Mr Charts Training

[Marketmaker2004]

Tim,

I completely understand where you are coming from. I dont know how long ago you trained with Richard but from your posts it seems like not too long ago! I know exacly what you mean because one year ago I was exactly like you and thought how wonderful Richard was. I thought Richard was the best teacher. I will be surprised if you think the same thing 6-8 months down the line. The reason I know is because I am in contact with quite a few of Richard's ex-students. We all feel similar.
A good teacher is defined by how well he can teach and most importantly teaching is not only theoretical but practical also. That is where experience comes in. If people learnt by just learning theory, we would all be a fat-arsed nation of experts by reading books. However it is a fact that people learn by not reading from books but by doing and learning practically. That is one of the areas where Richard's course fails. Since you say you have been to Naz you would then know what I am talking about and thus the difference between trading with Richard and Alan. Alan will show you in practice LIVE. That’s the way it should be done.

Tim you are missing the underlying point in my post. If you read my post carefully I never said Richard was a crap teacher or Richard's strategies were crap or that Richard was a crap trader. I didnt blame these things on Richard. Richard is none of these things. He sayes he teaches the same strategies, methods, money management in the same manner that he trades. We have to take his word that he does. Obviously he posts such fantastic moneymaking trades so he must be an elite trader.
However the fact is that unless Richard's coaching is practical how can his students succeed. Yest he refuses to acknowledge this. In the example I gave in my previous post where many of us got together to get him to trade live to show u, his excuse for not demonstrating live was that he might fail in front of us and not be able to find any trades. I nor the others understood this as this is the fact of life of trading and we said that was fine. We were prepared to pay to sit and go through an eventless day!! However Richard continued to say that he wouldnt do it.

As has been pointed out by people such as Neil and Oatman above and yourself it is the practicable aspects that count at the end of the day. If you don’t know how or when to pull the trigger you are screwed. These are the things that should be taught shouldn’t they? The practicable aspects? They say hindsight is such a wonderful thing. Over a year on I have come to the conclusion that having a one-2-one practical session together maybe with even small trades is the best way. You gave an example of footballers. Good analogy but the thing you missed is that footballers are shown the methods by the coaches PRACTICALLY and THEN the footballers practise 24 hours a day.

MarketMaker2004

 

[pkfryer]

Interesting posts. This is obviously something that we many have strong opinions of.

I agree with the view that a teacher should be judged by the success of the students. A teacher has responsibility for the success of the student. As far as mr charts is concerned his emails do try and convince you that you will succeed if you use his methods and for £950 you would expect this. Who is going to fork out almost a thousand pounds if they dont think they will succeed by the technique??

If all you get is something you can get from a book, then you may as well save yourself £900 and get a bl**dy good book on the subject and read that! The whole point of 1 to 1 sessions is practical demonstrations and tailored tuition to your particular needs.

I am sure that we would not have learned to ride a bike if we hadn't had our mother or father holding the seat when they took off the stabalisers! We would have probably kept falling down and gave up! What you need is 100% practical tuition, where the teacher takes you by the hand and guides you through live trading, decision making when faced against uncertainty... live trades! 1 to 1 = practical.. if all you get is theortical then you read a book or attend a seminar!

To put the teacher - student thing into perspective! Would we be so happy if a flying instructor had students with a high failure rate!!!?? But of cause the teacher can't be blamed can he :S Wake up!! If a method is so good and a teacher so good... the student will almost be guaranteed to succeed! Why should trading be any different? If its subject judgement of a situation.. this can be taught!

Judge a teacher by the students success... that is the only sure gauge of their worth.

 

[Salty Gibbon]

Hold on.

Supposedly 95% of would-be traders fail for various reasons.

They probably all take varying routes along the educational roads and then for some reason or other, they all fail.

I do not think that you can attribute a 95% failure rate to poor teaching or poor education.

There is obviously more to it.

