Mike Baghdady - should I take a course or not?

[DionysusToast]

I have a screening of breaking out of a prior days range included with my Trade Navigator (Genesis) trading platform. ..... and people pay upto 5k for this. I'm lost for words. The trading vendor industry is more corrupted than I wildly imagined.

Well you would presume they didn't get to test drive it before buying it.

Not every Jack gets lucky when they buy magic beans.

 

[pboyles]

I have a screening of breaking out of a prior days range included with my Trade Navigator (Genesis) trading platform. ..... and people pay upto 5k for this. I'm lost for words. The trading vendor industry is more corrupted than I wildly imagined.

I think most trading platforms can do it, at most you'd need to download a free indicator. I'm sure the MT4 could do it and that's free.

 

[pboyles]

Still, looking on the bright side at least if the 'lifetime licence' isn't honoured the customers can get something else with more functionality for free.

 

[The Leopard]

Can I just clarify, is this 5 grand one-off, or is it 5 grand annually for use of the software?

 

[DionysusToast]

Can I just clarify, is this 5 grand one-off, or is it 5 grand annually for use of the software?

You think someone would renew???

 

[wackypete2]

Not every Jack gets lucky when they buy magic beans.

If Jack is playing with his magic beans I think he's in the wrong thread :whistling

Peter

 

[timsk]

With regard to the TT software and its cost - I'm not sure what the issue is here? Perhaps I've overlooked something, but it strikes me that there are two possibilities here:
1. The software does a great deal more than has been indicated thus far, and these - as yet unknown features - account for its cost. Or . . .
2. It is pretty much as has been described and is mind numbingly expensive compared to other software that will do the same (or similar) thing for a fraction of the cost.

If the first scenario applies - then fair play to TT. If the second scenario applies, then double fair play to TT - so long as they didn't make their sales of the software by making false claims about its effectiveness, or saying it will do something it can't do etc. Obtaining money by deception is illegal, obviously, and completely unacceptable. But, as far as I know, there's no suggestion of that.

The bottom line is that while there appear to be a number of questions surrounding Mike B' and his colleagues regarding their trading skills, if scenario 2 is correct, there can be no such questions regarding their spectacular sales skills. Sales in this business is largely about perception. If someone thinks that by paying X $1000s they'll have an edge that they won't get from a free product or service that does the same thing - then they'll gladly pay it.
Tim.

 

[scose-no-doubt]

With regard to the TT software and its cost - I'm not sure what the issue is here? Perhaps I've overlooked something, but it strikes me that there are two possibilities here:
1. The software does a great deal more than has been indicated thus far, and these - as yet unknown features - account for its cost. Or . . .
2. It is pretty much as has been described and is mind numbingly expensive compared to other software that will do the same (or similar) thing for a fraction of the cost.

If the first scenario applies - then fair play to TT. If the second scenario applies, then double fair play to TT - so long as they didn't make their sales of the software by making false claims about its effectiveness, or saying it will do something it can't do etc. Obtaining money by deception is illegal, obviously, and completely unacceptable. But, as far as I know, there's no suggestion of that.

The bottom line is that while there appear to be a number of questions surrounding Mike B' and his colleagues regarding their trading skills, if scenario 2 is correct, there can be no such questions regarding their spectacular sales skills. Sales in this business is largely about perception. If someone thinks that by paying X $1000s they'll have an edge that they won't get from a free product or service that does the same thing - then they'll gladly pay it.
Tim.

Well done, Timsk.

 

[pboyles]

If the second scenario applies, then double fair play to TT - so long as they didn't make their sales of the software by making false claims about its effectiveness, or saying it will do something it can't do etc. Obtaining money by deception is illegal, obviously, and completely unacceptable. But, as far as I know, there's no suggestion of that.


Tim.

Where have you been for the past year and a half?

 

[the hare]

With regard to the TT software and its cost - I'm not sure what the issue is here? Perhaps I've overlooked something, but it strikes me that there are two possibilities here:
1. The software does a great deal more than has been indicated thus far, and these - as yet unknown features - account for its cost. Or . . .
2. It is pretty much as has been described and is mind numbingly expensive compared to other software that will do the same (or similar) thing for a fraction of the cost.

