Praying won't help you...

[tar]

Tar My friend,
Not accepting religion or God does not make us bad people

I didnt say u r bad , i didnt even started a thread to talk about this , u r not fair to yourself only hope someday u c the truth .

 

[gooseman]

i have thought long and hard about this response and if it offends anyone it is not meant to:

religion=a whole bunch of c0ck

 

[rathcoole_exile]

love this saying:
"coincidence is God's way of remaining anonymous"

- Einstein

 

[Hoggums]

Personally I have nothing against god, it's his fan club I don't like....

YouTube - Evangelist Nut Jobs

 

[gamma]

Personally I have nothing against god, it's his fan club I don't like....

YouTube - Evangelist Nut Jobs

I must say some people on this forum say some throught provoking thing on this forum.

 

[Trader333]

Also who in "god"'s eyes is the greater criminal - a religious dictator who worships regularly but has directly caused the death of thousands of people, or the law abiding citizen who does not lead a religious life?

By your previous statement this cannot be answered because anyone who does answer it must be human and not God.


Paul

 

[Atilla]

Hi Atilla

This is God nobody ask or tell God what to do Can you if you wanted to tell God what to do? If not why not? Is he very sensitive that he doesn't like being questioned. Is he big headed that he chooses not to communicate with us low lives?,

God mentioned in the Quran how it is awaful to kill someone , Quran said who kills one person is like if he killed all humanity, the arab b4 Quran dont like to have daughters , because of this some of them killed their daughters after they born , Quran talked about this and how it is a very big sin , and all this stopped This isn't revelation though. Pretty much the same story world over. ,

God want us to stop these crimes No I don't think so. If you want something you do something about it. God doesn't want us to stop these crimes as if he did he wouldn't need anyone to do his will for him. Think about this please. Engage your thought process. Please think about what you are repeating. ,

Quran talked alot about these things , and if u look at the world u will c the vast majority live safely Yes but only because the attempt to take life will be reciprocated. People learn that from history the hard way. ,

God take care of humans Not all of them. God doesn't give anything away. ,

but anyway this is God wisdom he let some bad things happens here or there cuz there is evil humans (who commit these crimes ) out there need to be tortured in hell I would prefer justice to prevail in this life and I would like capital punishment re-instated. Where is your proof daddy Fritz will be punished? Proove to me where Hitler is being punished,

and for many other reasons , and to test all of us I thought our destiny was written in Islam. God knows all that we do and what is in our hearts so why the need for a test. What are we or he trying to prove? ,

look what u asked me about these bad things , this is God and he knows what to do God is confused I don't believe he knows what to do at all but leaves it to random chance - as there is no logic to evil or goodness and just rewards... ,

also he make some humans rich some poor so life on earth continues Just as you can't blame God for being poor you shouldn't blame him for being rich. As Marx said religion is the opium of the masses. If you look at most of the successful nations on Earth they are predominantly atheists or secular in their political social economic order. .

Many of those criminals get caught and punished even in life b4 the judgement day , some get punished by people and some get punished in life And a great many don't.

And after death they will get punished as well How do you know? Where is your proof? I beg to differ. ,

God punishment is very painful Any proof of this?

so dont worry they will take their punishment very failry . Concept of hell to the baddies is a cool idea but I like to see the evidence.

This is the whole conecpt of faith , maybe things bad happen to u , u should accept this from God Why? What if I don't believe in God and do something about it? ,

faith is not only u believe there is God only , this is not the point u should make him your God accept if he gives u little money , accept anything happens in your life , say thanks God always , and pray to him for the better , and ask him to bless u always , this life is test What is the criteria we are being tested on?

not heaven so bad things has to happen in this life , it is test for the all How are all the other people treated if they don't believe in God? ,

look how i looked at these crimes and how u look at it , i said these bad things should stop we should stop This is what I'm saying.

it we should follow the Quran , this is aginst humanity we should save innocent people , in the other hand u said y God doesnt stop it where is God ?! This is a rhetorical question. There is no God to stop it. There is your proof. If there was a benevolent God he would.

Hi Tar,

Thank you for replying and I can see you may have embraced the concept of God but from what you are telling me and correct me if I am wrong, you don't know why anything happens other than it is from God.

You say God only knows and you accept this in faith. There is nothing in what you said that makes sense. You are merely repeating what has been impounded into your brain by all those people around you that you love. You are effectively possessed with a mind that has been moulded by your environment and repetition.


Let me ask you again. What have you learnt from Baby P's death? What is your God trying to tell you by killing that baby in that horrific way.

Does this mean God told Baby P's mother and step father to carry out those acts so you may learn something from Baby P's death?

Then use your intelligence and figure out if God can get those two people to torture Baby P to death whey doesn't he just give you the lesson to learn so you can pass your test of life without having to witness Baby P's death.

I mean if God really wanted you to learn something from that horrific act why doesn't he subject your children to it so you can learn first hand. Why use somebody else's child to teach you a lesson. I don't mean to be rude but just to get to the core of the real issues.

Please sincerely think about what you are saying here. Don't go off on tangents just consider one death.

