Mr Charts Training

[EvaLiq]

Hi TimSK, Just because I might like Naz and Alan, it doesnt mean I am going to pay them to go on their course. I want to find out if it is going to be of any use to me. In my view I am asking the right questions because I want to spend my money wisely. If there are successful students then indicates the quailty and maybe the content of the teacher. At least that is what I used to think upto university and what I thought up to now.

Eva

 

[Marketmaker2004]

Hi EvaLiq,

I also felt I had to respond to this thread. I had a sesion with Mr Charts (Richard Joyson) last year. Like the others on the Seminars here I was very enthusiastic before and immediately after the seminar since Richard had made out on these boards that there were great gains to be had by trading in the US and importantly it was so so EASY! You only have to do a seach for User Mr. Charts and the word 'easy'! I am not going to go into the seminar becaue it has already been described nicely by the other people in the seminars area. I would add that during the seminar Richard DID NOT trade live to show how he would trade. What he did do is to go through his news stocks and select the positive and negative news ones but then at the end just said well hypothetically if I had put money on this stock I would have lost this much money on this one gained this much on that one etc... Infact I believe that Richard NEVER trades live in any of his seminars. I believe he had a public seminar last year. Of course it wasn't free!

All his students become members of a 'special' members website which I am not going to reveal here nor to anyone who asks but I will say that the majority of his ex-students are very very unhappy about the fact that they have not made any money from 'his' strategies. An attempt was made last year on his members' website to try to get Richard to show us live how to trade. I might add that this was not free we all offered to contribute money for his fee. Unfortunately he flatly refused and made a huge fracas and even had the person who raised this issue on the website temporarily banned. One more thing. I find it incredible that Richard seems to spend all of his time and effort posting his trades on this website and tacticaltrader.com yet he hardly ever posts on his members website supporting and providing help to the 50-60 people who have paid just under £1000. It seems he expect all of us to support each other and use each other's shoulder to cry on!

Regarding Richard's strategies, they are all available on the web and on this website. Whether his strategies work or not is another matter. I would be happy to talk to any of his ex-members to see if they are making money from Richard's strategies. I bet that more than 95% arent making any money - USING RICHARD's STRATEGIES. Most of the people are struggling or have turned to training other gullible people themselves!

Nevertheless I am not sorry I did Richard's course. It was concise and to the point and I may have ended up spending much more time searching for the information. I am more sorry that he charged so much money to take advantage of gullible people for common information that is available everywhere. My advice is to make sure you spend your money wisely. Make sure you know what you want. There are members here who will help you for free and not try to grab your wallet. Reminds me of these sex shops who try to get you to spend your money as soon as they see you have some money in your hand whether you need to or not! Anyway talk to people like Sharky, Chartman, Skimbleshanks, Naz amongst many others. These people will help you. If you need help contact me and I will try to help you - yes for free...!

Eva, IT IS MOST IMPORTYANT THAT YOU DONT GET SUCKED INTO THE TRAINING WITHOUT LOOKING INTO IT. TRADING IS NOT EASY AND CERTAINLY NOT AS EASY AS RICHARD MAKES OUT. IF YOU DO DECIDE TO GO AHEAD WITH RICHARD GET HIM TO TRADE LIVE SO YOU GET TO SEE IF HIS STRATEGIES WORK OR NOT AND HOW MUCH POTENTIAL GAINS THERE ARE (IF ANY).

Best wishes,

Paul.

 

[TheBramble]

If you see my original post, I did not ask anyone about guarantees. One person I talked to mentioned that Mr Charts had trained more than 100 people. Statistically it is a large enough sample from which to see if people who have been to Mr Charts are making money or not using his strategies. It is a simple enough question I asked. So far I have had a few messages and together with the posts here I have not seen any evidence to the original question I asked. So my question still stands!!!!

Eva, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Perhaps the 100 figure was just plain wrong.

Perhaps it was right the majority don't wish to respond.

Perhaps those who would respond don't fancy spending a sunny Sunday checking out t2w boards like us no-lifers do.

You only posted this morning!

I'm sure you will get (mostly by PM) the reviews you are looking for. Most people will want to be a little more discrete with any specific views than posting on this thread .