I watched a recent webinar by Mr B, in which he covered some of the features of the software. IIRC in addition to the stuff already mentioned, the software can detect various setups and automatically open trades (wow!).

I'm amazed that anyone would be insane enought to pay 5K for something with less features than a platform they could download for free. 5K could buy some very useful software.

I do agree with you. if Mr B was able to market and sell this as a trading platform then he deserves credit. There's a wide range of platforms with a spectrum of price's and many in my opinion dont offer value for money, but people still buy them, and mainly as a consequence of marketing.

On the other hand, if Mr B marketed this as some sort of "automated trading system" or as an integral component of his method (and I dont think he did, he simply allowed the punter to mistakenly believe that), then he needs his knackers chopped off with a rusty scythe.

I assumed as a former t2w partner, youd be aware of the products he was promoting, or doesnt anyone actually check (or care) ?

 

[timsk]

Gentlemen . . .
I think you have perhaps misunderstood the point of my post and I apologise if I didn't make myself clear. I'm merely trying to add clarity to a thread that has meandered all over the place and, to my mind anyway, has rather lost its way. I started my post with 'With regard to the TT software and its cost - I'm not sure what the issue is here?' It's a genuine question - I think it's important to establish what the significance of the software and its cost is as, potentially, this could impact the other allegations being made about Mike B and TT.

Please note that I was at pains to point out: ". . .so long as they didn't make their sales of the software by making false claims about its effectiveness, or saying it will do something it can't do etc. Obtaining money by deception is illegal, obviously, and completely unacceptable. But, as far as I know, there's no suggestion of that."

So, if there is any suggestion that software was mis-sold and/or that it doesn't do what TT claims that it will - then this needs to be made clear. Additionally, is the software and its cost central to the other allegations surrounding Mike B and TT - or is it an entirely separate issue?
Tim.

 

[pipsplease]

I watched a recent webinar by Mr B, in which he covered some of the features of the software. IIRC in addition to the stuff already mentioned, the software can detect various setups and automatically open trades (wow!).

I'm amazed that anyone would be insane enought to pay 5K for something with less features than a platform they could download for free. 5K could buy some very useful software.

I do agree with you. if Mr B was able to market and sell this as a trading platform then he deserves credit. There's a wide range of platforms with a spectrum of price's and many in my opinion dont offer value for money, but people still buy them, and mainly as a consequence of marketing.

On the other hand, if Mr B marketed this as some sort of "automated trading system" or as an integral component of his method (and I dont think he did, he simply allowed the punter to mistakenly believe that), then he needs his knackers chopped off with a rusty scythe.

I assumed as a former t2w partner, youd be aware of the products he was promoting, or doesnt anyone actually check (or care) ?

There is an auto function that takes trades as per the breakout rules set by Baghdady but if you use this all the time, the system does not work. In otherwords, it will not give you his claimed 70/30 win ratio.Don't have a go at me these were the words of Baghdady himself. I do not know anyone getting anything like a 70% win ratio. More like a 70% + losing ratio!!
So why the "auto function"? A little like bells & whistles - it all helps to add to the perceived value to the punter buying it.

 

[scose-no-doubt]

Gentlemen . . .
I think you have perhaps misunderstood the point of my post and I apologise if I didn't make myself clear. I'm merely trying to add clarity to a thread that has meandered all over the place and, to my mind anyway, has rather lost its way. I started my post with 'With regard to the TT software and its cost - I'm not sure what the issue is here?' It's a genuine question - I think it's important to establish what the significance of the software and its cost is as, potentially, this could impact the other allegations being made about Mike B and TT.

Please note that I was at pains to point out: ". . .so long as they didn't make their sales of the software by making false claims about its effectiveness, or saying it will do something it can't do etc. Obtaining money by deception is illegal, obviously, and completely unacceptable. But, as far as I know, there's no suggestion of that."[/I]

So, if there is any suggestion that software was mis-sold and/or that it doesn't do what TT claims that it will - then this needs to be made clear. Additionally, is the software and its cost central to the other allegations surrounding Mike B and TT - or is it an entirely sperate issue?
Tim.

