Price Patterns: Off topic discussion

[rainman2]

Mr Marcus,

If you se the "problem with these boards" as those that deserve repect don't get it, I suggest you go apply to join the elite club if you are not already a member. They do alot of back slapping and congratulating of each other.

I have no idea how you have built an 8 man team. I don't even know if you have indeed built an 8 man team or if you are just claiming to have done so.

I see only one problem with your post. Those who continually claim to be "in the know" on these boards also continually claim they will not share their knowledge. The only knowledge they seem to want to share is that we must all "know ourselves" and that is something they can not teach us and that we must work on ourselves etc etc etc. Now that is all well and good, and I do believe that it is an important part of trading. It is also a very vague statement that seems to suggest some great fount of inner knowledge without actually providing anything of substance. A bit of a catch-22 really. So how am I to truly know who has done the work and deserves respect?

You mention a live trading challenge. Fair enough, but without detailing the knowledge that goes into a trading strategy how am I to know which strategy(regardless of profitability) would be suitable to me? All a trading challenge(without detail of trading strategy) is going to provide is bragging rights to the individual that "wins". Now as important as that seems to be to "those in the know" on these boards, it doesn't really provide any useful information to anyone.

So the first order of business would be to determine if your interst is in the bragging rights or in the helping of others as you claim. If it is the helping of others, then some detailing of that "secret in the know knowledge" would be relevant and those "in the know" would then have to actually share some of that knowledge. Is this what "those in the know" really want? I think they have made it clear it is not.

Now don't get me wrong, I am not asking for those "in the know" to share their knowledge. As nice as it would be to have, how could I trust it? As you have pointed out in other posts, those "in the know" do not have my interests at heart. My cup of tea may be laced with cyanide etc etc. As others "in the know" have pointed out, the markets need a constant resupply of "weak hands" or "dumb money" churning over so those "in the know" can make money. So any knowledge those "in the know" provide is immediately suspect by your very own reasoning. So then I must ask, regardless of how much work they have done and how much respect they deserve, why should I respect that in the first place?

I respectfully suggest the only way anyone will succeed in this business is by reading, learning and practicing everything they can get their hands on. Then they can determine for themselves what is worthy of respect rather than relying on someone who claims to be "in the know" telling the newbie they are worthy of respect.

Cheers,
PKFFW

Mr. Marcus has always helped me whenever I have a question. I have nothing but the utmost respect for him as a person and as a trader. As a matter of fact, he went over some charts with myself and another colleague today on skype and I can honestly say that I learn from him every time we speak. I look at the market differently and some might say " more correctly" now.

 

[sandpiper]

After a few extremely informative skype sessions with mr.m I will vouch for his skills and his very generous nature.

I concur.

Having spent the best part of 20 years in IB's together with 6 years trading or attempting to trade my own account I can honestly state that I have never before encountered a trader such as Mr. Marcus.

I had previously thought the level of insight regarding price/market development to be unattainable. Who knows, for me it may still be.

Putting aside his unique (in my experience) abilities and talent, more than anything, I continue to be stunned by his generosity, particularly given the cut-throat nature of this business.

It saddens me greatly that his generosity is rewarded by constant kicks in the teeth from this board, with his posts being lost in wads of diatribe, some of it quite deliberately engineered to either distract the massive away from the truth or worse, to steer them underhandedly towards the meaningless regurgitation of traders from a time long past.

Regards.

 

[PKFFW]

....i gave out masses of details about how i trade in the summer...masses....i spent months running the chat rooms putting my trading asided to teach others in the past....i teach many people and continue to do so from these boards...indeed today...i have offered to help another 2 from this very thread on skype sessions......so i will continue to help others .... your post is completely based without any accuracy of my dealings...

Very well then, I apologise for lumping you in with others on these boards who purport to be "in the know". Obviously from the responses of yourself and others you are indeed a rare individual who is prepared to back up his claims with concrete examples, specific knowledge and a sharing of your experience. Sincere apologies.