 

[LittleWhiteBull]

Dentist007

did you work in the same Dental practice as Mr Charts before he gave up dentistry for trading?

 

[CityTrader]

Over 100 people? £950 a punter???? hmmm, that makes.. £95,000 No wonder he teaches rather than trades! Maybe I should have pursued my coaching idea's...

Let me know if anyone wants to pay £949 for a one-one course to be titled something like " How to get one up on the market makers" - By an ex market maker. !!!!

 

[neil]

Hi Neil,

Before you buy a washing machine you find if it is going to be useful to you. You check if it will suit your purpose. You check if it is going to be value for money. Of course you might not be able to operate the washing machine. But that is not another matter. So if you are saying that by doing these things you become doubtful then so be it. That is your way of thinking.

I asked a perfectly valid question. If I am going to pay for service then I would like to make sure that it is going to be good for me.. That is the way I am. I did NOT say that I am doubtful did I? Yes I did a search on here and from a lot of the posts Mr Charts implied it was easy....

Eva

You still have to operate the machine after choosing it.
I repeat - the Traders biggest obstacle is himself - everything else is simply a disciplined way of getting out of a trade.

 

[JonnyT]

I attended Richards course last year but I haven't been told about his website!

Richard, please provide me a logon to your web site!

JonnyT

 

[Crossroads]

Marketmaker2004 is quite correct in all he says. I personally have not shelled out for Mr Charts training, but I know several members of the 'special' members website that has already been mentioned (none of them profitable), and have seen the course notes Mr Charts provides. His method can be summed up as "trade breakouts on news stocks". There, I just saved you £950.

XRoads

 

[Trader333]

His method can be summed up as "trade breakouts on news stocks".

This is not correct and is too simplistic an explaination of what is included on the course. Also, before anyone asks, I am not MarketMaker2004.


Paul

 

[JonnyT]

Agreed it is too simplistic to say Mr Charts methods (notice the word methods and not method) is breakouts on news stocks.

I have backtested some of the methods on certain stocks and they were profitable.

JonnyT

 

[Simon]

Eva,

I posted my thoughts, on the training I had with Mr. C last year, somewhere on these boards, might be of some use, albeit probably limited, if you can track it down.

One criticism (of myself?) of the techniques taught, that sticks in my mind, is that I found I was spreading myself too thinly by trying to follow a not insubstantial number of stocks & found greater potential success would have been possible by concentrating on a more limited number of instruments.

In terms of gaining knowledge & developing an appropriate strategy, my current recommendation would be to read the 'No indicators' threads thoroughly & continue your learning along similar lines.

 

[timsk]

Oh Dear, Oh dear . . .

I understand completely that people want to ask the questions which will provide the answers to enable them to make the decision as to whether or not Richard's course is for them. I felt exactly the same way before taking the plunge. I mean EXACTLY; asking the same basic question that was posed at the start of this thread re. the success - or lack of it - of past students. What I've since found out is that the success or otherwise of past students is completely, totally and utterly irrelevant to me and my personal situation. This is the point that so many people seem to find so hard to understand. If all Richard's past students are now immensely profitable trading his methodologies - it does NOT follow that his next student will be too. If most are losing money (as is incorrectly asserted above) - it doesn't mean his next student will lose money to. The opening paragraph of the substantial set of notes that Richard provides his students states:

"All trading is speculative in nature and involves substantial risk of loss. Please note I do not give investment advice. I teach how I trade and it is the individual client's own responsibility how they trade".

Forgive me for labouring the point, but the key words here are "I TEACH HOW I TRADE". The pertinent question to ask former students is this: 'Having attended Richard's course, do you understand how Richard trades?' If 95% of them say no, then you might conclude he is a poor teacher and the course isn't worth the money. However, I suspect his success rate is close to 100%. Richard never promised me anything other than to teach me HOW HE TRADES. This he did very well in my opinion. What I do with this knowledge is my own responsibility. I find it quite extraordinary the way people moan that just because they've paid the course fee this entitles them to a passport to instant wealth. It's naive to think it's that simple! So many people are unwilling to take responsibility for their own actions and are quick to blame others when things don't work out as they had envisaged. Richard does not take responsibility for the actions of his students. How on earth could he? Ditto for all other tutors, teachers and mentors etc.

