Ninjatrader is free to use, you just need a data feed going into it, like if you have an account with IB, that will work or some other data feed, NT has its own Sim101 account you can use to paper trade, to execute live real trades in NT, then you need to pay, a once off fee or you can lease it or whatever you want, but theres no real need to. I just watch the IB Booktrader and use NT for T&S, market analyzer and a couple of charts I keep an eye on sometimes.
No B.S. Day Trading
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Gerardo Cabrera
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Hi:
I am updating my blog and you can find explanation of how I use the indicators there. I will be posting more charts in the days coming.
tradergerry.blogspot.com
Gerardo Cabrera
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I just wanted to show you a trade that I just took just using this.
I missed the trade short at 8:07 when big sellers appeared since price did not retrace to hit my entry, but I got the bounce below.
By the way, I also use averaging down on levels of big support or resistance, and when I see these big lots dots.
Till yesterday I used to write the numbers above or below the dots, but yesterday I asked the programmer to print them and now they show with the Dot immediately.
I missed the trade short at 8:07 when big sellers appeared since price did not retrace to hit my entry, but I got the bounce below.
By the way, I also use averaging down on levels of big support or resistance, and when I see these big lots dots.
Till yesterday I used to write the numbers above or below the dots, but yesterday I asked the programmer to print them and now they show with the Dot immediately.
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thats fine i missed trade sometimes cause i always wake up late mostly.
i was buying around that level today. and get my profit at 1074.25
so i think ur fine if u get filled around 1072.50.
i also avg down slightly not a lot.
the overral trend today was bullish so basically ur buying on pullback.
if u see 60 min chart, it formed a rounded bottom. so ur following the 60 min time frame trend. so buying on slightly sharp pullback by avg down is ok.
i was buying around that level today. and get my profit at 1074.25
so i think ur fine if u get filled around 1072.50.
i also avg down slightly not a lot.
the overral trend today was bullish so basically ur buying on pullback.
if u see 60 min chart, it formed a rounded bottom. so ur following the 60 min time frame trend. so buying on slightly sharp pullback by avg down is ok.
Gerardo Cabrera
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It is a very helpful book if you are interested in order book scalping, i think the most helpful on this topic I have ever read. The actual strategies he talks about don't happen too often but it gives you an idea about what to look when finding your own high probability trades...
DionysusToast
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Some will tell you that DOM/L2 is useless.
If that was the case, then they would NOT be full of spoof orders. Why would larger players spoof the order book if it was no use to them ? The answer is - they wouldn't. They spoof the order book and make good money from it. The trick is - understanding what they do and the footprints they leave behind.
I have read the book mentioned - it's not bad for a start but there's a lot more to know about using the DOM (or L2) and how to use it with the actual flow of executed orders.
If you think you can use the DOM to just look which side is heavier and take that side, they you will get your ass spanked consistently.
There are games being played to hook you in, the people playing these games are making a lot of money and they KNOW all of the 'secrets' to trading you learn on websites like this one and all the crappy TA books out there. They know where your stop losses will be and they know how to make it look like the market is rolling over at key points so that you get short before they pile in on the long side with SIZE to take you out.
This is done day in, day out in many futures markets. Google Paul Rotter - he's the master of the game.
If that was the case, then they would NOT be full of spoof orders. Why would larger players spoof the order book if it was no use to them ? The answer is - they wouldn't. They spoof the order book and make good money from it. The trick is - understanding what they do and the footprints they leave behind.
I have read the book mentioned - it's not bad for a start but there's a lot more to know about using the DOM (or L2) and how to use it with the actual flow of executed orders.
If you think you can use the DOM to just look which side is heavier and take that side, they you will get your ass spanked consistently.
There are games being played to hook you in, the people playing these games are making a lot of money and they KNOW all of the 'secrets' to trading you learn on websites like this one and all the crappy TA books out there. They know where your stop losses will be and they know how to make it look like the market is rolling over at key points so that you get short before they pile in on the long side with SIZE to take you out.
This is done day in, day out in many futures markets. Google Paul Rotter - he's the master of the game.
montmorencyt2w
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DT,
You seem to imply that this is a game that only the big boys (like Rotter - crazy name, crazy guy...) can play.
Is that a fair summary?
Cheers,
Mike
Bullishbear
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Bullishbear
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DionysusToast
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In terms of who can play...
You need software like Xtrader and EPIQ so that your can safely spoof without too high a chance of getting filled.
You need the ability to place iceberg orders on the opposite side of your spoof orders, so as not to show your hand too clearly.
You need the ability to throw out spoof orders for 2000+ contracts.
You need the ability to trade in size to defend a level.
So - anyone with a couple of hundred million can do this.
You don't need that much money to piggy back these people though - you just need to understand what they may be doing.
Do you use X_Trader? A few guys I have seen that trade this way all use X_Trader, my question is can it be done using something else? As the cost of X_Trader is pretty steep, even if it is worth it, surely these guys didn't start out using X_Trader for $XXX a month? Unless they were instantly successful, which I doubt.
DionysusToast
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I don't use xtrader - anything with a DOM and uncompressed T&S would do.
Everyone uses X-Trader who trades the order book
That sums it up right there. One guy says no, any DOM and T&S will do, next guy says nope, EVERYONE uses X Trader who reads the order book.
Does that mean everything else is hopeless? You HAVE to have X_Trader if you want to read the order book? And my original question still, how did the guys who currently use X_Trader start out? Surely they didn't say "ok, I want to learn to read the order book, so I'll go buy X_Trader"? Unless they have an endless money pit for the monthly fees and the million losses while they learn it.
DionysusToast
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Ninja and Zenfire are fine if you want to read the order book.
Tradestation is good too - in fact, I'd say it is better than Zenfire & Ninja because you can see total volume at each level. On the other hand, Ninja does summarise the first 5 levels for you.
Downside of Tradestation is the amount of data subscriptions you need if you want to follow multiple markets across different exchanges. Zen Fire is effectively free with someone like Mirus because they take a cut of the trade fees.
You don't need Xtrader to read the DOM/T&S and place 20 lot orders. At the point you want to spoof the DOM & put on Iceberg orders, you will not be worried at all about the price of XTrader.
Tradestation is good too - in fact, I'd say it is better than Zenfire & Ninja because you can see total volume at each level. On the other hand, Ninja does summarise the first 5 levels for you.
Downside of Tradestation is the amount of data subscriptions you need if you want to follow multiple markets across different exchanges. Zen Fire is effectively free with someone like Mirus because they take a cut of the trade fees.
You don't need Xtrader to read the DOM/T&S and place 20 lot orders. At the point you want to spoof the DOM & put on Iceberg orders, you will not be worried at all about the price of XTrader.
These guys are probably right.
All i was saying is that I trade out of a prop firm and I know a lot of other traders with similar styles at various prop firms. I trade the order book and I would never trade it without X-trader. I have also never met a good trader who doesn't use X-trader for that type of trading (doesn't mean they don't exist though). TT have a patent on their program specifically on the idea of a static ladder. You can get systems that look like their program but the ladder moves with the market. I would find this unacceptable when trading the order book so until their patent expires I would only trade and recommend getting the real deal.
I agree it is a massive rip, so fingers crossed someone can find a way to copy them!
Just my 2 cents
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