Perhaps I should have couched my post in more neutral terms. I am merely trying to point out that simply because someone claims to be an experienced, successful, wealthy trader does not mean he is deserving of repsect. Obviously from the responses given you have earnt the right to be respected, both with your experience and with your generosity.

Having said that, I still see no other path to success than to take everything in and decide for oneself what is useful and what is not. The tiresome quarreling of those with opposing views attempting to show everyone they are best really serves no useful function at all.

Cheers,
PKFFW

 

[andycan]

Mr Marcus,

If you se the "problem with these boards" as those that deserve repect don't get it, I suggest you go apply to join the elite club if you are not already a member. They do alot of back slapping and congratulating of each other.

I have no idea how you have built an 8 man team. I don't even know if you have indeed built an 8 man team or if you are just claiming to have done so.

I see only one problem with your post. Those who continually claim to be "in the know" on these boards also continually claim they will not share their knowledge. The only knowledge they seem to want to share is that we must all "know ourselves" and that is something they can not teach us and that we must work on ourselves etc etc etc. Now that is all well and good, and I do believe that it is an important part of trading. It is also a very vague statement that seems to suggest some great fount of inner knowledge without actually providing anything of substance. A bit of a catch-22 really. So how am I to truly know who has done the work and deserves respect?

You mention a live trading challenge. Fair enough, but without detailing the knowledge that goes into a trading strategy how am I to know which strategy(regardless of profitability) would be suitable to me? All a trading challenge(without detail of trading strategy) is going to provide is bragging rights to the individual that "wins". Now as important as that seems to be to "those in the know" on these boards, it doesn't really provide any useful information to anyone.

So the first order of business would be to determine if your interst is in the bragging rights or in the helping of others as you claim. If it is the helping of others, then some detailing of that "secret in the know knowledge" would be relevant and those "in the know" would then have to actually share some of that knowledge. Is this what "those in the know" really want? I think they have made it clear it is not.

Now don't get me wrong, I am not asking for those "in the know" to share their knowledge. As nice as it would be to have, how could I trust it? As you have pointed out in other posts, those "in the know" do not have my interests at heart. My cup of tea may be laced with cyanide etc etc. As others "in the know" have pointed out, the markets need a constant resupply of "weak hands" or "dumb money" churning over so those "in the know" can make money. So any knowledge those "in the know" provide is immediately suspect by your very own reasoning. So then I must ask, regardless of how much work they have done and how much respect they deserve, why should I respect that in the first place?

I respectfully suggest the only way anyone will succeed in this business is by reading, learning and practicing everything they can get their hands on. Then they can determine for themselves what is worthy of respect rather than relying on someone who claims to be "in the know" telling the newbie they are worthy of respect.

Cheers,
PKFFW

well its clear you dont know MM
otherwise you would not come up with all that drivel
and live trading you think it would serve no purpose yet a book would enlighten you mmmh
well here is a clue if a trader is doing a live trade and he/she enters a trade and you dont understand then may i suggest you ask the bloody question!! not difficult really
i speak often with MM and he is a great chap we have similar approaches but different styles so we talk the same language
and he is far more generous that most here, the problem as you see it is that he tells you what you need rather than what you want
in fact he is far more generous than i am and certainly more patient i would just tell you to stick it where the sun dont shine
maybe i should divulge what most dont know, thinking...........nah dont have the time my bad!

 

[PKFFW]

well its clear you dont know MM
otherwise you would not come up with all that drivel
and live trading you think it would serve no purpose yet a book would enlighten you mmmh
well here is a clue if a trader is doing a live trade and he/she enters a trade and you dont understand then may i suggest you ask the bloody question!! not difficult really
i speak often with MM and he is a great chap we have similar approaches but different styles so we talk the same language
and he is far more generous that most here, the problem as you see it is that he tells you what you need rather than what you want
in fact he is far more generous than i am and certainly more patient i would just tell you to stick it where the sun dont shine
maybe i should divulge what most dont know, thinking...........nah dont have the time my bad!

Please point out where I suggested a book would "enlighten" you?