I believe strongly that Richard, Naz and others should be put under the spotlight and their methodologies examined closely. This is right and proper IMO and, I suspect, a view with which they would both concur. But peeps, be reasonable, judge them by what they claim to do, not by what you thought they would do. Don't project your hopes and aspirations onto them and then blame them when they don't materialise. Lastly, to dismissi his course by summing it up in a few words or suggesting that he teaches rather than trades isn't accurate or helpful for anybody.

Tim.

 

[neil]

Head and brick wall

Well done TIMSK - I wish I could have put it so accurately.

I hope some of the wannabees here do not dither as much when making trades.
Like picking washing machines or cars - trading is largely governed by your SELF.

One tries to help

 

[oatman]

I'm pleased someone said it. All the knowledge in the world is no good if you can't pull the trigger, and I've seen plenty "freeze" over the years.

 

[theknifemac]

Timsk you have hit the nail on the head there, well done !

 

[LittleWhiteBull]

Richard does not take responsibility for the actions of his students. How on earth could he? Ditto for all other tutors, teachers and mentors etc.

Yes but I think most would or should question whether we should send our kids into a classroom with a teacher whose students failed consistently at the subject he taught wouldn't we? I don't think teachers have the luxury of adding a disclaimer that it is the student's responsibility to learn the subject and the teacher cannot be held responsible for failure. Of course the student's ability to learn and to continue to develop what has been taught is what it's all about but if the teacher is good, the student will not forget what was taught - I think that is true for most who are willing to seek their training and especially when they have paid for it.

I think it is important to know how people have got on with Richard and Naz's training as they use this website for marketing.

I had a 1-2-1 training day with Naz last week, it was very helpful, yes he did trade live, yes he did make money (lots) and quickly. I did learn how to do it but I have to invest more in the tools to do the job now, but already I am making more profitable trades, albeit only demo still - which I intend to do until I have proven to myself that I can consistently trade a profitable system which suits me, using the knowledge that Naz gave me.

 

[a320]

I wonder if Mark ( aka FTSE Beater Mod ) would be willing or kind enough to express his thoughts ???

Thanks

CJ

 

[Simon]

I understand completely that people want to ask the questions which will provide the answers to enable them to make the decision as to whether or not Richard's course is for them. I felt exactly the same way before taking the plunge. I mean EXACTLY; asking the same basic question that was posed at the start of this thread re. the success - or lack of it - of past students. What I've since found out is that the success or otherwise of past students is completely, totally and utterly irrelevant to me and my personal situation. This is the point that so many people seem to find so hard to understand. If all Richard's past students are now immensely profitable trading his methodologies - it does NOT follow that his next student will be too. If most are losing money (as is incorrectly asserted above) - it doesn't mean his next student will lose money to.

Quite right Tim, however, past performance is no guarantee of success & all that, although the probability of success is far enhanced if the vast proportion of Mr. C's students have been successful, & vice versa. Would you not agree?

On a slightly different note & referring back to my earlier post, I've just reviewed the 'No indicators' thread & it has become a little 'Fighting without fighting' lately, however I hope this does not prove a disincentive for anyone to read through it.

 

[timsk]

Hi Simon,
I understand your point completely and, on the face of it, what you say appears logical; obvious even. However, (you just knew that was coming, didn't you :cheesy: ) I fear you are falling prey to gamblers fallacy. I expect you know what this is, but for the benefit of newer T2W members who don't, it goes something along these lines. Mr. Punter at the Roulette wheel notices the ball lands on red 10 times consecutively. Gamblers fallacy dictates that surely the ball will land on black on the 11th spin of the wheel and he bets accordingly. It doesn't, and he loses. Now, having landed on red 11 times in a row, Mr. Punter is even more convinced that the ball will land on black on the 12th spin of the wheel and bets accordingly. This goes on ad infinitum, usually with Mr. Punter betting more heavily each time, convinced that the ball can't continue to land on red time after time. But it does and Mr. Punter leaves the casino in disbelief and with empty pockets. The probability of the ball landing on black with the next spin of the wheel does NOT increase over time. It is ALWAYS 50/50 (excluding the 0 which I believe is white).