Basically, I believe that no matter what your trading education, when it comes to the crunch and you put your own money on the line, it is then totally down to you. The gut-wrenching feeling of placing your hard-earned money at extreme risk can make you throw all your education out of the window and act in a reckless manner.

It is more down to psychology than education and whether or not you have got the balls when the chips are down.

 

[JJL3142]

Learn to think for yourself ..

I suppose this board is a reflection on reality ..

Teachers are not infallible - they are human - people here expect the price of the holy grail to be cheap as possible (or £950).

I have never met MrCharts but he is always very helpful on the boards - like many others - but there are a few people who expect their cakes and to eat them (while they are hand held) ... If you have a gripe about something - dont hide behind your nicks - talk to MrC (I will assume he is a reasonable man ) - Too many keyboard warriors/wingers who expect everything on a sliver platter and their butts wiped !!


[Sorry its been a long day in front of a screen - final say is "BE A MAN" !!]

 

[timsk]

Hi Xroads,
1. Gamblers Fallacy
No, I am not for one minute suggesting that the probability of success is 50/50 following training from Mr. Charts. Far from it! It may be more, it maybe less, it's impossible to calculate. I took his training expecting the bias to move in a positive direction, but that's all. The point about mentioning the gamblers fallacy was to try (desperately) to get people out of the mindset that if '95% of students are successful, I will be too'. Or, conversely, 'if 95% of students are unsuccessful, I will probably be unsuccessful as well' and therefore I won't do the training. I would agree with you completely if, IF Mr. Charts coached people on HOW to trade. As I've said repeatedly, he does NOT do this. He teaches people how HE trades. If you accept that he is a successful - i.e. profitable trader - there is no link between him and his students. I repeat; ask his students if they understand how HE trades. I'd be very surprised if less than 95% responded in the affirmative. Therefore, by extension, he is not only a successful trader, but a successful coach as well. It is NOT his responsibility that students do not duplicate his methods exactly and achieve similar results to him.

2. Live Trading
He posts trades in real time as he enters and exits them with charts. If you check the time/date stamp then you can verify them. I (and I assume all his other students) am more than satisfied that he can 'walk the walk 'on this basis and isn't a bull**** merchant. I suppose he could be fiddling this in some way to dupe prospective students. This is little short of fraud and extremely serious, if true. As for trading live while coaching, well, he tends to visit students in their homes, whereas Naz receives students to his own home. It would hardly be reasonable to expect him to trade live on a platform he's never used!

3. Exit Strategy
"Some of what Mr. Charts teaches is downright dangerous". Again, I repeat, he teaches how HE trades. If the exit strategy you describe didn't work for HIM, why on earth would he use it, let alone teach it to others? As Richard says at the top of page one on his notes; ". . . it is the individual client's own responsibility how they trade". He doesn't' insist people use this or any other exit strategy, he merely tells them what works for HIM. If one/some of his strategies don't work for you, don't use 'em!

4. Post Tuition
Students go to Mr. C' to learn how HE trades. He is successful at trading the methodology that he teaches. Surely it is logical then, that if said student goes out and follows the methodology to the letter, then they too will be successful? This is, of course, the tricky bit and the chief reason why those who fail, fail. But that's NOT Mr. C's fault! He is not responsible for the actions of the student. The student IS. It's the student's fault they failed, not Mr. C's.

5. Commitment etc.
Yes Xroads, it's good to agree on something! I guess we'll have to agree to differ on the other points.