Then think about millions of deaths in the history of the world and all the injustices that have taken place. God let all that happen and we are still killing each other in war and in peace. God is not very good with his teaching and management skills.

 

[dick_dastardly]

Then think about millions of deaths in the history of the world and all the injustices that have taken place. God let all that happen and we are still killing each other in war and in peace. God is not very good with his teaching and management skills.

The invisible sky bloke should consider himself lucky he doesn't have run for the position of God every few years.

I think he and his ridiculous manifesto would've been booted out long ago.


dd

 

[tar]

Hi Tar,

Thank you for replying and I can see you may have embraced the concept of God but from what you are telling me and correct me if I am wrong, you don't know why anything happens other than it is from God.

You say God only knows and you accept this in faith. There is nothing in what you said that makes sense. You are merely repeating what has been impounded into your brain by all those people around you that you love. You are effectively possessed with a mind that has been moulded by your environment and repetition.


Let me ask you again. What have you learnt from Baby P's death? What is your God trying to tell you by killing that baby in that horrific way.

Does this mean God told Baby P's mother and step father to carry out those acts so you may learn something from Baby P's death?

Then use your intelligence and figure out if God can get those two people to torture Baby P to death whey doesn't he just give you the lesson to learn so you can pass your test of life without having to witness Baby P's death.

I mean if God really wanted you to learn something from that horrific act why doesn't he subject your children to it so you can learn first hand. Why use somebody else's child to teach you a lesson. I don't mean to be rude but just to get to the core of the real issues.

Please sincerely think about what you are saying here. Don't go off on tangents just consider one death.

Then think about millions of deaths in the history of the world and all the injustices that have taken place. God let all that happen and we are still killing each other in war and in peace. God is not very good with his teaching and management skills.

Hey

This is exactly what i am talking about , you reacted diffrently u even became against God and u dont believe in him because of these crimes , in the other hand i still belive in God and i feel sorry about those victims . This is a small example of the test , y test ? so good people got known and bad people got known , people who believe and follow God get known and people who hate and fight God get known , to whom get known ? Ofcourse not to God he knows already , but we should know cuz nobody will accept punishment without committing anything .
Did God killed those victims ? Ofcourse no he gave us a freewill, if so he will not give punishment to crimnals , but he didnt stop it yes , because he has his own purposes for example if he stop every crime crimnals and bad people will not get punished , and this life meant to be as a test and everybody in this life will die and nobody will live forever .
And what u guote from marx ! is totally wrong , the islamic state was v successful and rich with very low rate of crimes .
Also u keep saying ( what u learned ) , i didnt say learn i said test . Also here is some quotes from Quran ( in meaning ) about what u asked for ( Hitler .... etc ) :

(( And whoever among you does wrong, him shall We cause to taste of a grievous Penalty. ))

(( And that those who believe not in the Hereafter, for them We have prepared a painful doom. ))

(( And they who do not call upon another god with Allah and do not slay the soul, which Allah has forbidden except in the requirements of justice, and (who) do not commit fornication and he who does this shall find a requital of sin; the doom will be doubled for him on the Day of Resurrection, and he will abide therein disdained for ever ))

 

[Trader333]

I think he and his ridiculous manifesto would've been booted out long ago.

Didn't Satan try something like that ?


Paul

 

[dick_dastardly]

Didn't Satan try something like that ?


Paul

well, they do say all politicians are the same don't they?

I think George Bush ran Iraq better than this so called God is running things here on Earth. If he appeared down here tomorrow I would be first in the queue to throw my trainers in his face and call him a Dog!

dd

 

[Atilla]

well, they do say all politicians are the same don't they?

I think George Bush ran Iraq better than this so called God is running things here on Earth. If he appeared down here tomorrow I would be first in the queue to throw my trainers in his face and call him a Dog!

dd

That made me laugh DD. If God appeared on Earth then I'll hand you the shoes and you can throw it at him. Ofcourse I'll be right behind you... :cheesy:

Charles Darwin film 'too controversial for religious America' - Telegraph

Must see film...

 

[Atilla]

Hey

This is exactly what i am talking about , you reacted diffrently u even became against God and u dont believe in him because of these crimes , in the other hand i still belive in God and i feel sorry about those victims . This is a small example of the test , y test ? so good people got known and bad people got known , people who believe and follow God get known and people who hate and fight God get known , to whom get known ? Ofcourse not to God he knows already , but we should know cuz nobody will accept punishment without committing anything .
Did God killed those victims ? Ofcourse no he gave us a freewill, if so he will not give punishment to crimnals , but he didnt stop it yes , because he has his own purposes for example if he stop every crime crimnals and bad people will not get punished , and this life meant to be as a test and everybody in this life will die and nobody will live forever .
And what u guote from marx ! is totally wrong , the islamic state was v successful and rich with very low rate of crimes .
Also u keep saying ( what u learned ) , i didnt say learn i said test . Also here is some quotes from Quran ( in meaning ) about what u asked for ( Hitler .... etc ) :

(( And whoever among you does wrong, him shall We cause to taste of a grievous Penalty. ))

(( And that those who believe not in the Hereafter, for them We have prepared a painful doom. ))

(( And they who do not call upon another god with Allah and do not slay the soul, which Allah has forbidden except in the requirements of justice, and (who) do not commit fornication and he who does this shall find a requital of sin; the doom will be doubled for him on the Day of Resurrection, and he will abide therein disdained for ever ))

It seems to me you truly believe as you quote the scriptures and you have embraced the faith.

