Name something "Permanent"

Atilla said:
Decay requires two points right? Start - end... We talking quantum physics now an element being in two places, in two different states at the same time?
If I may, something for "wackypete2" especially based on the film Matrix, the oracle noted the following:
For anything that has a beginning must have an end.
The oracle here is talking about impermanence.
So there is meaning in what is said.....just because one doesn't yet know what it means doesn't mean it is meaningless or of no use. They just don't understand that they do not understand......lets remove the ignorance.....shall we!...:!:
 
aliasentric said:
Is looking for something permanent a good thing? I don't have the answer to that, as it would depend on what your true motivation is and how you would react to something permanent, if you actually found it.
Yet you appear to have found it but can't answer if its a good thing? Furthermore, why would motivation be an issue? What exactly is it?
aliasentric said:
Regarding morality, it does not change just because people's views change. I am talking about true morality, not someones "view" of it. Most do not have this truth, or do not have it in its entirety, and therefore do not have anything permanent. Because they change their views every time it seems convenient or comfortable to do so.
Morality and true morality are human constructs. We could stick with morality and no need to say "true" morality. Without consciousness, there will be no morality.....so morality can't be permanent.....we need an example here to clarify.
aliasentric said:
The definition of respect. Well, I think it is pretty clear what respect means, you can look it up in the dictionary. Obviously, if you pick any definition of respect, it's clear that a mass murderer of innocent people would not be showing respect for human life. Whole nations of people have violated this principle. It doesn't change the principle, just because a whole bunch of people decide to commit genocide simply because they think their race is superior. No, their view doesn't change this permeant principle of morality.
What is your views on cause and effect here?
aliasentric said:
Most people do not want the truth, and refuse to believe it even if they are enlightened. If knowing the truth would mean you would have to change your entire life, and your view of the world you live in, and it would be very uncomfortable and challenging, and you'd face ridicule from your peers, would you still accept it? Believe it? Embrace it?
I would have thought one would need to change their life first before the truth is known. Yet you appear to show it the other way round.....sounds like a believe to me. Please continue.
aliasentric said:
I don't think it would be productive for me to point out to you, the truth that I know that is permanent. It would not be comfortable for you since it would go against everything you currently believe.
I believe in nothing so there is nothing to throw away!.....please proceed.
aliasentric said:
If you have 100 people in a room and you ask each person a question, and you get 100 different answers that all conflict, it is obvious that they cannot all be right. Not everyone in that room has something permeant, in fact, only 1 of them could possibly have it. So, you have 3 choices.

1) come up with your own answer
2) pick one of the 100 and go with that
3) do the work necessary to find out who has the truth

So, to find something permanent, you need to find the truth. You need to search for it. You need to prove it to yourself. You need to be able to defend it from ridicule and you need to embrace it with every essence of your strength. Otherwise you will lose it, even if you do find it, and you are back to being temporary.

Are you willing to put in the work, and deal with the pain that comes with it? Is it worth it to you? Only you can determine that. I can't do it for you. All I can do is tell you I know there is something permeant, and give you enough evidence that it indeed exists. Me telling you what it is won't do you any good, unless you are ready to accept it, and deal with what comes with it.
Am not sure if truth can be simply TOLD and accepted.....surely it must be "KNOWN" ?
aliasentric said:
Think again about the room with 100 people. What would your reaction be to 100 different and conflicting answers to your question? If your reaction would be to be more determined to find what really is the truth, then you would be on your way to finding something that is permanent…
Thats interesting.....more please.
 
Pat494 said:
Take ageing for instance. If science succeeds in making life permanent ( barring accidents ) then what ?
We would be stuck with the same ageless dictators for ever, Tony Blair could never become Pope. !
I doubt Science can make things permanent.....because they don't yet understand why it is there in the first place. (but it actually isn't there!)
Pat494 said:
Parents could be metabolically younger than their children ( keep taking those purple pills grandad ).
Well, Morpheus from Matrix did say that there were only two pills, the red one and the blue one. There are no purple pills!
 
Strictly speaking, finite is non-permanent, infinite is permanent. Infinity could be considered a mathematicians nightmare.
 