My point about live trades serving no purpose was specific to the situation where the maker of that live trade refuses to detail anything about his strategy. Hence asking the "bloody question" would serve no purpose.

I clearly stated in my post that I am not asking anyone "in the know" to share their knowledge. So to suggest he is telling me what I need and not what I want is nonsensical. You have no idea what I want as I have not asked for anything. Further to that you have no idea what I need as you have no idea who I am, what stage of trading expertise I am at, what problems I am struggling with etc. The idea that someone on a forum board can possibly know what I need without knowing me is the very epitome of ego on their part.

You suggesting you would simply tell me where to stick it simply proves my point that (the overwhelming majority of) those "in the know" have clearly stated their intention not to share any of their knowledge.

As for the kind of man Mr Marcus is, I have already apologised for unfairly lumping him in with the likes of you and others "in the know".

Cheers,
PKFFW

 

[dbphoenix]

Very well then, I apologise for lumping you in with others on these boards who purport to be "in the know". Obviously from the responses of yourself and others you are indeed a rare individual who is prepared to back up his claims with concrete examples, specific knowledge and a sharing of your experience. Sincere apologies.

Perhaps I should have couched my post in more neutral terms. I am merely trying to point out that simply because someone claims to be an experienced, successful, wealthy trader does not mean he is deserving of repsect. Obviously from the responses given you have earnt the right to be respected, both with your experience and with your generosity.

Having said that, I still see no other path to success than to take everything in and decide for oneself what is useful and what is not. The tiresome quarreling of those with opposing views attempting to show everyone they are best really serves no useful function at all.

Cheers,
PKFFW

As to the last, I concur. And I have no reason to believe that the testimonials are not sincere. However, post after post of private clubs and secret knowledge and shadowy figures is at odds with the image of the selfless mentor. If marcus wants to conduct his business off the board, that's perfectly okay. But that does not entitle him to launch himself into attack mode whenever someone advances a proposition with which he disagrees.

This thread is supposed to be about patterns, yet here we are, again, focusing on personalities. If marcus chooses to believe that all my posts are crap, that's his prerogative. But many people clearly disagree. So, I suggest that he get over it.

Db

 

[dbphoenix]

...db i have never mentioned a shadowy club....for god sake man.....i posted reams of details of my trades in the summer.......... i could get 30 people who i speak to regularly to post as off now....so stop trying to slander me..this all started again...when you became involved...before that point 5 people had been freely discussing.....you came in with the all this same shadowy club conspiracy theories ...you assume that i am involved some how.

if you would like to talk on skype....i would be only be so happy to do so....because this can not go on.....im sure we can resolve this.

Slander? ".....this thread has validity in its own right...so why refer them to your graveyard.....thier salvation is not in weak hand reviews on bloated tomes off nothingness".

You're entitled to your opinion. But if you're going to dish this sort of thing out, don't complain when it's served back to you.

Db

 

[sandpiper]

As to the last, I concur. And I have no reason to believe that the testimonials are not sincere. However, post after post of private clubs and secret knowledge and shadowy figures is at odds with the image of the selfless mentor. If marcus wants to conduct his business off the board, that's perfectly okay. But that does not entitle him to launch himself into attack mode whenever someone advances a proposition with which he disagrees.

This thread is supposed to be about patterns, yet here we are, again, focusing on personalities. If marcus chooses to believe that all my posts are crap, that's his prerogative. But many people clearly disagree. So, I suggest that he get over it.

Db

You are of course, once again, mis-representing the sequence of events with regard to this particular thread. I would like to think that this was due to a failure to appreciate the subtleties of British humour. Alas, I am more inclined to believe that you see exactly what you want to see and fail to appreciate any subtlety or humour simply because it suits your purpose to do so.

To clarify. This was your first post to the thread:

Don't let all the whispering about secret knowledge, restricted groups, and shadowy conspiracies dissuade you. There's plenty of good information available in the Price Volume forum regarding your questions. But you'll have to put in the time and effort to read it.