Whilst one might be encouraged by Mr. Charts' students becoming successful traders, their success (or failure) has little or no bearing on our own probability of success. There is one very simple reason why some students fail. They are not Mr. Charts. Period; end of story. No one will trade like Mr. Charts except Mr. Charts himself. He says his methods are "simple". They are. He says it's "not rocket science". It certainly isn't. He says there are big profits to be made intra day, not everyday perhaps, but several times a week at least. He's demonstrated this time and again very plainly, very openly, for all to witness on these very boards. Naz too for that matter. The ones that succeed may be able to duplicate his methods better than the ones who fail, but ultimately, their success is down to them and their unique abilities.The problem, as Neil pointed out earlier in the thread, has absolutely nothing to do with Mr. Charts, Naz or whoever. The problem and, most importantly, the solution, lies within each one of us. I believe that I have the potential to be a good trader. I am not a clone of Mr. Charts and I don't want to be one. (Okay, there's a tiny lie here, but that is just jealousy on my part because I'm not as successful as he is). I'm ME, you are YOU. Mr. Charts, Naz and the like can't make any of us successful traders an herein lies the rub. . . this is something we all have to learn to do ourselves. You could have a day's coaching with David Beckham. You wouldn't expect a premiere league club to come knocking on your door wanting to sign you up the day after, would you? Yet aspiring traders expect to be profitable straight after a day's coaching with Mr. C!!!! However, in time, you might become a great footballer and even eclipse Mr. Beckham. The coaching may prove to be pivotal in your career but, ultimately, your success will result from your own dedication, focus, tenacity, drive, commitment etc., etc. In this respect, trading is no different to football.

Tim.

 

[Crossroads]

Hi Simon,
I fear you are falling prey to gamblers fallacy....... The probability of the ball landing on black with the next spin of the wheel does NOT increase over time. It is ALWAYS 50/50 (excluding the 0 which I believe is white).

A different situation entirely. You are suggesting that the liklihood of success after training from Mr Charts is a 50/50 gamble, that success is random. If Mr Charts trains 100 students the law of averages suggests that a certain percentage of those should have a higher chance of success than the others no matter who teaches them. If 99 fail, then this means there is a high probability they are failing because of what they have been taught. I am not suggesting these numbers are in fact the case, but we do know that there are more than 100 past students, and at this time not one has come to this thread to say they are trading the methods successfully. Perhaps that means something, perhaps it does not.

He says there are big profits to be made intra day, not everyday perhaps, but several times a week at least. He's demonstrated this time and again very plainly, very openly, for all to witness on these very boards.

He has never demomstrated this in a live situation. Posting on a forum is not the same as trading live, and proves little or nothing. Naz trades live in front of his students, Mr Charts does not. Whether he hs the ability to trade himself or not is, to a degree, besides the point. If you wanted to learn German, would you be happy if you paid a language teacher a large sum of money to explain some gramatical rules (which could be found in a book), list some vocabulary (which could be found in a dictionary), but never actually speak German? Certainly the lesson might have some value, but it would have a lot more value if there was some practical element, otherwise what is the added benefit?

The problem, as Neil pointed out earlier in the thread, has absolutely nothing to do with Mr. Charts, Naz or whoever.

Again, I beg to differ. Some of what Mr Charts teaches is downright dangerous. Take his exit method - close half your position when you see two bars against you. Two bars against you in a trend is a retracement, and is exactly when many successful traders will be entering a position!

Yet aspiring traders expect to be profitable straight after a day's coaching with Mr. C!!!!

Because in his pre-sales emails (at least those I have seen), this is what he tells you will happen. He suggests that almost all of his students become consistently profitable within a few months.

The coaching may prove to be pivotal in your career but, ultimately, your success will result from your own dedication, focus, tenacity, drive, commitment etc., etc. In this respect, trading is no different to football.

Tim.

Something we do agree on at least!

XRoads