I doubt Science can make things permanent.....because they don't yet understand why it is there in the first place. (but it actually isn't there!)

Well, Morpheus from Matrix did say that there were only two pills, the red one and the blue one. There are no purple pills!

Red n Blue make purple! ... or was it brown stuff?
 
Atilla said:
Everything is a human construct.
It is interesting that you have noted this but from what I can see, am not sure if you really see the "depth" here.
Atilla said:
Man even created God to create the universe for him so it all adds up in his lil human brain.
Someone says that doesn't mean it is true to you, it may be or maybe not, but one could go and find out. I don't know the answer here because I have tried to ask in this thread as someone appears to know.....see how it goes.
Atilla said:
How does a piece of pebble lying on the beach relate to it's environment?
There must be an answer for everything? surely. Right?
Why not?
Atilla said:
Somebody must have surely thought about and asked this question right?
I like to hear it in the words of the pebble not yours. See if you can get google to translate it for you?
Surely you must be curious to know what the pebble has to say or think about it's existence.
Yet the pebble can't talk back. We call it pebble and it wasn't the pebble wanted to be called pebble. The pebble can't answer any questions, nor that of existence because it doesn't have consciousness.
Atilla said:
Also how comes they are all different shapes and sizes? Is it possible to find two identical pebbles. Is it possible to find two snow flakes? Two twins?
Surely someone has to find this **** out and tell us.
We need to know. Now!
Am sure there are answers.
Atilla said:
The evolution of the human species depends on this ****. Come on guys get your act together. **** happens.
And you believe in "evolution"? well, we must be looking at it at the wrong angle or maybe do not understand what we are looking at.
Atilla said:
We need to find out where it comes from and where it goes.
I agree with you!
 
If I may, something for "wackypete2" especially based on the film Matrix, the oracle noted the following:
Quote:
For anything that has a beginning must have an end.

Multiply 2 by itself continuously.
So we have a clear start/beginning, but where's the end?
What number do you get at the end?

The only thing I see here is that you've watched the Matrix many times and have deluded yourself into thinking it's the Official Handbook of Philosophy.


In reference to another recent thread here...teh lulz is back!

Peter
 
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Yet you appear to have found it but can't answer if its a good thing? Furthermore, why would motivation be an issue? What exactly is it?

Morality and true morality are human constructs. We could stick with morality and no need to say "true" morality. Without consciousness, there will be no morality.....so morality can't be permanent.....we need an example here to clarify.

What is your views on cause and effect here?

I would have thought one would need to change their life first before the truth is known. Yet you appear to show it the other way round.....sounds like a believe to me. Please continue.

I believe in nothing so there is nothing to throw away!.....please proceed.

Am not sure if truth can be simply TOLD and accepted.....surely it must be "KNOWN" ?

Thats interesting.....more please.

Edit: Whether it's a good thing or not, depends on from what perspective you are looking at it. For example, what your reaction is to it. The truth is good, but is only viewed as good by those who embrace it.

Motivation is relevant to what the results will be. One can say they are motivated to look for something, but not really look that hard for it, or look for it in all the wrong places. Furthermore, one could think they are "motivated" to find something, but once they find it or see evidence of what it might be, realize they'd wished they'd never found it in the first place, since it wasn't what they wished it would be. I don't claim to know where you stand on this, and don't expect you to necessarily know either. No way for me to know where your are at in your self realization process, the same process we are all in as individuals. And if you did tell me where you stand, there would be no way to know if that was true or not until you actually find what you are looking for, and demonstrate your reaction to it.

True morality is at the core of the truth and is not a human construct. Once you realize this, you can be more ready to accept truth. Only looking at things from a human standpoint hasn't resulted in the acceptance of true morality, but rather has made morality seem temporary, something that can be changed on a whim. But the true permanent morality hasn't changed. People try to change it. But just like if someone lies to everyone around them, gets everyone to believe that lie, does that make it true? No. It's still a lie. Likewise, the whole world believes lies, as I already mentioned with my "100 people in a room" illustration. The room with the 100 people stands for the world we live in. Everyone believing something different does not change what the truth is, and only proves that most people do not have it. The truth is permanent and can not be changed by what people choose to believe.