Db

Up to this point the thread was about patterns (apart from my playful intrusion with smilies which I apologise to all for). Unless I have missed something, you advanced no proposition regarding patterns that anybody could disagree with. What you did do was advance a proposition that Mr M. was associated with secret knowledge, restricted groups and shadowy consipricies.

Apart from the fact that the accusation is blatantly ridiculous given number of people Mr. M freely shares knowledge with, your post illustrates for all to see (if they care to look) exactly how highly you value open discussion, i.e. yet another successful attempt by you to derail an interesting thread.

Please, please, please, can the moderators actually take the trouble to work out what is really happening to these threads, rather than simply making generalisations about pie throwing.

 

[dbphoenix]

...post 36 db....again you make unfounded associations....you dished it out....first...i responded and defended myself due to your unfounded accusations......but again i will say this......and please everyone take note......i am offering to resolve this once and for all....for the sake of threads ,site and barjons health etc.....if you care to take up my offer of a skype conversation ...im sure we can resolve this civilly


NOTE TO MODERATORS and SHARKY....i am offering a truce.....i am offering to resolve this....and make life easy for all..i will respect dbs forums and posts if in return he stops accusing me of being invloved in areas business which i am not.

Let's not forget your "private communication" to me, not worded to be endearing.

But I'm more than willing to put an end to all this, as I've said before. If you and bertie agree to live and let live, peace will reign and T2W will be serene and tranquil. If you do and he doesn't, then at least you can perhaps serve as an example.

Db

 

[dbphoenix]

...please db....i have nothing to do with Bertie directly....we sometimes speak....nothing else....this has originated because of false associations being made in peoples minds....noit based on facts.i can only be responsible for my own actions.....and from now on i will respect your opinions and in return i no longer expect false assumptions being made with regards to these so calls secret clubs etc. and other associations.

if this is agreeable...please sign below :cheesy:

i hereby ,as off,5/2/2007.....promise to feel the luv with regards to db.....and in return i need some luv back

signed mr marcus

Agreed, though no luv is expected nor required.

 

[Bez]

Seems like we've just wide spread'ed through some major congestion

About time

 

[wasp]

Great stuff, lets get these threads/forum back to trading.................

 

[Crap Buddist]

I think Loves important in trading.

...sing it with me brothers....and for hard of hearing...haha.....sign it with me brothers :cheesy:

Love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love.
There's nothing you can do that can't be done.
Nothing you can sing that can't be sung.
Nothing you can say but you can learn how to play the game
It's easy.
There's nothing you can make that can't be made.
No one you can save that can't be saved.
Nothing you can do but you can learn how to be in time
It's easy.
All you need is love, all you need is love,
All you need is love, love, love is all you need.
Love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love.
All you need is love, all you need is love,
All you need is love, love, love is all you need.
There's nothing you can know that isn't known.
Nothing you can see that isn't shown.
Nowhere you can be that isn't where you're meant to be.
It's easy.
All you need is love, all you need is love,
All you need is love, love, love is all you need.
All you need is love (all together now)
All you need is love (everybody)
All you need is love, love, love is all you need.


......just me and my bass guitar

(PS......i am removing anything i consider as a distraction from the main purpose of the thread.....and to save poor barjon his morning rich tea time)

Cool stuff, Thank you, now how would we perform if All we had is hate ? so love is definately the side to choose I think.

Have you got a strum pattern for Wild Thing, by the troggs in your head by any chance? Been trying to get to grips with that for ages, on the back burner now , but I ask all guitarists so far no joy.

like :arrowd: :arrowd: :arrowd: :arrowu: :arrowd:

 

[barjon]

Well, I'm pleased to see that a truce has been called and accepted

In order that everyone can get back to discussing price patterns without diversion I'll housekeep the thread. However, I do think it would be wrong to delete all the comments that relate to personalities since they represent a debate rather than merely an exchange of insults so I will split them off to a separate thread.

good trading

jon

 

[andycan]

Please point out where I suggested a book would "enlighten" you?

My point about live trades serving no purpose was specific to the situation where the maker of that live trade refuses to detail anything about his strategy. Hence asking the "bloody question" would serve no purpose.