Hi Marketmaker 2004,
After my reply to Xroads above and my last couple of posts, my comments to you may come across as being contrary just for the sake of it! I apologise in advance if this is how it appears. I normally shy away from controversy, but I've felt a tad guilty about not sticking up for Mr.C' in the past as he's received a torrent of criticism - most of which is completely unwarranted, IMO. Anyway, to respond to your comments. I had my 1-2-1 with Richard in early December 2002, before you, I suspect. You say you're in contact with quite a few of Richard's ex-students who feel as you do. Well, now you're in contact with one who feels differently! I completely agree that theory is no substitute for practice and 'live' experience. Executing 100's of live trades is invaluable and necessary experience to become successful, but this will take weeks, months or even years. A few hours on one day with one coach is neither here nor there in the overall sceme of things and will make little or no difference to the novice trader. I say this from experience; remember I've had a 1-2-1 with Naz as well. I don't believe I've accused you of saying Richard is a crap teacher, so I'm not sure where this comment comes from???? As for fellow ex-students clubbing together to get Richard to trade live, you are making reference to a private members web site which, you will know as well as I, is confidential. I don't propose to break that confidentiality agreement by discussing it's content on these boards. Sorry if that sounds like a cop out, but tough! The last para of your post concerned the practical aspects of trading. I can't speak for others, but with me, Richard provided umpteen number of charts printed out showing exact entry and exit points to accompany the written notes. Anyone whose been in this game for more than five minutes will have read numerous times already that ten traders trading the same instrument with the same methodology will all enter and exit trades differently. Obviously, it's not possible for Richard to be at the side of all of his students and tell them the exact moment to pull the trigger. Again, it's not what he offered to do and, ultimately, it isn't helpful to us. We have to learn to stand on our own two feet as traders and take responsibility for our own actions.

Happy and successful trading everyone!

Tim.

 

[triplepack]

Hi Evaliq,

I think the cat is well amongst the pigeons, excellent lively discussion. I'm sorry I havn't been on Mr C's Course but I have been on Naz's.
Having been on Naz's course I feel that it had been worthwhile, not becaues he traded and made money on the day, but because he was able to give me perspective. Having been floundering ,as I am sure many have done and will do, he was able to guide me in the direction I needed to go.
I would say that 75 pct of what he taught/showed me I had come across before. Whether on the internet or in the many books I have read. I'm sure the remaining 25 pct is also there. I believe Mr C will be the same.

What I feel that these trainers can do for us though, is to show us the basic tools and approaches all available on the WWW (except the experience bit) ,along with the psychological aspects of trading which they have used/experienced themselves. It is then up to the individual to go on further with this basic toolkit and develop themselves
Each individual will have a different approach, a minor change in pulling the trigger, use of 5min or 1min charts , a different psychological make up. Any of these I'm sure can cause a potentially succesful trade turn sour. Which it is why I believe
that it is important to find your own path. Modify what you have been taught which is working for you, make it stronger
reflect, develop, practice - hard work. The trainers will not make you a winner but they will give you the tools and direction
to enable you to do that.

Cost , well having lost many times the course fee in my pre Naz lifetime, I felt that one more duff deal wouldn't make a difference , but in the event just one of the many pearls of wisdom from Naz paid several times over the course cost. I am sure Mr C's course will have the same result . It would be interesting to see if any of Mr C's students would agree with that. Has Mr C's course put the student at a loss (assuming trades have been done afterwards) or paid it's course fee by itself.

Cheers

Triplepack

 

[FTSE Beater]

I wonder if Mark ( aka FTSE Beater Mod ) would be willing or kind enough to express his thoughts ???

Thanks

CJ

Certainly Sir

The T2W seminar review is a good place to start (http://www.trade2win.co.uk/reviews/product.php?id=133), and I still stand by what I wrote.

Hi Everybody,
I was interested in taking up training with Mr Charts, but I am not sure anymore. I have got the information from Mr Charts. Bur when I asked 2 of Mr Charts' s ex-students they said they were not making money from his strategies. Can people who have trained with Mr Charts please tell me if any one is making money from his strategies (or not) except Mr Charts himself?

I dont want to end up paying 950 pounds and then find out its a waste of money or that the information he will give is available on the internet or in books.

Thank you,

Eva

Hi Eva

It really comes down to what your looking for.

