One year officialy day trading

[15 min tlb]

If you kept your stops at least 30 pips away , and selected the highest probability trades , you wouldn't be moaning about spreadbetting companies.Get a 70 % hit rate system and keep your stops very far.

Total trades 359 ,october 2012 ,profit $35690 ,1 lot.

 

[kwickwool]

When I typed my post, I didn't even know what DMA meant but assumed it was a discussion about SB companies and brokers. I know SB is pure betting without entering the market and being with a broker may give you access to the market. So I used a bit of logic and assumed DMA = Direct Market Access

My Forex broker is supposedly an ECN but if I went with an SB company, I can't see why my results would be that different. There are more imprtant things to think about that will probably make me a better trader.

Jesus, I dont like to put any posts down but......... If you think there are more things to worry about than the very platform you use, integrity of data along with complete transparancy, then good luck to you.

 

[kwickwool]

If you kept your stops at least 30 pips away , and selected the highest probability trades , you wouldn't be moaning about spreadbetting companies.Get a 70 % hit rate system and keep your stops very far.

Total trades 359 ,october 2012 ,profit $35690 ,1 lot.

You are very right here, and when I do use them infrequenctly mostly for out of hours trading on the indicies I do exactly that as in big stops. Understanding the dynamics of the SB and working around that in your trading works, which i dont think many do.

 

[BeginnerJoe]

I do use them infrequenctly

If they are acting as an ATM for you, why use them so infrequently ? If I were in your shoes, I'd used that ATM 24/7.

 

[kwickwool]

If they are acting as an ATM for you, why use them so infrequently ? If I were in your shoes, I'd used that ATM 24/7.

I have transparancy, actual data feed and confidence in being exposed to the real market and also cheaper turnaround commission costs through a DMA broker. What i cannot get from them is out of hours trading which I can with a SB so use them now and again purely for that.

If I could trade DMA 24/7 I would but sometimes with indicies etc I cannot.

 

[BeginnerJoe]

I have transparancy, actual data feed and confidence in being exposed to the real market and also cheaper turnaround commission costs through a DMA broker. What i cannot get from them is out of hours trading which I can with a SB so use them now and again purely for that.

If I could trade DMA 24/7 I would but sometimes with indicies etc I cannot.

So the substantial tax savings would not offset transaction costs ?

 

[15 min tlb]

You are very right here, and when I do use them infrequenctly mostly for out of hours trading on the indicies I do exactly that as in big stops. Understanding the dynamics of the SB and working around that in your trading works, which i dont think many do.

Let us assume , the spread betting company screwed me on 100 losing trades with 2 pip slippage .that is only $2,000 out of $35k tax free.Bloody losers here!

 

[kwickwool]

So the substantial tax savings would not offset transaction costs ?

Dont like to talk tax etc but I am from UK, was in France when I first started my membership on this site. I spend most of my time abroad and residency is non UK status now all fully legal and in a region where there is no capital gains tax.

That being said though, for me even if I was still based in the UK i would push to find a way around it, legally for sure. To trade having complete confidence that you are exposed to the real market, not an indicative price data feed, your stops get hit when the market hits them and you have complete confidence that your only enemy in making money is the market. Would not give that up for anything.

Trading with a SB i use much bigger stops out of hours, >50 pips, and dont like to but sometimes................

 

[kwickwool]

Let us assume , the spread betting company screwed me on 100 losing trades with 2 pip slippage .that is only $2,000 out of $35k tax free.Bloody losers here!

You are missing the point, it is not just about a few dollars here and there as you get slippage on the real markets, it is about complete transparancy as per previous post and no indicative data feed. You against the markets and nothing else.

If the transaction costs were greater I would still use DMA, it is all about confidence.

 

[new_trader]

Does that mean you can demonstrate the existence of walk in bucketshops, the type described in Reminiscences of a Stock Operator ? I see no reason why a walk in bucketshop should fall foul of the online law.

No, I can't...so I suppose it must be the 11 Aircraft carriers..

The business case for that is weak. It would be vastly more profitable for them to get a casino into every Joe's bedroom or shed 24/7.

I suppose you are right...those who have invested $Billions in bricks and mortar Casino's should just walk away and go online.