Again, morality from a human standpoint is whatever is accepted by the masses. In fact, it doesn't even need to be accepted by most people, just enough people that one can surround themselves with, in order to feel comfortable.

Without consciousness, there would be no morality, you say? Obviously if we didn't exist, we'd not be having this conversation. But there is consciousness. We do exist. So, we have this conversation. So, we are not talking about what it would be like without our existence, since if that were true, as I said, we'd not be talking and the question wouldn't be on your mind, as you wouldn't have a mind. Further, the fact that you do have consciousness, and awareness, has caused you to ask this question in the first place, so your existence and awareness is more evidence that the question is relevant, can be answered and that you should continue looking for it, if it is important to you. We spend our whole lives searching for satisfying answers to questions. Once we stop doing that, we might as well not exist at all, since nothing really matters to us anymore, so what's the point?

People can still change their lives without knowing the truth. People can also be sincere with limited knowledge of true morality. But what I am saying is that the truth, which is permanent and doesn't change, if it becomes known and accepted, will cause one to make more changes than they never would have thought necessary or possible.

Truth can be known without being accepted. You can know something is bad for your health, but do it anyway. Does no good to know the truth if you cannot accept it which involves living by it. What's more, it can be terrifying to someone, even to get a glimpse of the truth, and see all of the changes that it would mean would be necessary for them if they accepted it. So, many avoid it at all costs. Spending their whole life running away from it, and ridiculing anyone who tries to show it to them. But most of the time they are pretty comfortable, since they surround themselves with people who feel the same way. Easy to ignore important questions, when everyone else around you is doing the same thing…

It's also about responsibility. With something permanent comes responsibility, and commitment. Most people do not want any "permanent" responsibility or commitment. Since that would mean they don't have the option to change their mind if it gets too hard. Or change their "view" if it becomes convenient. That's why most promises are broken at some point. So, until one is ready to actually commit to something permanent, they will not be able to accept something that is permanent, since finding, knowing and accepting something permanent, would mean they have to commit permanently…
 
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Multiply 2 by itself continuously.
So we have a clear start/beginning, but where's the end?
What number do you get at the end?

The problem here is the number 2 isn't a "thing" !
So there is no start, with no start, there is no end.

Do try to "understand" next time.
 
It is interesting that you have noted this but from what I can see, am not sure if you really see the "depth" here.

Someone says that doesn't mean it is true to you, it may be or maybe not, but one could go and find out. I don't know the answer here because I have tried to ask in this thread as someone appears to know.....see how it goes.

Why not?

Yet the pebble can't talk back. We call it pebble and it wasn't the pebble wanted to be called pebble. The pebble can't answer any questions, nor that of existence because it doesn't have consciousness.

Am sure there are answers.

And you believe in "evolution"? well, we must be looking at it at the wrong angle or maybe do not understand what we are looking at.

I agree with you!

Perhaps pebble is communicating but in another frequency to yours. Plants communicate but they don't talk.

How do you know it doesn't have consciousness? There are many living animals that fail the mirror test. Humans don't have self awareness until 18months as per studies.

Humans live for 100 years. Pebbles no doubt live for - at a guess million of years. Perhaps it's not 18 months yet in human years. :whistling

Be patient and keep your perceptions wide and open. Pepple may yet evolve. :idea:

Good things come to those who are patient, persist and persevere permanently during their finite existence. :smart:
 
Recording of my mother in laws voice ..... :?:
To make a recording of it doesn't make it permanent. What happens when the recorded material is gone? Voice no more! Furthermore, it is only a recording and its not the true voice either. There is no voice!
 
To make a recording of it doesn't make it permanent. What happens when the recorded material is gone? Voice no more! Furthermore, it is only a recording and its not the true voice either. There is no voice!


The recording does extend the memory of the voice for sure. In-case one forgets, one can playback the recording of the voice and what was spoken.

The recording material ie., the mother-in-law is inconsequential as it is her voice that is the subject matter here.

The true voice is also inconsequential as we are discussing the memory of the voice which can be retrieved either held in memory or a recording into appropriate device.
 
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