Are you looking to trade the US?
Do you have the available time to do it?
Do you want to be relaxed in trades, or do you prefer the fast and furious?

These are the sorts of questions that you need answer before picking a coach.

What most people do is pick the coach, and then use their method, whether it suits them or not. The best thing to do, is find out what style of trading you like and one you are happy doing (e.g. Long term, tick trading UK stocks, US stocks, indicies, currencies, commodities etc.) then find a coach who specialises in this area.

The other option is to go on a course like Alan Farley's where he talks about methods for all types of trading.

The cost of the coaching depends on your trading capital. If you have only £1000 to invest, then spending £950 of that on a course with Mr.C would be pointless.

I'm sure what Mr.C teaches is available on the web...somewhere, so feel free to go looking. Only 92,993 posts on T2W to look at ...and that's just for starters

---------------------------------------------

I think Neil sums it up nicely in this post http://www.trade2win.co.uk/boards/showpost.php?p=103286&postcount=16

----------------------------------------------

I can confirm that Mr.C has posted charts up in real-time, as the ticker time is spot on and the post time recorded just 2 minutes later. Well, either he's been posting in real-time or he is a wizard with some paint software....I know I couldn't fake a good trade in 2 minutes

-----------------------------------------------

]Again, I beg to differ. Some of what Mr Charts teaches is downright dangerous. Take his exit method - close half your position when you see two bars against you. Two bars against you in a trend is a retracement, and is exactly when many successful traders will be entering a position!

The 2 down bars are to make sure you bank at least some of the profits. Maybe other traders are just getting into position for the next trade, but what Mr.C teaches is a method for banking profits.
One of the statements he said has just come back to me he said

At the end of the day, I have a family to support and I have to take profits to put food on the table

...and isn't that what most are looking for. Consistent profits

------------------------------------------------

To sum up, IMHO, Mr.C shows you his method and the money management behind it. It is then down to YOU to place the trade and manage the position. This says it best

Basically, I believe that no matter what your trading education, when it comes to the crunch and you put your own money on the line, it is then totally down to you. The gut-wrenching feeling of placing your hard-earned money at extreme risk can make you throw all your education out of the window and act in a reckless manner.

It is more down to psychology than education and whether or not you have got the balls when the chips are down.

I know I've missed out large sections that people have commented on, and I apologies for not giving a full and complete answer to all the points raised...but it is 22:45 on a bank holiday Monday, and I'm only getting older

 

[LevII]

A very interesting thread but the original question appears to have been lost in the discussion by all save MarketMaker2004. As a reminder, the question was:

Can people who have trained with Mr Charts please tell me if any one is making money from his strategies (or not) except Mr Charts himself?

Is anyone other than MarketMaker2004 prepared to answer?

 

[neil]

Read the reviews

A very interesting thread but the original question appears to have been lost in the discussion by all save MarketMaker2004. As a reminder, the question was:



Is anyone other than MarketMaker2004 prepared to answer?

http://www.trade2win.co.uk/reviews/product.php?id=133

Maybe the course is not for you since you seem to need certainties. Trading cannot provide them. You seem afraid to face yourself - thats what trading is about; decisions. Can you make one?

 

[JonnyT]

A very interesting thread but the original question appears to have been lost in the discussion by all save MarketMaker2004. As a reminder, the question was:



Is anyone other than MarketMaker2004 prepared to answer?

No, but I haven't given up the day job so cannot do this yet.

I too have a family to feed!

There is no doubt that Nasdaq stocks can move dramatically at the opening bell and money can be made. Have a look at the old favourite SINA. I reckon a monkey could make 100c 3 times a week trading Mr Charts methods (forget the news)

I really think that trading cannot be taught in 1 session, its down to you to make it work. Using real money is not the same as a course. Can you pull the trigger, can you quell your emotions.

JonnyT

 

[Uncle]

Eva..........I would suggest your question has been answered by the lack of positive replies to you originial question!!!