It's more likely their government have not yet the need to to get the country to feed upon itself. But that would surely come, in good time.

Do you have any idea how ill-informed and idiotic your statement (no pun intended) is?

A country that is running a +$65 BILLION/month trade deficit has no need to 'feed upon itself'...wtf?

A country that is on tenterhooks over a fiscal cliff deal where one side wants to raise taxes on the "rich" because they need more money to cover budget deficits has no need to 'feed upon itself'...wtf?

A country that was once the richest creditor nation on the planet but is now the biggest debtor nation on the planet has no need to 'feed upon itself'...wtf?

A country that now has a record 47 million people living on food stamps has no need to 'feed upon itself'...wtf?

You haven't got the foggiest idea Joe, like I said, your motto is "BAFFLE them with BULLSH1T"...and 11 Aircraft carriers

 

[mike.]

. This is why bucketshop prices can have inhuman spikes in them while no such thing exists in the real market. There was an actual example of this only the other day.

Joe, I assume the spike you are referring to was with capital spreads mentioned in a thread the other day, supported by the screenshot, simon explained that a fat finger entry was made at the dealing desk which created the spike, He then went on to say that all bet's were null and void which were affected by it, winning and loosing.

What i was trying to understand is, why would they create a spike to knock a punter out when there are people in the opposite direction going to profit from the same manipulated spike ?

 

[kwickwool]

Joe, I assume the spike you are referring to was with capital spreads mentioned in a thread the other day, supported by the screenshot, simon explained that a fat finger entry was made at the dealing desk which created the spike, He then went on to say that all bet's were null and void which were affected by it, winning and loosing.

What i was trying to understand is, why would they create a spike to knock a punter out when there are people in the opposite direction going to profit from the same manipulated spike ?

Buddy please dont be niave, an untradable spike even if it is genuine is a god send for market maker, go further and imagine a spike in both directions, you knock out everyone by hitting their stops in both directions and make sure it is untradable, laughing all the way to the bank..........

But please someone tell me what is so wrong with the spike, what the real concern is? Someone want to hit the nail on the head?

 

[mike.]

Buddy please dont be niave, an untradable spike even if it is genuine is a god send for market maker, go further and imagine a spike in both directions, you knock out everyone by hitting their stops in both directions and make sure it is untradable, laughing all the way to the bank..........

Does that same spike not hit limit orders too ? Buddy.

 

[Mr Woozel]

Jesus, I dont like to put any posts down but......... If you think there are more things to worry about than the very platform you use, integrity of data along with complete transparancy, then good luck to you.

The discussion seems to be about whether it is better to use an SB or DMA so as to improve income/trading results etc. I don't think that the average/beginning trader and especially losing traders need to concern themselves with integerity etc nowadays, protection of funds maybe. Seems a bit ignorant now for anyone to think that SB companies or brokers make their money from foul play. I don't really care who is on the other side of my trade or if my broker can see my stops etc. Any hints of foul play and I would move to another broker.

These discussions just go in circles...

Finding an edge and using proper money management seem more important things to me. If (WHEN!) I get to the point where I can make a living or make additional income, then I will investigate brokers further.

 

[kwickwool]

Does that same spike not hit limit orders too ? Buddy.

Nowhere near the same ratio, buddy.

 

[new_trader]

The discussion seems to be about whether it is better to use an SB or DMA so as to improve income/trading results etc. I don't think that the average/beginning trader and especially losing traders need to concern themselves with integerity etc nowadays, protection of funds maybe. Seems a bit ignorant now for anyone to think that SB companies or brokers make their money from foul play. I don't really care who is on the other side of my trade or if my broker can see my stops etc. Any hints of foul play and I would move to another broker.

These discussions just go in circles...

Finding an edge and using proper money management seem more important things to me. If (WHEN!) I get to the point where I can make a living or make additional income, then I will investigate brokers further.

They go in circles because of people like you who have COMPLETELY MISSED THE POINT!

 

[kwickwool]

Mr Woozel, it is the season of goodwill, having a nice break myself from trading over the holiday period and chilling with a beer and don't know why for the life of me i am posting so much, just really enjoy these debates and not always have the time.