If you're admitting you didn't make yourself clear then why did my post get deleted and why did I receive another infraction?

 

[the hare]

Additionally, is the software and its cost central to the other allegations surrounding Mike B and TT - or is it an entirely sperate issue?
Tim.

I think it starts to be an issue if Mr Baghdady & Co where selling this, knowing that in all likelihood, they'd be unable to provide the lifetime support.

There are allegations that the product is time locked, requiring the re installation every few months. If this is true and training traders goes into liquidation, then concievably, there may be punters who paid 5K for a product that stops working after a couple of months.

Lets be realistic, software doesnt last a lifetime, there are factors well outside of the control of the developer that may result in problems running the software in future (changes in operating sytems etc). At the other end of the scale its rather ridiculous if software only runs for 2 months.

Perhaps Mr Baghdady will allow whoever developed the software to continue to provide ongoing support, or maybe he'll be a complete **** and hinder the process. That remains to be seen.

It could of course be argued that a vendor who sold a software product for 5K and whose functionality is no better (and probably worse) than other platforms which are available for free, would probably also be prepared to sell low quality training and educational materials that are also available for free.

If that is the case, then I would say that the cost of the software is central to the other allegations.

 

[the hare]

In otherwords, it will not give you his claimed 70/30 win ratio.Don't have a go at me these were the words of Baghdady himself

His argument for the 70% win rate is as ridiculous as saying all cats have 4 legs. My dog has 4 legs, therefore my dog is a cat.

 

[pipsplease]

There is an auto function that takes trades as per the breakout rules set by Baghdady but if you use this all the time, the system does not work. In otherwords, it will not give you his claimed 70/30 win ratio.Don't have a go at me these were the words of Baghdady himself. I do not know anyone getting anything like a 70% win ratio. More like a 70% + losing ratio!!
So why the "auto function"? A little like bells & whistles - it all helps to add to the perceived value to the punter buying it.

I did of course ask the "official spokesman" and director (current / former?) Malcolm Steel about this in my questions set out two days ago.
We have not seen or heard from Malcolm Steel since. He seemed overly exercised about the actual whereabouts of Mr Baghdady.

Just to be clear Mike Baghadady is in New York.

10. Is your "lifetime license software" covered by a suitable and legal guarantee of provision?

Come on Malcolm, we miss you. Please come on and answer some of the outstanding questions.

 

[Digbyarbuthnot]

It's all curious isn't it? Baghdady can sell a course and software for £10grand, yet he is perpetually poor and can't afford to pay his bills, suppliers, staff or fund the turtles?

If he had 20 people a month doing a course at £5k and 10 of them took the software, then that's £150k per month. I understand and accept that there is money to be made from teaching people how to trade, but my calculations makes an annual turnover of approx £1.8million. Obviously staffing costs, operating expenses & advertising needs to be paid for (something Mr B seemed especially poor at) out of the £1.8m.

Given how many people TT owes money to, I ask - Where Has The Money Gone? Tony Michaels told us earlier this year that Ben Tuckey put in £500k into the business and that's obviously gone too. The Turtles were never funded properly so it didn't go there either.

Maybe it went on legal fees to protect Mike Baghdady's stellar reputation? That's a lot on lawyers! But I guess it's a wonderful reputation to protect and it seems as though several people on this website have felt the effect of Mr Baghdady's legal team.

Maybe it went on a recent flight to New York from London?

 

[pboyles]

Here's a video, make your own mind up about its capabilities.

Day Trading Software - Training Traders

 

[pboyles]

Oh dear, here we go again

"We do not use traditional indicators. They do not work consistently and are mainly lagging indicators. Our Price Behaviour method of Trading is based on the recognition of price momentum and our clever software package assists us in this and allows us an Edge over most others trading the same markets.

If it’s good enough for Professional Traders at leading Financial Institutions then it might just be good enough to give you an advantage. Please review our client list."

Training Traders, Long Term Trade Software, Markets

 

[pboyles]

Oh dear, you cant renew online any more and the phones are not being answered.

License Renewal