.
All that was required was a PM, or public message......please don't post in my forum, I had got the message anyway, I was merely testing your tolerance to your ideas being challenged...........they were found badly wanting.

And you did receive such a message. And ignored it. Which persuaded me that good manners were unlikely to prevail.

Barred in England, threatened with court action in Australia . . .

'Scuse me?

 

[dbphoenix]

Private boards can just be another way of creating one's own little world that locks out everyone else or any contrary opinion.

I could not agree more. In this particular instance, moreover, the party concerned was already very well known, here and elsewhere, as someone who will brook no contrary opinion at all, to the extent that members find it most aggravating.

The party of the first part suggests that those members of my fan club -- such as the above -- who'd like to make all of this about me begin some other thread devoted to the subject, e.g., What I Dislike Most About Db. The issue of private boards has less to do with me than it does with the right of like-minded individuals -- at least in the US -- to assemble.

There seems to be a perception that those who belong to private boards must go through some sort of ritual, give away their property, learn a secret handshake, and that they subsequently read nothing else, subjecting themselves to the sole influence of the group moderator, that they are all so stupid, so witless, so malleable that they are mere putty in the hands of a fiend who would have them abandon indicators, for example, against their will, and that even the board administrator is prevented from monitoring such goings-on.

How silly.

As I've said, anyone who wants to join is welcome to do so as long as he agrees to abide by certain rules, such as focusing on price and volume to the exclusion of indicators and canned patterns, agreeing not to tout software or hardware or commercial systems, to be "transparent" with regard to his trading system (something which one of the disgruntled contributors above refused to do), to agree to editing or deletion of off-topic posts. Though "chat" necessarily takes place, the point of the forum is not to chat but to work, which is why there are so few members. These people are developing trading plans, an often painful experience, and one which most novices strenuously avoid.

It should be noted that I do not travel from thread to thread, forum to forum, telling everybody that they're doing it wrong, that price is the only way. What and how other people trade is not my concern. What is my concern is providing a venue for those who want to learn how to trade by price and who are willing to do the work required, which, fortunately, requires reading widely. Some of the members trade off tick charts. Others trade off EOD charts over timeframes stretching across months. Some would like to learn how to trade without charts at all. Doesn't matter to me. The process of creating a trading plan is the same regardless. And anyone who prefers to trade using indicators and patterns and Fib and so forth is more than welcome to do so. But that's not trading by PV, and there are other forums devoted to those subjects. There are none -- none -- devoted to PV alone.

I suppose that those who are anti-privacy would also eliminate private messaging (which would be an attractive alternative if attachments could be made and the messages stored in a private archive, but then one would have what amounts to a private forum). Odd that people are enraged when their PMs are made public, but are appalled when they learn that they do not necessarily have free and unlimited access to the thoughts of others. Why not make all the communications among Sharky and the moderators public? God knows what they are all hatching at those subterranean levels at which dark and sinister forces work.

And what about the grassy knoll?

 

[Agpilot]

I noted it, but you didn't, apparently. That was the only post of mine that DIDN'T get deleted! (And I intended it quite genuinely: I thought it was an excellent title and would make a brilliant book title too.)

If you really want to discuss it, DB, then tell us what your motivation was in requesting moderation facilities here so soon after they finally banned you from the Elite Trader site?

Actually on second thoughts, don't even bother. I can't be bothered with any more arguing here. My purpose in posting (see above) was to endorse wholeheartedly Dave's views and to try to warn people that if nothing's done to "supervise" people's private forums, the site may be damaged as a result. That's all.

Hi Roberto:
You keep bringing up "being banned from ET." That's not a negative. That's a positive thing. All you have to do is try and hold a reasonable exchange at ET and there will be many garbage posts dumped on everyone involved. That ET place has more 4 and 5 letter words than any public forum should be allowed to have. He got banned for trying to make a clean respectable place to express personal problems with market action without being dumped on. That's what he is also trying to do here. Read between the lines posted here too. Many here feel that they are so advanced in their understanding of the market that they scoff (lightly of course) at some dumb beginner questions. There are some very big male egos floating around all market forums. Dbp has made an attempt to remove that. 3 cheers for a "safe" place to ask basic market price-volume questions... without having to endure more putdowns(lightly putdowns of course) Need I say I like the idea of an indicator free place devoted to just price-volume and one leader rather that a free-for-all open public place where anything goes.. It's like going to a very fine place to eat steak.. rather than to a public soup line. Put on your beginner hat and join in by being helpful to those who are trying to improve themselves.. If you don't like a private area for helping others, try looking at your schools.. They all have seperate rooms for different subjects.. don't they?? Well dbp has tried to make a special help area. Great. It's not like he is hiding the latest best ever stock buy from you.. What is the real basic problem?? You don't like dbphoenix making a special help area?? You want to "scatter" the beginners??
agpilot
Ps. (by the way, I started investing almost 40 years ago and I am still open to learning more)

Edit: I forgot to spell check but that's OK. It will irritate the stuffy naysayers..

 

[Roberto]

Hi Roberto: What is the real basic problem?/

I think it's DBP's intransigence, his lack of willingness to have any dissent, his lack of willingness (and maybe ability, as has been suggested in other threads by others _far_ more experienced than I) to answer "awkward questions" (not that I have ever asked one myself, but I have silently sympathised with many others who've been offended by him), and the other points made above about him both by myself and by a number of other people.

As shown elsewhere, he has almost unique abilities when it comes to pi**ing off a large number of members. That's obviously not good for any internet community.

This, and not what you mention in your post, was the reason why _even_ the ET site eventually banned him (and they certainly tolerate a lot more than most sites will!): eventually they just couldn't tolerate the compaints and arguments any more. Sadly, I see the same thing happening here already.

I started investing almost 40 years ago and I am still open to learning more

So am I - very much so. DBP, on the other hand, is not.

He is open only to teaching and to always Being Right. Unlike many of us, he is unwilling to be mistaken or to have his views challenged (or even, in a tight spot, to justify them).

I hope, also, that his form of censorship is unwelcome here and that something will be done about it. I feel sure that it's possible for the rules to be changed slightly to protect the members from didactic, opinionated autocrats.

However many friends DBP asks to "put in a word for him" as you have so loyally done, I have the feeling that my PM inbox will have supportive messages from a customarily silent majority of at least ten times the size, thanking me for speaking out on this subject and urging me not to let it rest until some sort of "outcome" is attained.

I would remind you that I am by no means the only person saying these things, nor did I even start off this discussion!

And there you have it ... I've posted again to answer your question. I don't pretend to imagine that my answer will satisfy you, or that you'll even agree with most of it. That doesn't matter. Even the fact that you are in a tiny minority doesn't matter that much either. At the end of the day it's not your or my decision how this issue will be resolved, but clearly it's in need of some sort of resolution.

(By the way, and for the record, I happen to share DBP's views of "price" and "indicators" for the most part, as you can see from my own too-frequent and scattered posts on related subjects. I would _strongly_ welcome someone more suitable doing what DBP purports to be trying to do in a public part of the site.)

 

[Sharky]

Okay, I think everyone has now had an opportunity to air their views.

I appreciate all the constructive comments made, and it will take me a bit of time to go through them and decide how best to proceed, so for the moment I'm closing this thread. But there are certainly some useful suggestions being made such as making member forums more clearly identifiable and the process of subscribing to private forum more easily understood, which will hopefully alleviate some of the current concerns.