John

 

[Timnotnicebutdim]

I was coached by mrcharts about two years ago,it was the turning point for me becoming a profitable trader,if occasionally i have a bad period it is because i am not following the rules,it all boils down to discipline.

The system is straight forward,the difficulty for most people is keeping focused and staying emotionless,after a losing trade you must stay calm and understand that losing is part of the game and equally after a winning trade not to become euphoric and lose the focus.

 

[LevII]

Timnotnicebutdim,

You wouldn't be "Martinwalker" of "Glasgow" under a different nick would you? He had a life changing experience too.

If you are, Seancass has been hoping to meet you.

http://www.trade2win.co.uk/boards/showthread.php?t=8924&page=2&pp=15&highlight=martin+walker

 

[LevII]

JT

On the one hand:

I reckon a monkey could make 100c 3 times a week trading Mr Charts methods

But on the other:

I haven't given up the day job ... I too have a family to feed!

Surely $3,000 per week is enough to feed even a quite greedy family?

 

[Salty Gibbon]

I really think that trading cannot be taught in 1 session, its down to you to make it work

Very true.

Anybody who thinks they can hand over £ 950, receive around 8 hours of 1 on 1 training and expect to be an accomplished trader is living in dreamland and can be regarded as one of those Holy Grail seekers.

 

[adrianallen99]

If 100 people take the course, all of who are losing traders before hand. After the course 10 become profitable traders. Does MrCharts get the blame for the 90% that are still losing or the credit for the 10% that have become profitable.

(I made those figures up by the way)

 

[bracke]

adrianallen99

Would that not be a 10% success level.

To put it into perspective one would have to compare it to other coachers/teachers of the same subject.

Regards

bracke

 

[seancass]

Lev 11

I must say that I thought exactly the same!! Echoes of Martin Walker. I wonder where he is? He flies a Cesna doesn't he? is there anyone on this board from Air Traffic Control who might be able to locate him, as I have been trying to contact him for some time?

It would appear from the posts on this thread that there may be dissatisfaction/concern among some of Mr. Charts' former students; I personally know of one - a member of this board - who is contemplating writing to him directly on this issue.

May I make a suggestion? There are two courses of action that would appear to me to be available to those who have spent a substantial fee for a professional service and who may be dissatisfied with the service provided.

First, they write to Mr. Charts outlining their dissatisfaction and allow him, as the provider of the service and advice, to address concerns satisfactorily.

Second, If they are still dissatisfied then clearly they may consider the civil remedies which may be available to them. However, I do think it is important that Mr. Charts be permitted to address any criticisms in the first instance.

It concerns me that Richard has not used the opportunity to defend his position on this thread, It could be , of course, that the man is on vacation. I know that when similarly under attack he has chosen to remain low. However, that can in itself be damaging and can exacerbate the situation. If you are reading this thread, Richard, may I make a constructive suggestion aimed at damage limitation? Why don't you arrange a day of collective revision of your methods of trading, at your expense, for those former students who may be harbouring dissatisfaction with any aspect of the service you have provided to them. They can then attend in order to revise your methods and allow you the opportunity to address their various concerns. This could turn a potentially embarrassing and destructive situation into a PR success. And off course, those who clearly are satisfied with the service you have provided will not be inclined to attend. Of course the difficulty is in assessing how many would avail themselves of the gesture. Would you be required to hire a small room at an airport hotel or the Albert Hall?

I make this suggestion purely as one who has advised others professionally on PR matters.

Seancass

 

[LevII]

Sean,

You're not suggesting it is one of those Cessnas with a roundy roundy thing on the front are you? Nothing less than the latest model Citation for MW.

LII

 

[Uncle]

Seancass................Now what a reasonable challenge you have set for the Mentor...............I wonder whether it will be accepted in whole or in part??????????

I await any further outcome with interest.

John