I clearly stated in my post that I am not asking anyone "in the know" to share their knowledge. So to suggest he is telling me what I need and not what I want is nonsensical. You have no idea what I want as I have not asked for anything. Further to that you have no idea what I need as you have no idea who I am, what stage of trading expertise I am at, what problems I am struggling with etc. The idea that someone on a forum board can possibly know what I need without knowing me is the very epitome of ego on their part.

You suggesting you would simply tell me where to stick it simply proves my point that (the overwhelming majority of) those "in the know" have clearly stated their intention not to share any of their knowledge.

As for the kind of man Mr Marcus is, I have already apologised for unfairly lumping him in with the likes of you and others "in the know".

Cheers,
PKFFW

i dont belong to any secret sect with dodgy handshakes
but your generalisation clearly irritates people
i learned what i learned because i chose to learn as for sharing knowledge very few actually ask questions most assume because they cant then nobody can, and go on a slander bender.
most 'secret' knowledge as some may call it is clearly simple logic and if most take the trouble to actually study the source rather than books you will see the answer is staring you in the face.
anyway my comments may have come out rather harsh so in the spirit of all good things we will just say bygones!!

 

[PKFFW]

i dont belong to any secret sect with dodgy handshakes
but your generalisation clearly irritates people
i learned what i learned because i chose to learn as for sharing knowledge very few actually ask questions most assume because they cant then nobody can, and go on a slander bender.
most 'secret' knowledge as some may call it is clearly simple logic and if most take the trouble to actually study the source rather than books you will see the answer is staring you in the face.
anyway my comments may have come out rather harsh so in the spirit of all good things we will just say bygones!!

In the spirit of good wil,l by-gones be by-gones.

Cheers,
PKFFW

 

[SOCRATES]

As to the last, I concur. And I have no reason to believe that the testimonials are not sincere. However, post after post of private clubs and secret knowledge and shadowy figures is at odds with the image of the selfless mentor. If marcus wants to conduct his business off the board, that's perfectly okay. But that does not entitle him to launch himself into attack mode whenever someone advances a proposition with which he disagrees.

This thread is supposed to be about patterns, yet here we are, again, focusing on personalities. If marcus chooses to believe that all my posts are crap, that's his prerogative. But many people clearly disagree. So, I suggest that he get over it.

Db

Well, for my part, I have a propensity to disregard the majority public popular opinion, because in my experience, which is considerable, I find it is nearly always wrong. Sometimes the misconception of the public is clear and sometimes not clear. But I am not the puble, and therefore my view is very clear, and you know what it is, as I have expressed it many times.

 

[dbphoenix]

Well, for my part, I have a propensity to disregard the majority public popular opinion, because in my experience, which is considerable, I find it is nearly always wrong. Sometimes the misconception of the public is clear and sometimes not clear. But I am not the puble, and therefore my view is very clear, and you know what it is, as I have expressed it many times.

None of which has anything to do with what I posted. But then you just can't let this stuff go, can you, bertie?

OTOH, I think I speak for all of us when I express our relief that you are not the puble.

 

[SOCRATES]

None of which has anything to do with what I posted. But then you just can't let this stuff go, can you, bertie?

OTOH, I think I speak for all of us when I express our relief that you are not the puble.

Well, I have told you many times what my views are. I have views, I do not have opinions.
I have also explained to you the difference between one and the other. For this reason I have often expressed my dismay at the things you are apt to say to newbies, and what it is you are apt to post in general. It seems to me you are on a crusade to dumb down everybody you can. Fortunately there are a handful of us who cannot be corrupted no matter what you try, and this, is what serves to infuriate you, as you would like to have the boards all to yourself to be able to propound your outmoded and clumsy ideas unchallenged that come straight out of texbooks of one sort or another but have no real value in the world of live trading.

 

[trendie]

so, guys, about these patterns.

what approach to take?
do we take a pattern, and derive general conclusions that we can then test on other patterns?

is the originator of this thread trying to establish which patterns are more reliable?
or whether the big-guys use them to ensnare the unwary?