'No indicators' revisited

[Skimbleshanks]

To me those channels represent a zimmer frame - great if you need it to help you, but you're better off without them.

And of course, the way to trade using channels is to exit on the left hand edge, whereas everyone else exits on the right hand edge when the price 'drops' out of the channel. This is far too late, and the best way of trading is to exit on the left, enter on the right.

 

[SOCRATES]

so there is no rigid method - just put on size accoring to how confident u r?
i could say i am always confident other wise i wont put on a trade. so if i put all my money on the position, i will soon b bust after a small drawdown. i dont understand. guess i must think a bit more on this 1 by wot u mean

Read my two posts above again very carefully and then the penny will drop.

 

[SOCRATES]

What Skim says in addition to what I say above is also perfectly correct.
For example children learning to cycle on two wheels need stabilisers.
Once they have mastered the art of balancing the stabilisers are dipensed with.
Here you have to ride your own bicycle.
If you are to evolve as a cyclist, you cannot retain the stabilisers for ever can you ?
This excercise is similar. it can only be explained in this way because it is an abstract concept.
But ultimately to use the stabs or not is a matter of choice. It is for you to decide.

 

[Rognvald]

S&S
Thanks for that

 

[SOCRATES]

S&S
Thanks for that

OK. My pleasure. I am taking some time off today to answer your questions, live.

 

[Rognvald]

I continue to try to see price movement and volume as a continuum and visualise in my mind its smaller components forming as they are generated but its not easy

 

[Skimbleshanks]

Of course it's not easy. If it was, it would be taught on courses and in books. This style of trading is in the upper echilons and out of reach of the trading masses. It takes dogged determination, hundreds of hours of practice, and lots of time. And even then you find you've only just scratched the surface.

 

[SOCRATES]

Style of trading

Some people are athletes, some are musicians, some are artists, some are orators. others singers, and so on, we are talking here of the naturally gifted.
To express it in a way that ordinary people will understand,
You have to be a naturally gifted visual mathematician,
you have to have very highly developed biomind faculties,
you must have highly conditioned reflexes,
but above all you must have the right character.
If you do not pass the character test, you cannot ever succeed,
you may muddle along but the Star Chamber will remain firmly locked.

 

[a320]

you've only just scratched the surface.

So very true....

We really should take a minute to say thank you to this threads critics....
With out their input , I don't think we would of covered as much in such a short space of time. Probably more importantly....the lively debate seems to have a generated renewed interest in the darker arts :idea: ))

CJ

 

[chump]

"dogged determination, hundreds of hours of practice"

this is what I keep telling myself and to be fair it is working gradually ,but the hundreds of hours is now more like thousand + which is fine by me..the markets will still be there tomorrow etc

 

[Buk]

this was always an incredibly interesting thread....and has continued to stimulate & provoke alternative thought processes!!.....ditto a320's comments, a big thank you to those contributors who take the time & effort to post top quality information!!.....

 

[BBB]

Hmmmm. Maybe I misunderstood Socrates last post.

I've known lots of traders over the years, both good, bad excellent, and Jedi - mostly from LIFFE admittedly. One of the things that surprised me about the floor was the sheer diversity of people there - from all walks of life and corners of the globe. Admittedly the most common type was the 20-40 year old white male east ender, but still, a huge variety, and characters to match. So I dont think that there is a set personality type or character. What is necessary is both a determination and love of the activity. The money is just a by product.

I'd also point out that not all need to spend years and years learning. Some people pick it up very quickly, others struggle. Just like learning to drive. Maybe that depends on how you are taught, and how able you are to develop your own approach based on the basic teachings.

 

[bracke]

Skimbleshanks

"And of course, the way to trade using channels is to exit on the left hand edge, whereas everyone else exits on the right hand edge when the price 'drops' out of the channel. This is far too late, and the best way of trading is to exit on the left, enter on the right"

I understand what you are saying but if the price is rising/falling how do you decide to when to exit on a rising channel and when to enter on a falling channel?

Regards

bracke

 

[oatman]

Sell when it touches the top of the channel.

 

[chump]

"Sell when it touches the top of the channel"..nice thought ,but on which occasion

 

[oatman]

If you're following the channel, then that's how you'd use it. Just buy at the bottom of the channel sell at the top. The channel's defining the noise within the trend.

 

[bracke]

oatman

Definitely not. Look at the chart posted by Rognvald post 625.

The price touches the top of the channel at 1419 but goes on to 1451 and is still rising.

Being a mere mortal I would wait until it broke down out of the channel but would be interested to know how to pre-empt the move out of the channel.

Regards

bracke

 

[clylbw]

Hi SOCRATES,

Thanks really.

May I ask when you would like to go live if you have not done so today? If you would like to go live in a day soon, can it be after 3rd June? I truly wish to take part in such an invaluable opportunity, but am unable to do it live until after 3rd June.

Please let me know the specific time. Many thanks indeed.

 

[chump]

Try a chart to identify my question re which exit.....we don't know where the top of this channel is and to date we have one touch and one close rejection which may yet be simply a retracement in the channel before it proceeds higher...hence my question "which top" ?

 

[oatman]

I'm talking about utilising the channel to trade within a trend. Hold the trend but trade within it. If you were running, say 5 contracts, maybe take 2 out at the top and reinstate on the bottom of the channel, but continue to stay with the trend.

Chump, That's not a clear enough channel for me.