But as much as I try to understand and make meaning of your quotes and statements my minds' logic refutes as a plausible explanation of what is around me. I have discussed with friends of many different faiths and I have yet to hear a consistent logical arguement for the existence of God or a decent explanation for all the suffering on earth.

I'll take my chances with the painful doom. I'm still none the wiser as to what I have deserved to receive a painful doom though - just in case I am wrong... :idea: (I did vote for Blair once - I reckon that's got to be worth a few lashes...) :cheesy:

 

[mb325]

YouTube - Dan Le Sac vs. Scroobius Pip - Letter from God

It's a hypothetical 'letter from god to man'.

Pretty much sums up my thoughts on the subject, particularly from around the 1min mark.

Just an excerpt :

So I’m writing to apologize for all the horrors committed in my name,
Although that was never what I intended,
I feel I should take my share of the blame.
All the good I tried to do was corrupted
when organised religion got into full swing,
What I thought were quite clear messages were taken to unusual extremes.
My teachings taken out of context to meet the agendas of others,
Interpretations taken to many different ways and hidden meanings discovered

Religion became a tool, for the weak to control the strong
With all these new morals and ethics, survival of the fittest was gone
No longer could the biggest man simply take whatever he needed
‘cause damnation was the price if certain rules were not heeded
Some of the deeds committed in my name
just made me wonder were I went wrong.
Back at the start when I created this, the foundation seemed so strong.

Edit: link to full lyrics http://artists.letssingit.com/dan-le-sac-vs-scroobius-pip-lyrics-letter-from-god-to-man-31pmwdx

 

[gamma]

By using the word God in some way we are accepting that this being is concious and superior to us.
In the Hindu scriptures which are far ahead of understanding the universe and life, than any of the monothesist religions (Judiasm Christanity and Islam)
It says that God may just be a figurement of mans imagination
and we need this super power to give out lives meaning.

 

[gamma]

And another thing about this character, If he was responsible for creating the universe then he is pretty minded to spend all his time bothering about little humans.

 

[gamma]

And the God believing amongst us must have a very high opionion and must value themselves very highly, to imaginge that this divine being who has many universes to manage, spends all his time tormenting us.

 

[GladiatorX]

I've killed way to many religious people to believe that their may be a God protecting them. One guy started praying and i killed him, then i found a £10 on the floor on the way to my car...

 

[Hoggums]

I've said it before on this forum - but I have no time for someone/something who is so conceited and vain he insists we gather together once a week to tell him and sing to him about how wonderful he is.

To any truely enlightened being, this would be unnecessary and irrelevant.

 

[Technically Fundamental]

So what we have here is tar who is somewhat (but not very) knowledgeable in Islam, a bunch of other people who are completely clueless as to the history and evolution of the three major Abrahamic monotheistic (and I use the term loosely) religions although some people seem versed in eastern philosophy. I'd also go as far as to say that I doubt anyone has read two of the major books if even one. We also have a bunch of steadfast atheists.

to use trading as a metaphor, this convo is about as advanced as the first steps 5m ema crossover threads.

I really can't understand how people who have hardly committed to studying something can have such strong opinions and hold their unscholarly(?) opinions with such high regard and steadfast conviction.

I also don't understand why people automatically associate atheism with intelligence. Just goes to show that people who think that way know neither science nor religion.

IMO this conversation would probably have been a lot more interesting if people discussed why they believed what they believed rather than talking smack about other beliefs and why they are wrong. Same old "facts" ("Blah blah blah war!" "blah blah blah darwin is b0llox" "blah blah blah you just die") and no more understanding of others.

I've said it before on this forum - but I have no time for someone/something who is so conceited and vain he insists we gather together once a week to tell him and sing to him about how wonderful he is.

To any truely enlightened being, this would be unnecessary and irrelevant.

Mr Hoggums, you just reeled of a list of human emotions and conditions and gave an example of human reasoning. One of the fundamental teachings of religion is that as the whole human experiences is defined by the world we feel (as a result of our bodies and chemicals/hormones and our succeptability to emotion... basically being human) and observe (both philisophical and physically) we can never truly comprehend God as not only does He(as dogma dictates He should be referred) exist beyond our universe and beyond our observation. He is also capable of creating the universe(s?) by some as yet unknown means, also orchestrating pre-destination on a sub-atomic level therin (trivia: see newtons third law of motion & pre-destination). As such, trying to understand His actions, motives and/or basically "why anything" rather than the "how" is a redundant pursuit.

I believed in God because I'm comfortable with not being able to understand everything and I don't always need an answer.
Not a perfect analogy but do you think the fly by Mr Rothschilds desk knows why he's long weapons stocks?