Dont worry about getting the point, open up a beer and enjoy the festive period.........

 

[brewski1984]

So can give a quick post explaining what the point I have missed is please?

If you had your own business and some guy was taking 50k a day/week out of your profits, would you let him carry on doing it?

 

[BeginnerJoe]

simon explained that a fat finger entry was made at the dealing desk which created the spike, He then went on to say that all bet's were null and void which were affected by it, winning and loosing.

Oh, it's only a rogue finger ? That's alright then. At least I find it more convincing than t2w's rogue junior explaination when they had their problems. Though, the bets weren't null and void until people started crying on the interwebs.

What i was trying to understand is, why would they create a spike to knock a punter out when there are people in the opposite direction going to profit from the same manipulated spike ?

There was no evidence there were people facing the other way, or they would be coming here to cry about their lost winnings. I doubt the bucketshop would make a spike without first checking the net effect of the move was in their favour. But, can you not see the danger when the bucketshop chooses to not shadow the real market at selective moments ? Who know which finger is doing what at when ? Isn't it scary they can create spikes with the press of a button ? What other amazing things can they do ?

 

[MANINYELLOWHAT]

Hello to all.. I ave been reading posts on this forum for the past 7 years,the advice and comments I have read here for free, has made me a better trader 100 times compared to nonsense money I have previously spent over the past 5 years buying courses,books,seminars etc... although I did learn terminology and many other things...I feel the "real" info on here gave me the upper hand to finaly succeed.
In 16 days I will be officialy daytrading for 1 year as a full time occupation. As of today the year has grossed me $147,000 before taxes. I trade the emini dow. I just feel I owe this forum my time to shortly describe my journey.

My first year I took my chances spread betting, I was sure I was going to make money because after paper trading for a whole month, I was making serious money, as a matter of fact I was surprised how easy this is, and didnt really care about signals,candlesticks,trends,stochastics and the rest...I finaly decided to open an account with 7000 euros I had saved up, after approximately 3 months my account was at 0.
I was flustered, came back to the forum, read books,seminars etc... paper trading was so so, I was wondering if my first paper trading gains were simply luck...
Seven months later I open an account again with 5000 euro I have saved and this time it lasted 4 months.... back to zero . my frustration was unreal, sleepless nights, and a awful feeling of failure.
determined to be successful I studied and studied, paper traded for 6 months and I barely broke even, I opened a real account again with 3000 euro , and that lasted 2 months... I gave up !!
I am a chef, and a good chef if I may say so, I was offered a job on a cruise line making 6 times the money I was making in Greece. I had saved 65 thosand u.s Dollars in 2 years, and decided to daytrade part time as my job was too important to be staying up all night and day trading and studying. I opened an account again worth 5,000 u.s dollars, after trading for 2 years my money became 43 thousand.. I asked to take a leave from my job for 1 year and they allowed me, and have a contract stating I can start my work after the 52 week period. During this past year is when I was daytrading for a living. I was 13 thousand shy of my regular pay, but I will admit the hours were the same if not more daytrading... But I enjoy it much more, and I am my own boss.
I decided to look at all my trades from the past, and what I was doing different. I was very surprised that in actuality I was trading the same, almost the exact way I have done in the past, except for a few things..but my "system" was the same. What I found was that I was trading "scared" and that is the reason why I wasn't successful. Maybe it sounds silly, but its the whole honest truth. My stops were way shorter, and my gains were way quicker taken out. Trading scared was iresponsible ... I now follow my system and knowing I will have losing days does not effect me, before tose losing days would cause fear ( lack of funds/income) I will go back to my job for a year again, and day trade on the side, then will decide for good. I just wanted to share this experience to those who may be going thru the same thing I did. I DO NOT mean trade without fear, I am trying to preach find steady income and trade money you cAn afford to lose, it will make a world of difference. Have a plan, stick to your proven plan...test it , back test it. The rest is psychological...more than I ever could imagine. Good luck to you all...Happy holidys !

why nothing beats trading 'real'. The main thing, as you have realized, is knowing how to shut off the emotions and follow your 'system'. Good luck on all of your future trade(s)!!
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